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Thread: Your Right of Defense Against Unlawful Arrest

  1. #1
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    I had a member post this on my forum, I thought you guys might find it interesting to read.


    “Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529. The Court stated: “Where the officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right to make the arrest, from what it does if the officer had no right. What may be murder in the first case might be nothing more than manslaughter in the other, or the facts might show that no offense had been committed.” “An arrest made with a defective warrant, or one issued without affidavit, or one that fails to allege a crime is within jurisdiction, and one who is being arrested, may resist arrest and break away. lf the arresting officer is killed by one who is so resisting, the killing will be no more than an involuntary manslaughter.” Housh v. People, 75 111. 491; reaffirmed and quoted in State v. Leach, 7 Conn. 452; State v. Gleason, 32 Kan. 245; Ballard v. State, 43 Ohio 349; State v Rousseau, 241 P. 2d 447; State v. Spaulding, 34 Minn. 3621. “When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justified.” Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80; Miller v. State, 74 Ind. 1. “These principles apply as well to an officer attempting to make an arrest, who abuses his authority and transcends the bounds thereof by the use of unnecessary force and violence, as they do to a private individual who unlawfully uses such force and violence.” Jones v. State, 26 Tex. App. I; Beaverts v. State, 4 Tex. App. 1 75; Skidmore v. State, 43 Tex. 93, 903. “An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery.” (State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260). “Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense.” (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100). “One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910). “Story affirmed the right of self-defense by persons held illegally. In his own writings, he had admitted that ‘a situation could arise in which the checks-and-balances principle ceased to work and the various branches of government concurred in a gross usurpation.’ There would be no usual remedy by changing the law or passing an amendment to the Constitution, should the oppressed party be a minority. Story concluded, ‘If there be any remedy at all ... it is a remedy never provided for by human institutions.’ That was the ‘ultimate right of all human beings in extreme cases to resist oppression, and to apply force against ruinous injustice.’” (From Mutiny on the Amistad by Howard Jones, Oxford University Press, 1987, an account of the reading of the decision in the case by Justice Joseph Story of the Supreme Court. As for grounds for arrest: “The carrying of arms in a quiet, peaceable, and orderly manner, concealed on or about the person, is not a breach of the peace. Nor does such an act of itself, lead to a breach of the peace.” (Wharton’s Criminal and Civil Procedure, 12th Ed., Vol. 2: Judy v. Lashley, 5 W. Va. 628, 41 S.E. 197)
    http://www.rheacountynewspaper.com/E...to-defend.html

  2. #2
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    You've just opened a hornets nest.....nobody here advocates deadly force for unlawful arrest.

    If you'd care to "read up" on Mr. Badelk, you'd find that he went to prison for what he did...even though it was on a manslaughter charge rather than murder.

    Unless unlawful deadly force is being used against you, don't resist an unlawful arrest....solve the issue in court, then file suit if warranted.

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    Not, I think, a forum that I'll hang around, between the post and the animated .gif siggy.

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    I had in bold what I was wanting to show you guys which pertained to firearms the rest really has no usefullness. Just the one part is what I'm talking about theres no point in reading the rest.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Not, I think, a forum that I'll hang around, between the post and the animated .gif siggy.
    That's fine it wasn't an invite

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    The part in bold is quite true. As for the rest, we are not currently at a point where resistance is required. Perhaps there will come a time when we are. The gun grabs in New Orleans approach such a point. But in most cases, you're better off settling later.

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    If your life is in danger, deadly force is justified. If not, huge settlements are the way to go.

    It's important to know that you have a right to shoot it out with an out of control cop or 2 as stated in those case laws. Extremely important. We have an absolute right to defend ourselves. But it is vastly unlikely that it will be an issue. We just aren't violent people here, and cops don't usually react violently to people going about their business legally and peacefully.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

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    I must say... I am learning so much by hanging around here that it is very scary. How ever, after reading this it has just brought up so many questions that i would like answered.

