open carry critical mass?

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In seattle there is a group that hosts a monthly event called "critical mass" where bicyclists ride around town en mass to support each other and assert bicyclists rights.

What do you guys think about getting small groups of people together to walk around to different places, ride the transit system etc to provide a little "exposure therapy" for the public? Could also keep a few flyers on hand. I was thinking maybe 2 or more armed and 1 or more unarmed to act as incognito witnesses.

Part of my rational is when people see two or more people doing something they find odd or disagreeable they are more likely to question themselves and engage in a little introspection. If its just one person here and there its easier to dismiss them.

Comments?

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We already do that with our monthly lunches/dinners/picnics.

The fact that you want to relate us to the violent whackos that make up Critical Mass is more than a little disturbing to me. I'm sure you heard about the man that was attacked by them for honking at them when they blocked his right of way at an intersection. They're lucky he wasn't carrying a firearm, as he could have killed them in justified self-defense. I'm sorry, but if you're breaking my car windows with a bike lock, you're threatening my life and I'll do whatever is necessary to stop the threat.

Edit: oh, and as for walking around, most of us do that on a daily basis already. We go around OC'ing doing our daily activities and not trying to cause a fuss. Many of us just want to have the ability to go armed while we go about our business. Some of us are also into the education aspect of it and find OC a great way for people to think to ask about the laws that they may not have thought to ask about otherwise.

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Thanks for your comments.

I'm new to the area and the forum so I'm not familiar with what you do already. I still think group activities would be beneficial. 20 guys in a diner once a month isnt the same as 20 walking through downtown bellevue at lunch time.

I really shouldn't respond to your coments about criticle mass, since they are off topic. But critical thinking skills are a pet issue for me. Just because there are one or two whackos in a group does not merit dismissal of the entire group. Your comments exactly parallel those of anti-gun people who argue that a school shooting here or a car-jacking there mean we should all be deprived of our handgun rights. Do you support peoples civil rights and liberties or not? Are you sure you are in the right forum?

After giving it more thought you leave me wondering about your character and demenour. Maybe it would be better if you stayed with the diner. I'm not sure anyone wants you representing the OC crowd.

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My, you sure are quick to judge someone from very little information. Not to mention we've (as far as I know) never met.

Even though you said you weren't going to reply to my comment about Critical Mass (which you claim is off topic, even though you put it in your title) you replied anyways. So that being the case, Yes, I do have a problem with the majority of that group, not just the "bad apples". They think it's okay to illegally block intersections to further their agenda. This isn't just the members that attacked the vehicle, that's the whole group. The fact that some of them are violent and that the group, in the media, is related with violence, then bothers me when it's related to us, where we preach non-violence whenever possible.

As for your "2-post-tenure" claiming that no one wants me representing OC... I'd suggest sticking around and seeing how others here feel about that. My guess is your kind of thinking doesn't match well with the majority on these forums. Now, as for attacking my character instead of discussing the issue... go to hell.

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If one carries a gun and acts like the idiots that do critical mass.... I'd expect the police to bring the hurt on pretty good.


correct me if I'm wrong, but being an idiot, blocking traffic, mob intimidation (nothing like surround a car with bicyclists to scare the crap out of the driver of that car), making a scene while armed could very easily be covered by:

"in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons."

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just_a_car wrote:

As for your "2-post-tenure" claiming that no one wants me representing OC... I'd suggest sticking around and seeing how others here feel about that.

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dgosborn@hotmail.com, I know just_a_car and I want him representing OC. You may have a different opinion than him of Critical Mass, but your personal attacks against his character are unwarranted and unwelcome on this board.

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New guy, you have attacked a senior and well respected member. For shame. You'll be lucky to pass probation.

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deanf wrote:

New guy, you have attacked a senior and well respected member. For shame. You'll be lucky to pass probation.

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+1

Couldn't have put it better myself.

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Critical mass better never pull that shit with me about surrounding my car because the gas pedal works. I would take my foot off the brake honk the horn and accelerate as slow as possible....but I would not sit there to have them damage my car or hurt my family....I figure a quadcab pickup would be a fairly effective weapon.

I am sorry but I won't be a victim of those ass%^les who run lights and dart in and out of traffic with no regard for the cars having to take evasive measures to miss them.

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Even when I was logging 3 hrs a day, 4-5 days a week on the bike, I didn't much care for the Critical Mass bunch.
It hasn't gotten any better.
Maybe they'd like to join Greenpeace. Similar tactics.

