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Thread: Asked to leave Wal-Mart

  1. #1
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    So, I decided to go to Wal-Mart to buy some 00 buckshot for my shotgun. I have a CHL and I was carrying my G27; Openly and loaded in my new Serpa holster on my strong side, with a loaded spare magazine on my weak side in a pouch.

    Went in the store, greeter greeted me with a smile, etc. Looked at some clothes, then walked over to Sporting Goods and looked at ammo but they didn't have any 00 buckshot. On the way out, I stopped to look at candy bars near the electronics section. At that time, at least 2 Wal-Mart employees came up to me (could have been more obscured by the merchandise).

    Guy with glasses: "Um, sir, is that uhhhhh legit?" (referring to my pistol)
    Me: "Yes" (Not sure what he was asking exactly, but since I was sure EVERYTHING about my pistol is legit, I answered in the affirmative).
    Guy with glasses: "Can I ask you to leave?"
    Me: "Sure. I didn't see a sign on your store so I didn't know it was against store policy."
    Guy with glasses: "It's actually Oregon state law."
    Me: "OK?"

    Then I left. I know the law, but I wasn't going to argue with the guy, especially since being asked to leave private property pre-empts all the other laws anyway.

    On the way home I called the store and asked to speak with the general manager. Managers, I've learned, are a revolving door, and there is nobody actually responsible for the whole store at any given time, so names are pointless to take down. So I got a hold of a manager and he had the following interesting things to tell me:

    * He wasn't sure if it was store policy, corporate policy, or Easport Plaza policy, but he was sure it was against some policy, because the Wal-Mart he worked at before had the same policy, so he was pretty sure it was corporate policy.
    * The cameras were following me the entire time I was in the store, lots of customers were complaining, the walkie-talkies were all abuzz with my every movement, and people were scared because I was looking at ammo (which is ironic because I was carrying a loaded pistol, and a spare magazine full of ammo, in plain sight...not to mention I would have bought 00 buckshot, which as far as I know, can't be chambered in my pistol, or ANY pistol for that matter).
    * He did thank me for leaving when asked to do so. I told him regardless of the gun laws, with which I was in full compliance, as soon as I am asked to leave private property I am obliged to do so under law. He then said he was interested in finding out where the policy came from (possibly realizing that it's possible no such policy actually exists?) and that he was going to look into it.

    So, I plan on writing a letter to Wal-Mart asking them to clarify their policy, and, if one exists banning weapons, to please place a warning clearly on all entrances to avoid further situations such as this, or, if there is no such policy, to train their employees in store policy so they don't drive out their customers for no reason. Also, maybe inform all employees of Wal-Mart that they are (I'm assuming) neither lawyers nor police officers.


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    machron1 wrote:
    So, I decided to go to Wal-Mart to buy some 00 buckshot for my shotgun. I have a CHL and I was carrying my G27; Openly and loaded in my new Serpa holster on my strong side, with a loaded spare magazine on my weak side in a pouch.

    Went in the store, greeter greeted me with a smile, etc. Looked at some clothes, then walked over to Sporting Goods and looked at ammo but they didn't have any 00 buckshot. On the way out, I stopped to look at candy bars near the electronics section. At that time, at least 2 Wal-Mart employees came up to me (could have been more obscured by the merchandise).

    Guy with glasses: "Um, sir, is that uhhhhh legit?" (referring to my pistol)
    Me: "Yes" (Not sure what he was asking exactly, but since I was sure EVERYTHING about my pistol is legit, I answered in the affirmative).
    Guy with glasses: "Can I ask you to leave?"
    OK, but I might have respondeddifferently. Maybe somthing like: "Are you speaking for WalMart in telling me to leave or just chit chatting, cause' I'm 'bout ready to check out."

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    Mike wrote:
    machron1 wrote:
    So, I decided to go to Wal-Mart to buy some 00 buckshot for my shotgun. I have a CHL and I was carrying my G27; Openly and loaded in my new Serpa holster on my strong side, with a loaded spare magazine on my weak side in a pouch.

    Went in the store, greeter greeted me with a smile, etc. Looked at some clothes, then walked over to Sporting Goods and looked at ammo but they didn't have any 00 buckshot. On the way out, I stopped to look at candy bars near the electronics section. At that time, at least 2 Wal-Mart employees came up to me (could have been more obscured by the merchandise).

