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Thread: We're going to Norfolk City Council, again!

  1. #1
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    VA-ALERT: ACTION ITEM: Norfolk City Council meeting!


    From Philip Van Cleave

    ACTION ITEM:

    As you might recall, Norfolk paid VCDL member Danladi Moore $10,000 for unlawfully harassing him for openly carrying a gun. The check was barely in the bank when the Norfolk police did it to him again on a Norfolk bus, as was detailed in the VCDL mini-update on September 22nd.

    You would think that Norfolk would have learned their lesson (don't forget that Chet Szymecki and his wife, Deborah, each still have lawsuits against Norfolk in federal court over Chet's unlawful arrest last year in Norfolk, too).

    We need you to join us next Tuesday, October 7th, as we tell City Council that these repeated violations are not acceptable.

    As Ian Fleming wrote in the James Bond novel, "Goldfinger" - "Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, the third time is enemy action."

    Tidewater - you are great at huge turnouts (we had over 100 last time we did this). Can we have another big turnout to make sure our message is clear yet again?

    I plan to be there at 6:30 PM and will hand out the "Guns Save Lives" stickers so all of us will be easily identified as part of the same group.

    If you want to speak, you will need to sign up before the meeting starts at 7 PM. But even if you don't speak, your presence is critical to underscore our message that we expect Norfolk to respect our rights. I will ask those who agree with me to stand during my comments.

    It will be interesting to see if City Councilman Riddick will shamefully turn his back on his constituents and leave the room like he did the last time we tried to redress our grievances over this same issue.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    This is where the rubber meets the road in Tidewater. Good luck!

    :celebrate

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Three (3) seats available from Richmond - will not ask for, but willing to accept donations for gas money. I'm going anyway, so why not open up available space.

    If you ride with me you must be prepared to wait about 2 minutes for the guard to walk across the lobby and open up the handicapped access doors. Last time there he was very pleasant about it and beat me to the doors on exiting the building.

    If you have a barbeque or courtgun this is an occassion to wear it. http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2...-bbq-guns.htmland http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=196979

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    skidmark wrote:
    ...will not ask for, but willing to accept donations for gas money.
    By posting this, haven't you just asked for it?
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
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    The pre-meeting dinner will occur where? I enjoyed Freemason Abbeys last time and missed the recent OCDO event there so thats my vote....but I'll eat just about anything.

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    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    I'll be there and Dutch Uncle will also be attending I know Can't hurt to have a college student there

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    ProShooter wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    ...will not ask for, but willing to accept donations for gas money.
    By posting this, haven't you just asked for it?
    by posting this are you being a wit or a twit?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    ...will not ask for, but willing to accept donations for gas money.
    By posting this, haven't you just asked for it?
    Why you want a ride ?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    ProShooterhas asked a very important question, as well as making a really stupid comment.

    Of importance - where will the pre-bloodbath dinner be held? Freemason's Abbey is convenient & well-used to seeing a herd of Open Carry folks come in. They will move tables to adjust for the size of the group, especially if we have reservations.

    I'm going to start a separate thread on the pre-meeting dinner. Respond there if interested.

    stay safe.

    skidmark.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    Freemason Abbey's was amazing last week. Our waitress was even a frequent reader of the site. The food was very good too. They sucker you into buying the delicious cheesecakes:P Just make sure to call ahead.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    skidmark wrote:
    ProShooterhas asked a very important question
    Someone has to ask the important questions in life....
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    ProShooterhas asked a very important question
    Someone has to ask the important questions in life....
    "Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
    The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
    Or to take arms against a sea of troubles......"

    "Why stand we here idle? ............ I know not what course others may take; but as for me.........." I point to the east - Norfolk, Tuesday, October 7th.

    And you?

    Yata hey

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I heard Norfolk demands ID to enter city hall or else they photogrpagh you - folks who are sterile carrying might want to object to this protocol.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Mike wrote:
    I heard Norfolk demands ID to enter city hall or else they photogrpagh you - folks who are sterile carrying might want to object to this protocol.
    Anybody that has been there before? Chime in please. Do they record the info?

    Sounds like the state capital event all over again. Have to wonder by what authority and whether such is extra-legal. It is a "public meeting" is it not? Would seem at first blush to violate preemption unless everybody (sterile included) were IDd - then perhaps violation of no legitimate right to demand ID - unless CCing - which I won't be.

    Yata hey


    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  15. #15
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    "Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
    The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
    Or to take arms against a sea of troubles......"

    "Why stand we here idle? ............ I know not what course others may take; but as for me.........." I point to the east - Norfolk, Tuesday, October 7th.

    And you?

    Yata hey
    Hamlet and Henry.....good choices....
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Mike wrote:
    I heard Norfolk demands ID to enter city hall or else they photogrpagh you - folks who are sterile carrying might want to object to this protocol.
    That is ridiculous! I would be so tempted to give them the bird while they take my picture, but that might hurt the more important goals of the evening.

    Give 'em hell! I will be with you in spirit!

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    I heard Norfolk demands ID to enter city hall or else they photogrpagh you - folks who are sterile carrying might want to object to this protocol.
    Anybody that has been there before? Chime in please. Do they record the info?

    Sounds like the state capital event all over again. Have to wonder by what authority and whether such is extra-legal. It is a "public meeting" is it not? Would seem at first blush to violate preemption unless everybody (sterile included) were IDd - then perhaps violation of no legitimate right to demand ID - unless CCing - which I won't be.

    Yata hey

    To my recollection, they didn't do either when we went in support of Danbus and Renegade last summer.....Bubba Ron....Dutch.....DesertDoc....do any of you recall any differently?

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    bayboy42 wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    I heard Norfolk demands ID to enter city hall or else they photogrpagh you - folks who are sterile carrying might want to object to this protocol.
    Anybody that has been there before? Chime in please. Do they record the info?

    Sounds like the state capital event all over again. Have to wonder by what authority and whether such is extra-legal. It is a "public meeting" is it not? Would seem at first blush to violate preemption unless everybody (sterile included) were IDd - then perhaps violation of no legitimate right to demand ID - unless CCing - which I won't be.

    Yata hey

    To my recollection, they didn't do either when we went in support of Danbus and Renegade last summer.....Bubba Ron....Dutch.....DesertDoc....do any of you recall any differently?
    There is a "policy" of asking visitors to sign in if they are going to a specific person or office, but it was explained to me at the Danbus/Chet show-our-support event that there is no sign-in for public meetings.

    That being said, there were an awful lot of folks who seemed to be signing in & out. I was not among those, and I certainly called enough attention to myself by insisting that they open the handicapped access entrance for me.

    One might, as was done at the Crime Commission meeting, politely (buy firmly if need be) ask under what authority they demand you sign in & out, and then ask to see the cited authority in writing. Holding a digital voice recorder up seemed to expedite the resolution of the matter with the Capitol Police. It might do the trick at Norfolk City Hall too.

    See you at Norfolk City Hall.

    Still have two (2) seats open. Shotgun has been called already.

    stay safe.

    skidmark

    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    I believed I signed in at the prior large gathering there, but I don't remember if ID was requested.

    At the time, I didn't mind signing in with the many others, as I was thinking that a few pages full of names would add to the record our show of support.



  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
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    I may have signed in last time; I really can't recall. I know no one demanded ID or threatened to photograph me. I would have told them which part of my anatomy they could photograph......let's just say it wouldn't have mattered if the sun were shining or not!

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    Sheriff wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    You would think that Norfolk would have learned their lesson....
    I'm sorry, but I honestlythink certain policeofficers couldn't care less. It's not money out of their pocket, the taxpayers foot the bill for any and all damages in most cases. But.... if a jury were to award Danbus about $50,000 in punitive damages some day, and the city refuses to back up the officer(s), this is the only thing that will wake up the officers. Officers have to pay punitive damages if not insured or if the city refuses to pay for them.

