Can Cops sit at a church?

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hometheaterman wrote:

Are there any laws saying a police officer can't run radar on private property? Anything the church can do about this guy?

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No, no such law. I have sat on church property working radar in the past many times at a trouble spot. It was either this or sit on somebody's front lawn. You need to understand that the church itself doesn't want people running 50 mph or 60 mph in a 35 mph zone back and forth in front of their church.

Furthermore, I doubt any church would ask any police officer to not come onto their property. Especially with so many churches nationwide being vandalized and burned down.

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richarcm wrote:

67GT390FB wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

Correct!! This is not OC related and should not be here.

PM Sent to answer this

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well technically the officerwould beOC'ing so it is OC related.:lol:

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Each state (Virginia) should have an 'Anything Goes' type forum just like the main page. Issues like these, although not technically OC related, do question Constitutionality and more specifically private property rights and the limits of power of local law enforcement.

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That's what I like about Glock Talk there are tons of different discussions. As for the topic at hand I would.
Send a letter on church letter head asking them not to violate your property rights
If they don't stop take a picture evertime they park there and after a week or so send the pictures along with a copy of the letter you sent to every media outlet there is, local and national.
Or every time he's there call in a man with a gun to the police.

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GLENGLOCKER wrote:

That's what I like about Glock Talk there are tons of different discussions. As for the topic at hand I would.

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We have a "whatever" forum/message boardon our company website that hardly sees any traffic.......ya can't win I tell ya!

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I would venture to say the courts would view a parking lot as private/public as well. In general, anyone is considered able to use a parking lot unless otherwise notified. The same would apply to a police officer. Of course, once proper notification is done to the police station and/or the parking lot is marked as off-limits to anyone except church personnel/parishioners, then you'd have an argument.

As noted though, most churches and businesses don't like to schoo away the police.

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Just put one of those signs with moveable lettering at each end of the parking lot:

[align=center]RADAR COP[/align]
[align=center]NOT[/align]
[align=center]COLLECTING FOR CHURCH[/align]
[align=left]That should solve several problems at once. [/align]

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Sheriff wrote:

hometheaterman wrote:

Are there any laws saying a police officer can't run radar on private property? Anything the church can do about this guy?

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No, no such law. I have sat on church property working radar in the past many times at a trouble spot. It was either this or sit on somebody's front lawn. You need to understand that the church itself doesn't want people running 50 mph or 60 mph in a 35 mph zone back and forth in front of their church.

Furthermore, I doubt any church would ask any police officer to not come onto their property. Especially with so many churches nationwide being vandalized and burned down.

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But Sheriff - thistopic wasstarted by a member giving a specific example of his mothers church in Virginia that had already spoken to the local Sheriff asking that police not run radar on church property, and the Sheriff agreed.

I already understood that there is no rule forbidding police fromrunning radaron churchproperty. And I agree that many (most?) churches wouldwelcome yourpresenceat certain times, for the reasons you outlined (although perhaps not during services). But are you saying that if an individual with constructive control of achurch asked an officer not investigating a specific crime to leave, hissuperiors would back him up if he had the audacity to refuse?

*** - I am a life-long Quaker andmy experience suggeststhatmost Quaker meeting houses - as a matter of principle - will not allow you to run radar fromtheir property. You would possibly be nicely asked to leave - and if you refused, youmight start a battle you would quickly lose****

*** What provokes an emotional response in me is your assertion that we "need to understand" that "the church itself doesn't want people ... (speeding)". No one - and especially not a law enforcement officer as anagent of the state - should presume to tell anyone what "the church itself... want(s)". The factthat you assert that what "the church" wants is conveniently exactly what you want is suspect.

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[align=center]WE FORGIVE![/align]
[align=center]THE RADAR COP DOES NOT[/align]
[align=center]WATCH YOUR SPEED[/align]

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[align=center]SEE THE LADIES AUXILIARY[/align]
[align=center]FOR DONUTS TO BRIBE[/align]
[align=center]THE RADAR COP[/align]

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I can see a lock coming to this thread.

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There could be an OC component because Virginia law prohibits carry a firearm onto the property of any place of worship unless for a good reason. I can't recall specific law, but it is on the books. I'm not aware of an exception for cops, but a cop sitting on church property without permission and waiting for a speeder is someone who is carrying a weapon on church property for no reason.

It does unfortunately make it appear that the church endorses speed traps when there'sa cop sitting on its property. If speeding is an issue, then the sign that reads out your speed as you approach it is very helpful in slowing traffic that's moving at dangerous speeds.

The thing about speed traps to remember is that the cops necessarily have to use traps -- if there's a speeding problem without a sneaky place for the cop to hide, then there will be slower traffic and no tickets.

I was caught once on a slight downhill where the wide road was lined with those high concrete noise walls, so the road had the look and feel of a real highway. Other traps aren't so bad though. Sometimes they get people crestinga hill but after a long strait-away with no turns.

:dude:

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matt605 wrote:

There could be an OC component because Virginia law prohibits carry a firearm onto the property of any place of worship unless for a good reason. I can't recall specific law, but it is on the books. I'm not aware of an exception for cops, but a cop sitting on church property without permission and waiting for a speeder is someone who is carrying a weapon on church property for no reason.

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well now, that's creative

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SicSemperTyrannis wrote:

But Sheriff - thistopic wasstarted by a member giving a specific example of his mothers church in Virginia that had already spoken to the local Sheriff asking that police not run radar on church property, and the Sheriff agreed.

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The original poster said.... "....and is upsetting the people of the church as they say it looks bad which I tend to agree. One of them already said they talked to the Sheriffs department and they said they would take care of it."

I think there's a lot more to this story than is being told. There's at least two sides to this story at worst. Perhaps the original poster's family member, friendor mother got a speeding ticket? Maybe the original poster is looking for a defense for whoever gota speeding ticket? Everything on the Internet is not always as it appears.

And Isuspect the Sheriff wasn't overwhelmingly impressed or swayed by "the people of the church" filing the complaint. I don't see any mention of anybody such as a minister,pastor, Board of Trustees, or ExecutiveCommitteecomplaining.

I guess another issue I would question is why anybody thinks it looks bad on the church's behalf.

This is one of those questions where no majority will ever agree on a definitive answer I suppose. Some, like myself, will alsoquestion why the subject was even posted in the first place.

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matt605 wrote:

There could be an OC component because Virginia law prohibits carry a firearm onto the property of any place of worship unless for a good reason. I can't recall specific law, but it is on the books.

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Very close. But you get no points this trip around.

The code says ---- while religious services are in progress.

§ 18.2-283. Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.

If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

(Code 1950, § 18.1-241; 1960, c. 358; 1962, c. 411; 1975, cc. 14, 15.)

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Sheriff wrote:

matt605 wrote:

There could be an OC component because Virginia law prohibits carry a firearm onto the property of any place of worship unless for a good reason. I can't recall specific law, but it is on the books.

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Very close. But you get no points this trip around.

The code says ---- while religious services are in progress.

§ 18.2-283. Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.

If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

(Code 1950, § 18.1-241; 1960, c. 358; 1962, c. 411; 1975, cc. 14, 15.)

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Sheriff - I'm going to give you one demerit

"a meeting for religious purposes" could be a variety of things other than an actual religoius service. Choir practice, a meeting among church elders to discuss a sermon or issue, etc....

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ProShooter wrote:

Sheriff - I'm going to give you one demerit

"a meeting for religious purposes" could be a variety of things other than an actual religoius service. Choir practice, a meeting among church elders to discuss a sermon or issue, etc....

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Agreed. I was watching ALF on TV while typing. Religious purposes!!!!!

Now to go one step further though... even if a cop carries a gun onto church property while "religious purposes" are taking place, he actually has good and sufficient cause. It's part of the uniform in America. He's required to carry a gun while on duty. This is one reason the "good and sufficient" clause is in the state code. I don't think any judge would ever hand a conviction down to any on duty police officer who carries a gun onto church property. I did it for almost 3 decades.



§ 18.2-283. Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.

If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

(Code 1950, § 18.1-241; 1960, c. 358; 1962, c. 411; 1975, cc. 14, 15.)

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Sheriff wrote:

matt605 wrote:

There could be an OC component because Virginia law prohibits carry a firearm onto the property of any place of worship unless for a good reason. I can't recall specific law, but it is on the books.

Click to expand...

Very close. But you get no points this trip around.

The code says ---- while religious services are in progress.

§ 18.2-283. Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.

If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

(Code 1950, § 18.1-241; 1960, c. 358; 1962, c. 411; 1975, cc. 14, 15.)

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If the church doors are open and available for prayer then the place of worship is in use. Of course, the time in question was nighttime and the doors will often be locked a little while after the last officiated service.

Then the question would shift to whether the cop was there by permission. In the area where I live, suburban Washington, DC, police are frequently employed on Sundays (and Saturday evenings) to assist with the outflow of traffic from the parking lots following religious services.

:dude:

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It is amazing how a group of peoplecan collaborate and find ways to preventacop from sitting in a parking lot open to the public while he is attempting to identifymotorists who are speeding past a church.... who are breaking the law!!!

They look beyond all the good the cop is doing for the church in that he is slowing down traffic outfront and providing free security to the church against those that would break in, burn, or vandalize the building.

They remark on how the church can ban him from the property, warn him not the trespass, and report to the Sheriff they do not want him to sit on the property.

Then to try and have him charged for bringing a gun onto the property.... unreal!!

All this to be done by a location that welcomes EVERYONE.. a CHURCH!!!

I am going to doubt the church really cares that the officer is sitting in the parking lot at night.

What is comes down to is a group of people who do not like speed enforcement.

As the OP stated in his first thread.. "is upsetting the people of the church as they say it looks bad which I tend to agree"

I am not sure how this can be so upsetting... Everyone else can park there car in the lot so why not the cop?

This thread should have been locked a while ago as it is nothing more than a fishing expedition on how to get rid of a cop enforcing the law.

I suspect this name is also JohnnyB here asking the same 'ol questions. He was caught speeding a few times on his motorcycle and he is mad at the police.

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From what they have told me it doesn't sound like he is doing it at night. Not sure that that would upset too many people. They run a office out of this church which is open maybe not daily but most days. Not sure may be daily as it's for a volunteer group. There is other stuff going on while he is sitting out there trying to catch speeders. If he was doing it at night when no one else was there I'm sure it would be a totally different thing.

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Rut roh! It's gonna be snowing by 6:00 a.m. tomorrow morning. LEO229 and I agree on something again!

If somebody is speeding or driving in a reckless manner, I don't care if the cop is sitting in the Chuck ECheese parking lot working radar while eating fries and talking to his girlfriend on a cell phone. Heck, I don't even care if he has a lawn chair and sitting in it on top of the patrol car at the time.

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Apparently it's that he is sitting out there during meetings for the volunteer group that runs a office out of the church. Not sure if he is there during church meetings like deacon meetings and stuff but they are upset as because he is out there during their meetings not that he is sitting out there at night. Honestly, the church hasn't had a problem with anyone breaking in or doing anything else in the last how many ever years it's been there without him sitting there.