    Guy with glasses: "Um, sir, is that uhhhhh legit?" (referring to my pistol)
    Me: "Yes" (Not sure what he was asking exactly, but since I was sure EVERYTHING about my pistol is legit, I answered in the affirmative).
    Guy with glasses: "Can I ask you to leave?"
    OK, but I might have respondeddifferently. Maybe somthing like: "Are you speaking for WalMart in telling me to leave or just chit chatting, cause' I'm 'bout ready to check out."
    I was fairly certain he was telling me to leave as forcefully as he dared in the face of what he perceived to be a possible threat (even though I actually posed no threat). That's why I immediately complied and left. Given the length of time I was there, and the fact that more than one person came up to me at the same time, I figured the person talking to me was explaining the "official" opinion of the store (as decided by the people in charge at the time anyway). It just means there is lots of work left to do. And if we can get open carry accepted on 82nd Ave, I think we can do it anywhere!

    We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.
    -Jonh F. Kennedy


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    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...hlight=walmart

    This is a recent Walmart thread in Virginia.

    quote:

    After about 5 minutes the asst. manager came over and I introduced myself and shook her hand. She said it was policy not to let guns be carried in the store. I asked if it was the store’s policy to not follow corporate policy. I then informed her (politely) that corporate policy is to conform to the state laws. In this case, because OC is legal in VA, OC is fine in their stores. She asked if I minded if she looked it up. I asked her to please do and I followed her to a terminal. While she searched, she remarked that no one had asked me to leave. I agreed, but did say that the contacting associate asked me not bring the gun next time. She actually had the “deer in the headlights :shock:” look, though very briefly. She found the policy on employees, then she was paged to the phone. She talked to a general manager from one of the local stores, who informed her of “the policy”. She returned and said that I was correct, but (no, no, not a but!) there are customers >with children< who do not feel comfortable with another customer carrying a gun.:what: My reply: “Yes, they need to be educated on the difference between a real threat to their children and a person who would act to protect them. Bad guys don’t open carry.” You could see the light come on over her head and several of the gaggle of associates who had gathered around, were grinning.


    end-quote

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    machron1 wrote:
    So, I decided to go to Wal-Mart to buy some 00 buckshot for my shotgun. I have a CHL and I was carrying my G27; Openly and loaded in my new Serpa holster on my strong side, with a loaded spare magazine on my weak side in a pouch.

    Went in the store, greeter greeted me with a smile, etc. Looked at some clothes, then walked over to Sporting Goods and looked at ammo but they didn't have any 00 buckshot. On the way out, I stopped to look at candy bars near the electronics section. At that time, at least 2 Wal-Mart employees came up to me (could have been more obscured by the merchandise).

    Guy with glasses: "Um, sir, is that uhhhhh legit?" (referring to my pistol)
    Me: "Yes" (Not sure what he was asking exactly, but since I was sure EVERYTHING about my pistol is legit, I answered in the affirmative).
    Guy with glasses: "Can I ask you to leave?"
    Me: "Sure. I didn't see a sign on your store so I didn't know it was against store policy."
    Guy with glasses: "It's actually Oregon state law."
    Me: "OK?"

    Then I left. I know the law, but I wasn't going to argue with the guy, especially since being asked to leave private property pre-empts all the other laws anyway.

    On the way home I called the store and asked to speak with the general manager. Managers, I've learned, are a revolving door, and there is nobody actually responsible for the whole store at any given time, so names are pointless to take down. So I got a hold of a manager and he had the following interesting things to tell me:

    * He wasn't sure if it was store policy, corporate policy, or Easport Plaza policy, but he was sure it was against some policy, because the Wal-Mart he worked at before had the same policy, so he was pretty sure it was corporate policy.
    * The cameras were following me the entire time I was in the store, lots of customers were complaining, the walkie-talkies were all abuzz with my every movement, and people were scared because I was looking at ammo (which is ironic because I was carrying a loaded pistol, and a spare magazine full of ammo, in plain sight...not to mention I would have bought 00 buckshot, which as far as I know, can't be chambered in my pistol, or ANY pistol for that matter).
    * He did thank me for leaving when asked to do so. I told him regardless of the gun laws, with which I was in full compliance, as soon as I am asked to leave private property I am obliged to do so under law. He then said he was interested in finding out where the policy came from (possibly realizing that it's possible no such policy actually exists?) and that he was going to look into it.