    [/b]
    FARMINGTON HILLS, Mich. -- Dearborn and Allen Park police are accused of mistaking a diabetic man for a drunken driver and beating him to the point that he required surgery to remove part of his brain, according to a lawsuit filed by an attorney representing the man’s wife.Pamela Griglen, 46, and her attorney Arnold Reed on Monday filed a federal lawsuit asking for $20 million in damages.Reed said Ernest Griglen was driving southbound on the Southfield Freeway on June 15 when he suffered a diabetic hypoglycemic episode that caused him to swerve between lanes. Ernest was pulled over by Allen Park and Dearborn police who thought he was drunk and beat him in the head and face, Reed said.“They began to hit him, punch him and throw him to the ground,” Reed said.Ernest’s wife said her husband told her, “They beat me, Pam. They really beat me.”However, two police reports offer differing details of the incident.In one police report, Breathalyzer results listed prove Ernest was not drunk, but states police were chasing Ernest because of a domestic violence complaint. The report states he was pulled over after a short chase on the Southfield Freeway near Ford Road.The other report states Ernest was “combative” and that officers were force to put him on the ground. The only injury listed on the report is that some blood was noticed to be trickling down Ernest’s nose.But Reed said Ernest was taken to Oakwood Hospital where emergency brain surgery was performed that removed a part of Ernest’s brain. Reed added that the man has not been awake and has been on a ventilator since the incident, and he presented photographs to prove the man's condition.Reed maintains Ernest had an insulin pump inserted in his stomach and that officers should have taken it as a sign to the truth behind Ernest’s behavior.Ernest was also wearing a medical boot because he had just had an operation on his ankle.Reed said although there is not police dashcam video of the incident, he does have witnesses who will be brought to court.The director of public information for the city of Dearborn said the city has not yet been served with the lawsuit and would need to investigate the allegations in a responsible manner before commenting on the situation. She said the city’s best wishes go out to the family while they are dealing with such a serious medical condition.The Allen Park police declined comment.
    http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/17533450/detail.html

    After reading the article posted by adam40cal and the one on the local news, I wonder how all of this would have turned out if this mans wife was carrying a firearm. My question, that I have been pondering for the last few days or so, is if I were out with a friend or a family member, and they happen to suffer a hypoglycemic episode, and are mistaken by police as a drunk driver or someone who is drunk in public and even after they are notified several times verbally and visually with the diabetic tags, start or continue to beat on them for the simple reason of they thought he was drunk. If I took those officers lives in the self defense of my family/friends in the same situation in the article, how would that turn out.

    What needs to be considered is a law that says that if a sworn officer of the law, in any capacity of the enforcement of laws, steps outside of there duties and boundaries, they are no longer acting as officers of the law but as private citizens. This in a since would make the individual officers more responsible for there actions.

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    With the numerous documentations of death after being tasered by police, I've wondered what my reaction would be if some LEO decided he was going to taser my wife while trying to arrest her for some ridiculous trumped up charge. Having been married for 34 years and knowing her to be a VERY responsible law-abiding person, I believe I KNOW what my reaction would be!

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    THway wrote:
    . . . If I took those officers lives in the self defense of my family/friends in the same situation in the article, how would that turn out.
    If you believe you or someone else will be killedor suffer great bodily harm from an unjustified use of force by another person, you arelegally permitted to use lethal force in defense, period. The words in bold are key to you being justified in using deadly force. It does not matter who the attacker is or circumstances prior to an attacker using unjustified force.

    Now, that being said, you better be damnedsureof your justificationbefore using deadly force, especially in the hypothetical you presented.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    This post should not even be here. Not a matter of if, but rather when it is taken out of context it will be a major blow against all of our efforts. Adam, please edit your post and leave only thequote you had in bold.
    United we STAND!

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    defcon1 wrote:
    With the numerous documentations of death after being tasered by police, I've wondered what my reaction would be if some LEO decided he was going to taser my wife while trying to arrest her for some ridiculous trumped up charge. Having been married for 34 years and knowing her to be a VERY responsible law-abiding person, I believe I KNOW what my reaction would be!
    Such reportsmay be numerous, but theactual death rate fromtasers themselves isquite low. Tasers are reasonably considered non-lethal devices. In your hypothetical, it would be best to restrain yourself and sue the PD for unlawful or unreasonable arrest or use of force, if the facts support the case.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    JeffSayers wrote:
    This post should not even be here. Not a matter of if, but rather when it is taken out of context it will be a major blow against all of our efforts. Adam, please edit your post and leave only thequote you had in bold.
    What, you find the truth and case law about it to be dangerous? The 2A is not for criminals, it's for overbearing government, and police abuse is such a thing. People will always take things out of context, and we should be able to handle it, rather than refuse to bring up an important point.

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    Rogue9er wrote:
    JeffSayers wrote:
    This post should not even be here. Not a matter of if, but rather when it is taken out of context it will be a major blow against all of our efforts. Adam, please edit your post and leave only thequote you had in bold.
    What, you find the truth and case law about it to be dangerous? The 2A is not for criminals, it's for overbearing government, and police abuse is such a thing. People will always take things out of context, and we should be able to handle it, rather than refuse to bring up an important point.
    Jeff apologizes to Adam for his hasty remarks. Rogue9er makes a great point in saying we should be able to handle it. To that point, I have saved a snapshot of this page in its entirety.
    United we STAND!

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