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Thread: Just want to make sure I understand

  1. #1
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    I am going to be visiting family in Ohio this thanksgiving, and I want to be sure I understand the laws correctly.

    I am a kansas resident with a ccw permit. Ohio doesn't have reciprocity with Kansas at this time, so that is moot.

    In Ohio, I can open carry in any county without issue as long as it is not in a posted no carry area. Also, there is no carry whatsoever in restaurants.

    However, when driving around, since I do not have a ohio recognized ccw permit, I have to have my gun unloaded, and no loaded magazines, with the magazines/ammo separate from the gun where I cannot reach the two without exiting the vehicle.

    Now, If this is all accurate, this is a question that i have. My glove box does not lock. Will it still count as a container if I have my gun in there and my ammo/empty magazines in the trunk?

    Furthermore, my car has one of those little crawl throughs in the back seat to reach the trunk (about half a foot wide and 1.5 feet tall. Does that negate it as a seperate part of the vehicle requiring me to get out to get to the ammo?

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    With the new bill that passed, the ammo/gun seperation provision no longer applies, and the unlocked glovebox is ok.

    You still can't have ammo loaded in the mags though.

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    amaenza wrote:
    Also, there is no carry whatsoever in restaurants.
    Incorrect. There is no carry in establishments which serve liquor for on-premise consumption.

    You can carry in a restaurant which is neither posted, nor which has what's called a Class-D liquor license.

    MacDonalds = ok (unless posted)
    Restaurant which serves alcohol = not ok

    I say MacDonalds because the only one in the US I've ever heard of which serves liquor was the headquarters in Oak Brook(?), IL.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    snake021 wrote:
    With the new bill that passed, the ammo/gun seperation provision no longer applies, and the unlocked glovebox is ok.

    You still can't have ammo loaded in the mags though.
    So I can carry for example the unloaded gun in the center compartment or glove box with ammo (unloaded magazines et al) right next to it with no issues?

    Do they require one or the other to be locked up even though they no longer have to be separated?


    Also Dean, in kansas, the rule is that as long as the restaurant doesn't generate over 50% profit from the sale of alcohol, you may carry inside.

    Is the law there similar, or is it just any restaurant that sells alcohol (applebees etc).

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    None of the components has to be locked up specifically, although the police might prefer that you did that. The big sticking point under the new law is that magazines must be unloaded - wherever they are stored in the vehicle - unless you have a recognized carry permit. You should be OK with the setup you describe. Also remember that the police must have cause or permission to perform a search in the first place - soout of sight, out of mind (ideally).

    -ljp

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    I am also curious on this information.

    As a non-resident of OH, I am still legal for Open Carry? (vehicular nonsense notwithstanding -- I'm a Hoosier, so no LCH reciprocation for me as well).

    That's the feeling I'm getting. Ugh, what's the big idea about a loaded magazine in the car? Sounds like it's time to get a big revolver for my forays into OH (my wife is a buckeye and has family there).

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    amaenza wrote:
    snake021 wrote:
    With the new bill that passed, the ammo/gun seperation provision no longer applies, and the unlocked glovebox is ok.

    You still can't have ammo loaded in the mags though.
    So I can carry for example the unloaded gun in the center compartment or glove box with ammo (unloaded magazines et al) right next to it with no issues?

    Do they require one or the other to be locked up even though they no longer have to be separated?

    ...
    What Legba said.

    That was one of the arguing points brought up by LE against the bill, it only takes a second to pop a round into the mag/gun as the LEO walks up to the car, unless they are genuinely "seperated". And as Legba can tell ya, it got some people in trouble before the new bill.

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    amaenza wrote:
    Also Dean, in kansas, the rule is that as long as the restaurant doesn't generate over 50% profit from the sale of alcohol, you may carry inside.

    Is the law there similar, or is it just any restaurant that sells alcohol (applebees etc).

    Any place/premises, that sells any alcohol, for ON SITE consumption.


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    squisher wrote:
    I am also curious on this information.

    As a non-resident of OH, I am still legal for Open Carry? (vehicular nonsense notwithstanding -- I'm a Hoosier, so no LCH reciprocation for me as well).

    That's the feeling I'm getting. Ugh, what's the big idea about a loaded magazine in the car? Sounds like it's time to get a big revolver for my forays into OH (my wife is a buckeye and has family there).
    I thought you were wrong about the IN/OH reciprocation so I went and looked, you're right. Why does IN honor OH, but not the other way, weird.

    A loaded revolver is a loaded weapon.

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    I would recommend contacting the attorneys general of both Kansas and Ohio to try to get them to sign a reciprocity agreement so your Kansas CHL would be valid in Ohio by the time you make your trip. I know Kansas already honors OH CHLs but is apparently waiting for Ohio to return the favor.
    James M. "Jim" Mullins, Jr., Esq.
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    WVCDL wrote:
    I would recommend contacting the attorneys general of both Kansas and Ohio to try to get them to sign a reciprocity agreement so your Kansas CHL would be valid in Ohio by the time you make your trip. I know Kansas already honors OH CHLs but is apparently waiting for Ohio to return the favor.
    Kansas? Did I miss something?



    Edit: Nevermind, I see you're responding to the OP.

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    snake021 wrote:
    squisher wrote:
    I am also curious on this information.

    As a non-resident of OH, I am still legal for Open Carry? (vehicular nonsense notwithstanding -- I'm a Hoosier, so no LCH reciprocation for me as well).

    That's the feeling I'm getting. Ugh, what's the big idea about a loaded magazine in the car? Sounds like it's time to get a big revolver for my forays into OH (my wife is a buckeye and has family there).
    I thought you were wrong about the IN/OH reciprocation so I went and looked, you're right. Why does IN honor OH, but not the other way, weird.

    A loaded revolver is a loaded weapon.
    Revolver so that even if it is unloaded (as required) I don't have to reload a magazine (only have to drop 5/6 into the cylinder -- easier to reload in that situation).

    I think OH's reasoning behind not reciprocating with IN is that in Indiana you just have to fill out the paperwork, where in Ohio you have to take training. Since the requirements are different, OH doesn't honor IN's permit. IN honors any permit (so long as you are not a resident), provided you are acting in accordance with any restrictions on that permit (like, if you have a TX permit which is CC ONLY, you MUST CC, unlike the IN permit that doesn't specify, or if you have an OC ONLY permit, you MUST OC).

    I would love to see recip between all states, but I'm not holding my breath.

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    I think OH's reasoning behind not reciprocating with IN is that in Indiana you just have to fill out the paperwork, where in Ohio you have to take training. Since the requirements are different, OH doesn't honor IN's permit.

    Strangely enough, OH has reciprocity with WA state, which like IN has no required training.

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    Definitely not, see my other post above, the revolver would be because it's still easier to drop 6 in a revolver (even without speedloader, I made the assumption that loaded speedloader = loaded mag ) than it is to stuff 17 into a magazine every time I want to get in and out of a car.

    EDIT: aye ken spel

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    Well, i just emailed the Ohio AG's office to see why the Kansas ccw is not recognized in Ohio while Kansas recognizes Ohio's permit.

    We have an 8 hour training class (mine actually went on for 9 hours which is common to get all information in) as well as a shooting test at various distances with a set accuracy to pass.

    What confuses me even more is that Ohio recognizes Missouri's permit, and Missouri is a lot more lax with it's laws than Kansas is. The only difference in training is that Missouri has to shoot more. The classes are actually the same length.

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    Please note that revolver "speed loaders" are in the same category as magazines and must also be unloaded, for revolver people. As for the "fixation" on loaded magazines, that's what the new law says, like it or not. Get the permit (or one from a state with reciprocity) if you want to transport loaded firearms in Ohio. I've gone to jail over this under the old ambiguous transportation law, and only got my gun back 50 weeks after the initial incident (my car was also vandalized/neglected after getting impounded and was not worth recovering). You do NOT want to go to dozens of hearings in another state, and they will not care that you have to drive 500 miles for these hearings, assuming you make bail at all...

