Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: 49 USC 46505, Traveling with "dangerous weapons"

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Virginia USA, ,
    Posts
    1,688

    Post imported post

    I saw this sign today flying and it sparked an interest - notice the language "concealed"



    So, Here is the text of the law

    (a) Definition. - In this section, "loaded firearm" means a starter gun or a weapon designed or converted to expel a projectile through an explosive, that has a cartridge, a detonator, or powder in the chamber, magazine, cylinder, or clip. (b) General Criminal Penalty. - An individual shall be fined under title 18, imprisoned for not more than 10 years, or both, if the individual - (1) when on, or attempting to get on, an aircraft in, or intended for operation in, air transportation or intrastate air transportation, has on or about the individual or the property of the individual a concealed dangerous weapon that is or would be accessible to the individual in flight; (2) has placed, attempted to place, or attempted to have placed a loaded firearm on that aircraft in property not accessible to passengers in flight; or (3) has on or about the individual, or has placed, attempted to place, or attempted to have placed on that aircraft, an explosive or incendiary device. (c) Criminal Penalty Involving Disregard for Human Life. - An individual who willfully and without regard for the safety of human life, or with reckless disregard for the safety of human life, violates subsection (b) of this section, shall be fined under title 18, imprisoned for not more than 20 years, or both, and, if death results to any person, shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life. (d) Nonapplication. - Subsection (b)(1) of this section does not apply to - (1) a law enforcement officer of a State or political subdivision of a State, or an officer or employee of the United States Government, authorized to carry arms in an official capacity; (2) another individual the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration or the Under Secretary of Transportation for Security by regulation authorizes to carry a dangerous weapon in air transportation or intrastate air transportation; or (3) an individual transporting a weapon (except a loaded firearm) in baggage not accessible to a passenger in flight if the air carrier was informed of the presence of the weapon. (e) Conspiracy. - If two or more persons conspire to violate subsection (b) or (c), and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each of the parties to such conspiracy shall be punished as provided in such subsection.
    Quite interesting, it only "applies" to concealed firearms from what I can read?

    Not that I am going to try to OC a firearm on to a plane (I don't have the money or time to be a test case ), but isn't this an obvious "loop hole" in the language of the law?

    Is there more that I am missing somewhere? Now my schooling breaks down the "or" clauses of "when on, or attempting to get on, an aircraft in, or intended for operation in, air transportation or intrastate air transportation, has on or about the individual or the property of the individual a concealed dangerous weapon that is or would be accessible to the individual in flight;" to say that all statements are tied directly to the "concealed" clause

    What am I missing



  2. #2
    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Herndon, VA & Martinsville, VA
    Posts
    1,448

    Post imported post

    It says "weapon on your person" Good try though

  3. #3
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,448

    Post imported post

    CRF250rider1000 wrote:
    It says "weapon on your person" Good try though
    You might want to re-read that. I see "concealed dangerous weapon." Don't see "on your person" anywhere.

    Seems like the OP has a point. But alas, I also will not be the test case. WIll keep this in mind in case somebody does this, so I can forward it to their attorney.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Mechanicsville, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    269

    Post imported post

    HSMITH,

    There are certain limited exceptions for law enforcement officers who may fly armed by meeting the requirements of Title 49 CFR ยง 1544.219. Law enforcement officers should read our policies on traveling with guns.

    The key regulatory requirements to transporting firearms, firearm parts or ammunition in checked baggage are:

    • You must declare all firearms to the airline during the ticket counter check-in process.
    • The firearm must be unloaded.
    • The firearm must be in a hard-sided container.
    • The container must be locked. A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from access by anyone other than you. Cases that can be pulled open with little effort do not meet this criterion. The pictures provided here illustrate the difference between a properly packaged and an improperly packaged firearm.
    • We recommend that you provide the key or combination to the security officer if he or she needs to open the container. You should remain present during screening to take the key back after the container is cleared. If you are not present and the security officer must open the container, we or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact you. If we can't contact you, the container will not be placed on the plane. Federal regulations prohibit unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) on aircraft.
    • You must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
    • You can't use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).
    • You may carry the ammunition in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as you pack it as described above.
    • You can't bring black powder or percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms in either your carry-on or checked baggage.

    We and other authorities strictly enforce these regulations. Violations can result in criminal prosecution and civil penalties of up to $10,000 per violation.
    Airlines may have their own additional requirements on the carriage of firearms and the amount of ammunition that you may have in your checked baggage. Therefore, travelers should also contact the airline regarding its firearm and ammunition carriage policies

    Additional cite from TSA.gov

    I understand about what your getting at with the wording, but as you also said " I don't have the money or time to be a test case". CFR 49 used to be less stringant, however we all know what transpired to change this. Responcibility was transfered to the TSA for all secure areas of airports. I am not an expert on this, however I have worked at an airport and am currently taking classes at an aviation university and have gone over this in class.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Mechanicsville, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    269

    Post imported post

    First and formost you must:
    [*]You must declare all firearms to the airline during the ticket counter check-in process.
    If you enter the secure area with a fireameit MUST be concealed since you didn't declare it, otherwise it would have been checked. (Theoretical)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •