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Thread: I reckon it was bound to happen...

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    Bill, first off, great work with the recorder, not only were you a quick draw with it, but it will make a great reference for anyone else OC'ing in Wal-Mart.

    Im happy it overall went well, despite the LEO's doing their jobs of course. One question, did the Manager, say she was aware of its legality in front of the officer? If so how did he react? just wondering personally.

    Ill look forward to the audio Bill, and if you need a wingman in Wytheville, just let me know bud.

    *Martial Arts is now my secondary weapon*

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    Actually, you did have to show the officer both your CHP and ID on demand, since you admitted to carrying concealed to him.

    This reminds me that the Town Attorney never got back to me about that damned illegal sign

    Yes - a good chance VCDL will be visiting Wytheville. Can you verify the sign is still up?

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    VCDL President wrote:
    Actually, you did have to show the officer both your CHP and ID on demand, since you admitted to carrying concealed to him.

    This reminds me that the Town Attorney never got back to me about that damned illegal sign

    Yes - a good chance VCDL will be visiting Wytheville. Can you verify the sign is still up?
    Philip beat me to it....

    Under 18.2-308 H -

    H. The permit to carry a concealed handgun shall specify only the following information: name, address, date of birth, gender, height, weight, color of hair, color of eyes, and signature of the permittee; the signature of the judge issuing the permit, or of the clerk of court who has been authorized to sign such permits by the issuing judge; and the date of issuance. The permit to carry a concealed handgun shall be no larger than two inches wide by three and one-fourth inches long and shall be of a uniform style prescribed by the Department of State Police. The person issued the permit shall have such permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and shall display the permit and a photo-identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department (passport) upon demand by a law-enforcement officer.
    James Reynolds

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    Great story Bill - I just love reading stories like this when step-by-step the lawful citizen corrects a potential wrong. You know darn well the police are talking about what happened and sharing the info...so are the other employees at Wal-Mart.

    The good word is being spread and our seemingly "minor" incidents are pushing our efforts forward in every city and county. Heck, with VCDL setting the pace years ago open carry has spread to numerous other states!

    Thanks again for sharing your personal example of turning a potential bad situation into a good one for everyone.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I'm a little shocked that would happen in Wytheville Bill, but stupid seems to be everywhere these days. Good job!

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    You people are good. Always seem knowledgeable, prepared and quick on your toes. I like reading these stories....they make me feel more confident when someone says something smart to me or when walking past cops.

    I'm wondering if I should invest in a voice recorder. I haven't yet because I downloaded a voice recorder app to my iPhone. You can email the file to yourself. I'd just assume not have to carry around something else. Its already heard enough with jeans on to carry my keys, cigarettes, lighter, phone, wallet, pocket change and keep the pocket under my 1911 empty.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    What was the date this happened Bill?

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    Bill in VA wrote:
    (Again, my understanding is that when asked by the police to identify myself Ineed to comply andidentify myself, but not required toproduce ID. Correct?
    I think your confusion has me confused, so let's back up...

    If a LEO asks you for identification, you need to identify yourself. This can be done verbally and you are not required to produce documents. This would have been the case if you were still openly carrying in the store.

    If LEO asks you for your CHP while you are carrying concealed, you must produce your CHP and a valid, government issued photo id. Most LEOS ask for a DL since its what most people have. This is now the case since you switched to concealed carry from open carry.
    James Reynolds

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    Great story Bill. Glad there was a good outcome and nice to hear the managerwas on top of things. I was down in Abingdon a couple months ago for training. It's beautiful country in that area.

    To edit the audio, I recommend Audacity, it's very easy to use, and can handle most file formats. http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/


    Find businesses that are pro gun...and those that aren't. Friend or Foe - Version 2 is online!

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    hlh wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    If a LEO asks you for identification, you need to identify yourself. This can be done verbally and you are not required to produce documents. This would have been the case if you were still openly carrying in the store.


    Only if you're a crime suspect.
    Thank you Lee, forgot to add that.....way too early and I hadnt finished my morning coffee yet!
    James Reynolds

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    ProShooter wrote:
    Bill in VA wrote:
    (Again, my understanding is that when asked by the police to identify myself Ineed to comply andidentify myself, but not required toproduce ID. Correct?
    I think your confusion has me confused, so let's back up...

    If a LEO asks you for identification, you need to identify yourself. This can be done verbally and you are not required to produce documents. This would have been the case if you were still openly carrying in the store.