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dgosborn@hotmail.com wrote:

After giving it more thought you leave me wondering about your character and demenour. Maybe it would be better if you stayed with the diner. I'm not sure anyone wants you representing the OC crowd.

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Dang dude, most new members get a welcome, but I think not in your case.

First off, attacking JAC character is way out of line. I know him and we talk on a regular basis. He is someone I would trust to stand behind me with a loaded weapon, and you have no business attacking his or anyone else's character on this board until you've gotten to know them.

You have an interesting idea, but what purpose does a large group of armed people serve just wandering about with no purpose except to draw attention to themselves in a controversial fashion?

Critical Mass has a bad reputation, and justifiably so. I do not want that sort of attention drawn to the lawful carry of weapons.

Mebbe you need to find a new way to draw attention to yourself. And you owe JAC an apology I would say.

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I hope this guy doesn't open carry... heck, i hope he doesn't carry

With views that abrasive he's likely to shine a bad light on responsible carriers/owners.


Lots of us are a little nutty when it comes to guns, but we respect the right of people to dislike and avoid if they feel like. Much like the guy walking down the street with a cigarette, not going to intentionally blow the smoke in your face (or atleast i won't) There is no hooting and hollering "hey look at me!".

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:uhoh:Sounds like the new guy jusy got gang banged. I respect the people on this forum but give the guy a break.

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Well,JAC is a good guy, I havemet him at our OC meetings.

I understand your enthusiasms to show the local area responsible gun ownership in the method you mentioned, but. The OC meetings are doing the same thing. I have seen plenty of people inquire about our affiliation at these meets, and just yesterday I passed out a pamphletsto a guy that was (Shocked) to see me in B&N with a gun on my hip. So beingalone or at the meetings are getting the word out about OC. One day it may happen that we would travel as a group to a location who knows.

Anywaywelcome to OCDO. Just make things right with JAC. You started off on the wrong foot, It can anddoes happen on any forum one may post on.

Even sometimes here we have strong words one to another, but that's life and most of usget over it, however somewill leave.

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Something important to keep in mind should you choose to attend critical mass and carry:
[/quote]
RCW 9A.84.010
(1) A person is guilty of the crime of riot if, acting with three or more other persons, he or she knowingly and unlawfully uses or threatens to use force, or in any way participates in the use of such force, against any other person or against property.

(2)(a) Except as provided in (b) of this subsection, the crime of riot is a gross misdemeanor.

(b) The crime of riot is a class C felony if the actor is armed with a deadly weapon.[/quote]

So, if one of the other critical mass people engages in force, the lot of you could be put together, and charged with class C felonies for your being armed.

While I support biking a ton, and think many drivers are inconsiderate assholes who don't consider the implications of being behind a deadly weapon on wheels, I have trouble supporting CM. I know what they want to do, but I think they do it in entirely the wrong way (by acting illegally and being inconsiderate bikers). Drivers turn around and point out the ones that act as assholes as justification for how they treat other bikers on the road.

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dgosborn@hotmail.com wrote:

In seattle there is a group that hosts a monthly event called "critical mass" where bicyclists ride around town en mass to support each other and assert bicyclists rights.

What do you guys think about getting small groups of people together to walk around to different places, ride the transit system etc to provide a little "exposure therapy" for the public? Could also keep a few flyers on hand. I was thinking maybe 2 or more armed and 1 or more unarmed to act as incognito witnesses.

Part of my rational is when people see two or more people doing something they find odd or disagreeable they are more likely to question themselves and engage in a little introspection. If its just one person here and there its easier to dismiss them.

Comments?

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He was not saying that we should join CM, or ride like CM. I was just suggesting that we get a small groups of people together to walk around to different places, ride the transit system etc to provide a little "exposure therapy" for the public?

Kind of like everyone meet at the T-Dome and take the bus to Seattle and walk around the waterfront or something before our OC meeting ect.

I think there is a miss understanding in what he was saying.

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Alwayspacking wrote:

dgosborn@hotmail.com wrote:

In seattle there is a group that hosts a monthly event called "critical mass" where bicyclists ride around town en mass to support each other and assert bicyclists rights.

What do you guys think about getting small groups of people together to walk around to different places, ride the transit system etc to provide a little "exposure therapy" for the public? Could also keep a few flyers on hand. I was thinking maybe 2 or more armed and 1 or more unarmed to act as incognito witnesses.