    Does it surprise me they messed with him again? No. Would it surprise me if they mess with him again and again and again? No. Do I think they will eventually find a serious crime to charge Danbus with? Yes. Do I think this serious crime will be a completely bogus setup? Yes. Ya see folks, some police officers never get over an award being paid out to a plaintiff. Ya see, it's pretty much the same thing as "contempt of cop". The award means you have beat them at their own game. And you beat them at their own game because they did said or did something wrong.

    Without going into much detail at this time, I am highly qualified to state that once a person is awarded damages against a police officer(s), the police officer(s)will re-surface later to play the game again with the same individual.

    As sad as it may seem in America, the best thing Danbus can do is have one or two witnesses WITH HIM when he walks in public in the future.
    I have to agree with Sheriff. Danbus may not see this as "him vs the Norfolk PD", but some of them might. What do you bet that the cop who drew down on Dan in the 1st event was "invited" to the bus stop to "verify" that Dan was "the guy"? If Dan's not alone, my guess is they won't mess with him.

    The LEO's can play this game with unlimited resources.

    One of the "rebuked" cop's buddies makes an anonymous 911 call from prepaid cell reporting "a black man with a gun just assaulted someone" while observing Dan nearby....

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    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    We should get Dan one of those button cameras with audio

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Cell phone transmissions are not invisable. The number calling and location are easily located and tracked. Plus the voice can be IDd from the 911 recording. Are there ways to confused electronics? Sure. And ways to off-set those too.

    Would be a good made for TV show though or a mega bucks settlement if a group of Norfolk's finest conspired to that degree to deprive Dan of his rights. Would expect personal liability judgements too.

    All hypothetical anyway.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    BTT

    While Danbus is our focus, let us not forget that there are those who are against us all around. See http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/16805.htmlas just one more example of our "brother in arms" trying to stick a knife in our backs.

    I was going to Norfolk anyhow, but the thread above made me realize that it is not something I might do, but something I must do. I don't want any of the cops in my locality to think they can start getting away with what NPD is trying to do. So far there is no reason to believe they will try, but if the incident with Danbus is allowed to pass without protest it might signal that other cops can get away with it in other jurisdictions.

    If we must keep drawing the same line in the sand over and over until NPD and their ilk "get it" then I guess that's what we do,

    [/rant]

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  25. #25
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    We really need to brand the city council as permittingand promoting civil rights abuses.

    Paint them with the brush that they deserve.

    My first cut at an address:

    "You the GrandWizards of the Norfolk Chapter of theConstitutionalKleptomania Klan should be ashamed of your anti-civil rights record and actions. The police force of this city has a demonstrated civil rights abuse record. You as the council have a legal, moral and fiduciary duty to correct this abuse of citizens and to purge the police force of those that violate the civil rights of citizens.

    You may not like the U.S. Constitution and the individual right to bear arms that it affirms, but you are duty bound to respect it and the citizens that exercise that right, a duty which you have abdicated. Rogue Norfolk Police take your silence and lack of action as a green light to abuse citizens at will.This is a cancer which harms the city and those police officers that have not yet become civil rights abusers.

    I have a prescription to fix your city's civil rights cancer. Conduct an independent investigation of the civil rights violations. Make it you policy to terminate any officer with a repeat history of civil rights violations. Require all officers to receive civil rights training which includes the U.S. and State constitutions. Emphasize your commitment to civil rights and the termination policy for repeat violators.

    You can ignore our pleas for justice and continue your cities despicable record of civil rights abuse, but we are not going away. Our numbers grow and we have lawyers., the constitution and morality on our side.

    All that we ask is that your police respect our rights. It is a very sad day when we must come before you with such a plea."

    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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