    If LEO asks you for your CHP while you are carrying concealed, you must produce your CHP and a valid, government issued photo id. Most LEOS ask for a DL since its what most people have. This is now the case since you switched to concealed carry from open carry.
    Good summary.

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    It sounds/reads like you handled yourself quite well Bill. Well done.

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    Bill in VA wrote:
    snip.....

    6. Mixed in with the threats of handcuffs and arrests was his statementthat only a driver's license or DMV-issued ID was acceptable as aform of ID. (you, me, and the law ddisagree with him on this point. My apologies for leaving this out of the initial post, but I didn't think itgermane to the topicat the time. Based on the growing confusion I see I should've been clearer on this.)

    7. At the end of the encounterthe same officer proceeded to/attempted to lecture me on how I'm required to show ID while carrying concealed and "any time you are carry a weapon you can be checked [for ID (garbled in the recording)]...you don't comply you could handcuffed, even arrested." This staemetn that he made is not correct (see item 1.)
    I sincerely hope that you are going to persue a formal complaint. There is no reason for an office to respond in this manner/attitude. If allowed to go unanswered, it will not get better.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    VCDL President wrote:
    Actually, you did have to show the officer both your CHP and ID on demand, since you admitted to carrying concealed to him.

    This reminds me that the Town Attorney never got back to me about that damned illegal sign

    Yes - a good chance VCDL will be visiting Wytheville. Can you verify the sign is still up?
    True you have to show CHP and photo ID; it doesn't have to bea driver license, though.

    I know at least one person who shows a military ID (retired) instead, since it does not have his address on it.

    If I'm wrong on this, I'd appreciate a correction, as that is what I have been planning if it's ever needed.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Bill,

    I think that you handled yourself well. I can't speak on the officers attitude and/or demeanor since I wasnt there....lord knows some of the guys I worked with didnt have the best 'bedside manner'.

    I can tell you though that in 12 years of wearing a uniform, I never asked anyone for their "government issued photo id". I simply asked for their id or driver's license because it washabit. Even folks who dont drive usually had a DMV issued id card. 99.9% of the time when you ask someone for id, they hand you their license. I never was handed a military id card or passport. I got a few foreign driver's licenses and crumpled pieces of paper, and one guy gave me his photo id that allowed him to get food stamps in the city......


    James Reynolds

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    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
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    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Tess wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    Actually, you did have to show the officer both your CHP and ID on demand, since you admitted to carrying concealed to him.
    True you have to show CHP and photo ID; it doesn't have to bea driver license, though.
    Do not give your photo ID or CHP to an officer. You must only display them if demanded. I have a plastic badge cover and neck badge system. Placing these in the open is displaying them. If they want the information they can look at the documents you are displaying and write down the info. Do not let yourself be temporarily detained by LEO by letting LEO hold your documents. There is no legal authority for LEOs to do so for concealed carry.

    Cite: Code of VA 18.2 308 H - The person issued the permit shall have such permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and shall display the permit and a photo-identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department (passport) upon demand by a law-enforcement officer.

    Obviously you are correct, a drivers license is not required. Any state issued photo ID, DOD ID or US Passport. Note that there is no requirement for the ID to be current either. Many old DOD dependant ID cards were issued without any SSN. Dig out that keepsake from 35 years ago.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    We should all remember this Wal mart store policy is that associates. that are working are not suppose to call police themselves for anything only management is to call so if this happens find out who called let manger know.

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Thundar wrote:
    Do not give your photo ID or CHP to an officer. You must only display them if demanded. I have a plastic badge cover and neck badge system. Placing these in the open is displaying them. If they want the information they can look at the documents you are displaying and write down the info. Do not let yourself be temporarily detained by LEO by letting LEO hold your documents. There is no legal authority for LEOs to do so for concealed carry.

    Cite: Code of VA 18.2 308 H - The person issued the permit shall have such permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and shall display the permit and a photo-identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense or United States State Department (passport) upon demand by a law-enforcement officer.
    Have you had a chance to try this approach, and if so, how'd it work out?



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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Bill had some problems with the audio and that caused issues hosting it. Something about the codec.

    Anyway, here it is:

    http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/a...Wallyworld.flv



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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Let your recorder therefore be the constant companion of your walks. Never think of taking just a pen with you. (My apologies to Thomas Jefferson.)

    It is an unfortunate fact that you never know when you are going to need the protection that having a recorder affords. Better to carry and not need.......

    Yata hey


    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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