    -ljp

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    Legba wrote:
    Please note that revolver "speed loaders" are in the same category as magazines and must also be unloaded, for revolver people. As for the "fixation" on loaded magazines, that's what the new law says, like it or not. Get the permit (or one from a state with reciprocity) if you want to transport loaded firearms in Ohio. I've gone to jail over this under the old ambiguous transportation law, and only got my gun back 50 weeks after the initial incident (my car was also vandalized/neglected after getting impounded and was not worth recovering). You do NOT want to go to dozens of hearings in another state, and they will not care that you have to drive 500 miles for these hearings, assuming you make bail at all...

    -ljp
    I was making that assumption, but it is also nice to have some confirmation. Transport laws aside, non-licensed, non-resident OC is technically legal then? I just want to be absolutely clear (Odds are I'll still leave the guns at home when I go to OH just to keep things simpler until I can get a non-res FL permit or something).

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    Well, it's not illegal, so it's legal - "technically" or otherwise. There's no residency requirement, in any case. That said, and depending on the particular jurisdiction, the police may well take an interest in what you're up to. People certainly have been taken into custody in spite of their rights (Dan Sayers, myself, et al...). Could you beat it in court? Probably, unless you're drunk or on probation or committing some other crime at the same time. You have to decide for yourself what the potential risks and benefits are. I advocate for the right to do so, but theory and practice are not the same thing.

    -ljp

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    amaenza wrote:
    Well, i just emailed the Ohio AG's office to see why the Kansas ccw is not recognized in Ohio while Kansas recognizes Ohio's permit.

    We have an 8 hour training class (mine actually went on for 9 hours which is common to get all information in) as well as a shooting test at various distances with a set accuracy to pass.

    What confuses me even more is that Ohio recognizes Missouri's permit, and Missouri is a lot more lax with it's laws than Kansas is. The only difference in training is that Missouri has to shoot more. The classes are actually the same length.
    Strangely enough, OH has reciprocity with WA state, which has no required training.

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    Maybe the respective attorneys-general went to the same law school. Who knows how these things get done. As I understand it, Ohio requires 12 hours of instruction, but that includes range time (10 and 2? I forget), so I'm surprised they (we) recognize the "lower" standard. Then again, the actual material they cover in the class here would take a clever person with some gun background about 45 minutes to assimilate, so maybe they're just recognizing the redundancy.

    -ljp

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    I've always read that Ohio is Open Carry. However, I sat down with my sheriff recently and was told that I would likely be charged with disorderly conduct because I'd cause people to panic (by exercising my right).

    Having said that, could someone please provide a link to the law that the OP'r (ameneza) could carry with them while in Ohio?

    I'd like to send a copy to my local sheriff (as he's running for re-election).

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    2917.11 disorderly conduct and 2917.31 inducing panic require a crime to be committed. Open carrying and walking down the street is not illegal. This sheriff should be removed from office.

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    2917.11 Disorderly conduct.

    (A) No person shall recklessly cause inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm to another by doing any of the following...5) Creating a condition that is physically offensive to persons or that presents a risk of physical harm to persons or property, by any act that serves no lawful and reasonable purpose of the offender.

    Self defense would probably qualify as reasonable.

    2917.31 Inducing panic.

    (A) No person shall cause the evacuation of any public place, or otherwise cause serious public inconvenience or alarm, by doing any of the following:

    (2) Threatening to commit any offense of violence;

    (3) Committing any offense, with reckless disregard of the likelihood that its commission will cause serious public inconvenience or alarm.

    No threat?

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    Tell the Sheriff to read the AG's new handbook on concealed carry laws, the one he supposed to have. Page 18, I think.



    Edit:

    http://ag.state.oh.us/le/prevention/...8_ccw_book.pdf

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    I just caught this thread so hopefully the OP and the chap from Indiana read it in time. For the both of you, you may consider pursuing a Virginia CHP (concealed handgun permit) which is offered for non-residents and is given reciprocity by Ohio for both VA resident and non-resident permits (this won't buy you anything in MI or WV, but it works for OH). Virginia has about a half dozen different ways to meet your firearms training requirements including a firearms safety course taught by an NRA certified instructor or a hunter's education course which included safe handling of firearms. The maximum cost set by the state is $50 and the state has a maximum of 45 days from the receipt of the properly filled out application to approve your CHP. Since non-residents go through the VA State Police my hunch is that you'll have it long before. Mine which went through the local judge took about 2.5 weeks.

    http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms.shtm

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