    So, I plan on writing a letter to Wal-Mart asking them to clarify their policy, and, if one exists banning weapons, to please place a warning clearly on all entrances to avoid further situations such as this, or, if there is no such policy, to train their employees in store policy so they don't drive out their customers for no reason. Also, maybe inform all employees of Wal-Mart that they are (I'm assuming) neither lawyers nor police officers.
    It is not Walmart policy to deny a person the right to carry a firearm. The corporate policy of Walmart is to follow state law. If open carry is legal in Oregon, then Walmart's policy is to always abide by state law.

    an employee of walmart--a normal, every day average walmart worker is not able to speak for management. It takes a salaried member of management in order to order you out off of the store and off of the property. At least this is my understanding of it.

    My advice to you is to contact corporate headquarters at 1800walmart and explain to them what happened, and tell them that if their policy is to deny a person the right to bear arms in accordance with the Constitution and of the laws of Oregon then you will take your business elsewhere--Walmart absolutely HATES to lose business. Explain to them that you would like an explanation as to why their store management is not aware of walmart policy as well, and you want to know why you were asked to leave their building while you were in the middle of shopping simply because you were not only exercising a Constiutionally protected right, but also were well within the laws of your state, and because you were taking a proactive approach to protecting and securing your person from violent criminals....

    As I said--it is the policy of walmart to FOLLOW state laws....if a state allows the possession of a firearm--concealed or open, then walmart policy is to follow the laws of the state wherein each store resides...

    just my 2 cents.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    My wife andI both OC at the local Wally World (Marana AZ) the few times we go... No problem.

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    No problems at the WW at 7100 Speedway (Tucson) either. Heck, once I bought about 500 rds. of WWB .45 ACP, 100 rounds of 12 ga. slugs and a box of .22 LR while wearing my PT1911. The clerk just asked how well it shot.



    Edit: Oops, Machron1, sorry about the thread hijack. Long story short, it ain't illegal, your store staff is misinformed and needs to contact Corporate Headquarters for the company policy. Or you can call and inform them of your issue. They usually respond fairly well.

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    Does any one know the policy number? That would probably make it a lot easier for the management to look it up, and if they can't find it and call corporate, easier for them to look it up.

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    DenWin wrote:
    Does any one know the policy number? That would probably make it a lot easier for the management to look it up, and if they can't find it and call corporate, easier for them to look it up.
    There are numerous threads right now on Walmart and their gun policy. As you will see if you choose to look throught them you will find that Walmart is NOT providing a written policy on weapons. It has been common knowledge that Walmart followed state law on weapons carry ( I have yet to have an issue in 5 states that I have visited).

    See this thread from Idaho:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum20/13152-2.html

    Here is the corp contact info. You should also send a copy of every letter you guys send to the store itself. Good luck.

    Customer Service1-800-Wal-Mart
    (1-800-925-6278)Questions regarding a Wal-Mart Store issue
    702 SW 8th Street
    Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.
    Bentonville, Arkansas 72716-8611





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    We have heard back from Walmart Corporate several times regarding this matter. Walmart policy prevents all employees from carrying, which they then translate to "no one else can carry either". Most of the time if you request to see a GENERAL or STORE manager, they know the policy top to bottom and will ask the other employees to stop hassling you. The other members of management are, for the most part, entirely ignorant as to what they should do.

    A complete story in detail can be found here:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum20/15467.html

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    OK so, I finally had a talk with a manager who knows what they are talking about. He said it's perfectly within my rights to carry my gun so long as its legal, and it's perfectly within the policy of the store to do so as well.

    That said, if I'm "disrupting business" for any reason, scaring the customers because of their irrational fear of inanimate objects, etc. and they complain, I'll be asked to leave the store again, after which I'm free to go put my gun in my car and continue shopping, or find another place to take my business.

    This is one of the few Wal-Mart stores that does not sell guns, and their selection of ammo is extremely limited. It is in a high-crime area of Portland, and the residents I'm assuming are accustom to martial law, so I think a lot more people's attitude about guns in general in that area need to change before I can enjoy a nice uneventful stroll through this particular Wal-Mart without an incident.

    On the plus side, I ended up deciding against going there ever again, and bought ammo at Outdoor Warehouse openly carrying, and nobody said so much as a word. I even bought more personal defense ammo for the gun I was carrying at the time!

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    machron1 wrote:
    That said, if I'm "disrupting business" for any reason, scaring the customers because of their irrational fear of inanimate objects, etc. and they complain, I'll be asked to leave the store again, after which I'm free to go put my gun in my car and continue shopping, or find another place to take my business.
    Just tell them that every woman in the store with a purse is scaring you because you think they have a purse bomb and you would like the store to ask them all to leave. It is the same rational.