Part of my rational is when people see two or more people doing something they find odd or disagreeable they are more likely to question themselves and engage in a little introspection. If its just one person here and there its easier to dismiss them.

Comments?

Click to expand...

He was not saying that we should join CM, or ride like CM. I was just suggesting that we get a small groups of people together to walk around to different places, ride the transit system etc to provide a little "exposure therapy" for the public?

Kind of like everyone meet at the T-Dome and take the bus to Seattle and walk around the waterfront or something before our OC meeting ect.

I think there is a miss understanding in what he was saying.

Click to expand...

Actually, something like that was done at the Tacoma meet (I missed that one). They attempted to all ride the trolley and had Tacoma PD called on them because the conductor wouldn't allow them to ride. It held up the whole trolley full of people (not just OC group folks) and once TPD showed up, they cleared everyone and told the conductor that all of the OC'ers were allowed to ride.

I understood what he was saying, I just wanted to voice my opinion of not liking being related to CM... I thought I made it pretty apparent that it was my opinion and that I didn't reflect others on here, nor represent them... and that it was that relation to CM, not the OP's ideas, that I had a problem with.

We all make mistakes and text on a screen can be misconstrued or misunderstood. I'm a cordial and amenable gentleman and am more than willing to hear out the OP if there was perhaps a misunderstanding. Only time will tell if such a thing comes to pass or if those will be the OP's only two posts.

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Kind of like everyone meet at the T-Dome and take the bus to Seattle

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Unfortunately, I can't open carry on the bus even on my days off! I asked my Base Supervisor and the Chief of Metro Police and they both thought it would be ok, but then I asked the president of our union and he said he would not reccomend it since the wording of the rule is kind of vague....

"The use, threatened use, or possession of a weapon, concealed, licensed or otherwise, by an employee while in the performance of his/her official duties OR WHILE ON METRO PROPERTY is strictly prohibited, and will result in termination."


If by Metro Property they mean the physical real estate of the bases(including base parking lots) then I would be ok, but if they mean ANY Metro Property that can include the buses, park-n-rides, even the bus shelters...

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just_a_car wrote:

Alwayspacking wrote:

dgosborn@hotmail.com wrote:

In seattle there is a group that hosts a monthly event called "critical mass" where bicyclists ride around town en mass to support each other and assert bicyclists rights.

What do you guys think about getting small groups of people together to walk around to different places, ride the transit system etc to provide a little "exposure therapy" for the public? Could also keep a few flyers on hand. I was thinking maybe 2 or more armed and 1 or more unarmed to act as incognito witnesses.

Part of my rational is when people see two or more people doing something they find odd or disagreeable they are more likely to question themselves and engage in a little introspection. If its just one person here and there its easier to dismiss them.

Comments?

Click to expand...

He was not saying that we should join CM, or ride like CM. I was just suggesting that we get a small groups of people together to walk around to different places, ride the transit system etc to provide a little "exposure therapy" for the public?

Kind of like everyone meet at the T-Dome and take the bus to Seattle and walk around the waterfront or something before our OC meeting ect.

I think there is a miss understanding in what he was saying.

Click to expand...

Actually, something like that was done at the Tacoma meet (I missed that one). They attempted to all ride the trolley and had Tacoma PD called on them because the conductor wouldn't allow them to ride. It held up the whole trolley full of people (not just OC group folks) and once TPD showed up, they cleared everyone and told the conductor that all of the OC'ers were allowed to ride.

I understood what he was saying, I just wanted to voice my opinion of not liking being related to CM... I thought I made it pretty apparent that it was my opinion and that I didn't reflect others on here, nor represent them... and that it was that relation to CM, not the OP's ideas, that I had a problem with.

We all make mistakes and text on a screen can be misconstrued or misunderstood. I'm a cordial and amenable gentleman and am more than willing to hear out the OP if there was perhaps a misunderstanding. Only time will tell if such a thing comes to pass or if those will be the OP's only two posts.

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Yes I remember reading about that even..

Also I understand what you were saying. But i seemed maybe other did not.

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Spaceman Spiff wrote:

:uhoh:Sounds like the new guy jusy got gang banged. I respect the people on this forum but give the guy a break.

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Negative. As already mentioned, the FNG went and attacked a senior member in his second post. You do something like that and all bets are off.