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    Cremator75 wrote:
    machron1 wrote:
    That said, if I'm "disrupting business" for any reason, scaring the customers because of their irrational fear of inanimate objects, etc. and they complain, I'll be asked to leave the store again, after which I'm free to go put my gun in my car and continue shopping, or find another place to take my business.
    Just tell them that every woman in the store with a purse is scaring you because you think they have a purse bomb and you would like the store to ask them all to leave. It is the same rational.
    Why stop there? Concealed Carry is legal in Oregon if you have a permit, so I should just report everyone I see, because they might be hiding a gun!

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    machron1 wrote:
    So, I decided to go to Wal-Mart to buy some 00 buckshot for my shotgun. I have a CHL and I was carrying my G27; Openly and loaded in my new Serpa holster on my strong side, with a loaded spare magazine on my weak side in a pouch.
    Hello,

    There is a MAJOR problem with what you have said as the lawwithin the state of Oregon, saysyou are not allowed to "Open Carry" once you have obtained a CHL so in fact you were breaking the law.

    There has been some attempts to get rid of the stipulation so that someone with a CHL can openly carry...

    Your can read about it at this source... http://oregonfirearms.orgthese guys are Oregon's best resource for our rights

    I know! It is a lame law, but it is in fact a law. As law abiding citizens we need to be aware that if we are open carry and have a CHL... and Joe Walmart calls the cops on we will get cited or possibly arrested and that would add to the hype and hysteria that we encounter... Lets not give them the chance to make us look bad



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    Please enlighten us with this law that prevents you from open carrying once you have obtain a concealed weapons permit.

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    SPLAT wrote:
    machron1 wrote:
    So, I decided to go to Wal-Mart to buy some 00 buckshot for my shotgun. I have a CHL and I was carrying my G27; Openly and loaded in my new Serpa holster on my strong side, with a loaded spare magazine on my weak side in a pouch.
    There is a MAJOR problem with what you have said as the lawwithin the state of Oregon, saysyou are not allowed to "Open Carry" once you have obtained a CHL so in fact you were breaking the law.

    There has been some attempts to get rid of the stipulation so that someone with a CHL can openly carry...

    Your can read about it at this source... http://oregonfirearms.orgthese guys are Oregon's best resource for our rights

    I know! It is a lame law, but it is in fact a law. As law abiding citizens we need to be aware that if we are open carry and have a CHL... and Joe Walmart calls the cops on we will get cited or possibly arrested and that would add to the hype and hysteria that we encounter... Lets not give them the chance to make us look bad


    SPLAT - thereindeed IS amajor problem here... there is no such law in Oregon.

    And I am 99% sure you did not read that on ofa. If you did, please go back and re-read what you think you read. If you still think it says that please post the link here so we can all be educated.

    It actually sounds like one of the "wrong" pieces of information passed out by a county sheriff with a permit.

    -adamsesq


    ETA: Taken right off OFA's website (http://oregonfirearms.org/faq/). Hopefully SPLAT this is a misunderstanding on your part, and this is not a troll:

    Hi.
    I have taken the firearms class to get my CCW permit. Pics and fingerprints too.
    My instructor mentioned in passing that once one recieves their permit, one looses the right to carry openly.
    I asked for information where I might find documentation supporting that statement. He was unable togive me any info on that. I asked the lady at the Sheriffs office if
    she might know, but she was unaware of any law or regulation pertaining to that question.
    I was wondering if you were aware of anything to that effect.
    Thanks.
    Sincerely,
    Kim


    Kimberley,
    The answer is no. You give up no right to carry openly when you get a CHL.
    .


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    You also mentioned you were in Portland...

    Portland, Beaverton, Tigard, Oregon City, Salem, and Independence have passed loaded firearms bans encompassing all public places. However CHL owners are exempt.

    I think you need to get a grip on the laws before you go brandishing your metal!



    I have a CHL and my wife and I are the only two that know we are packing (and yes she has a CHL). I have had a couple of the local Police notice the lump above my belt and most of them don't take a second look... one asked if I was "On The Job?" and to that I just told him "No" and we parted ways. I have never had anyone have an issue cuz I follow the law. In addition since I have a CHL I have the right to carry in places that open Carry is banned according to Oregon State Law... but that is another topic



    Have a good one and do the right thing

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    SPLAT wrote:
    ...In addition since I have a CHL I have the right to carry in places that open Carry is banned according to Oregon State Law... but that is another topic
    Again, please cite the law. According to the rules on this board assertions are to be backed up with the appropriatesupport/cite.

    I can think of no place in Oregon that you can CCW with your permit that you cannot Open Carry.There are some places that you cannot OC a loaded weapon without a CCW permit, but nowhere that you cannot OC and you can CCW. Yes, there are some places that it might not be smart to OC, butnot illegal.

    -adamsesq


  19. #19
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    SPLAT wrote:
    You also mentioned you were in Portland...

    Portland, Beaverton, Tigard, Oregon City, Salem, and Independence have passed loaded firearms bans encompassing all public places. However CHL owners are exempt.

    I think you need to get a grip on the laws before you go brandishing your metal!



    I have a CHL and my wife and I are the only two that know we are packing (and yes she has a CHL). I have had a couple of the local Police notice the lump above my belt and most of them don't take a second look... one asked if I was "On The Job?" and to that I just told him "No" and we parted ways. I have never had anyone have an issue cuz I follow the law. In addition since I have a CHL I have the right to carry in places that open Carry is banned according to Oregon State Law... but that is another topic



    Have a good one and do the right thing
    First, SPLAT,welcome to ODCO!

    Second, if you're going to claim a law exists, you need to cite what the actual law is.

    It appears you haven't actually studied Oregon state law (listening to a misguided handgun class instructor or a police officer that "knows" the law isn't studying), or you would know that:

    A. Open Carry is LEGAL for law-abiding citizens in most of the state without a CHL, and
    B.OC or CC is legal almost everywhere WITH a CHL. (only exceptions are federal property, and circuit court and above), and
    C. The ONLY thing cities and counties can regulate in regards to firearms use or posession is where LOADED firearms may be carried in public. This means that a law-abiding citizen can legally OC an UNLOADED firearm in any of the cities you mentioned, and CHL holders are exempt from any such restriction for OC or CC.

    So, here's your first reference, Oregon Revised Statutes Chapter 166. It contains almost all of the Oregon firearms laws:
    http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/166.html

    Now please tell us the specific Oregon law that says OC is illegal, or at least tell us who fed you the baloney, cuz that person needs educatin'!

    ...BTW, Open Carry is NOT Brandishing, either!...
    ...Orygunner...

    ...PS... I Am Not A Lawyer!...

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    Splat, where'd you go? Let's keep this discussion and education for all going. What info do you have and from what sources did it come?

    -adamsesq

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    Mike wrote:
    machron1 wrote:
    So, I decided to go to Wal-Mart to buy some 00 buckshot for my shotgun. I have a CHL and I was carrying my G27; Openly and loaded in my new Serpa holster on my strong side, with a loaded spare magazine on my weak side in a pouch.
    Well, good thing it wasn't a Purple Parrot--here in southern Oregon, you get attacked by UPS guys if you go into one of them with a loaded gun!

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    Fred Kenpo wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    machron1 wrote:
    So, I decided to go to Wal-Mart to buy some 00 buckshot for my shotgun. I have a CHL and I was carrying my G27; Openly and loaded in my new Serpa holster on my strong side, with a loaded spare magazine on my weak side in a pouch.
    Well, good thing it wasn't a Purple Parrot--here in southern Oregon, you get attacked by UPS guys if you go into one of them with a loaded gun!
    The MAJOR difference between the two is machron is a law abiding citizen going about his legal way. The incident you are refering is a repeat offender in the act of robbing a store where two off duty UPS employees took action and subdued him. Big difference there..

    I admit the humor in getting 'delievered' to LE by UPS drivers.. hehe

    http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs...NEWS/811200329

  23. #23
    Regular Member Fallschirmjger's Avatar
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    Not my state but I was reading this with interest since it pertains to OC and stores.
    It's been a full week now, where is Splat to defend his position?


  24. #24
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    Fallschirmjäger wrote:
    Not my state but I was reading this with interest since it pertains to OC and stores.
    It's been a full week now, where is Splat to defend his position?

    Well see, this way you will be prepared if ya come visit.. and I don't think Splat wants to play anymore.. oh well..

    J


    p.s.Fallschirmjager.. just because planes got doors.. don't mean ya gotta jump outta them..

    Frohe Weihnachten!

    Prosit Neujahr!


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