suntzu
Regular Member
imported post
Ok, so here are the questions I have today.
Tennessee law states under 39-17-1351 that "Any law enforcement officer of this state or of any county or municipality may, within the realm of the officer's lawful jurisdiction and when the officer is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties, disarm a permit holder at any time when the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the permit holder, officer or other individual or individuals. The officer shall return the handgun to the permit holder before discharging the permit holder from the scene when the officer has determined that the permit holder is not a threat to the officer, to the permit holder, or other individual or individuals provided that the permit holder has not violated any provision of this section and provided the permit holder has not committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the permit holder."
I emboldened the word "reasonably" because this seems to be the crux of the issue. Can a law enforcement officer disarm you just because he/she wants to, does his reasons for doing so have to be articulable, and what exactly constitutes "reasonable belief"?
Following scenario seems to be the most prevalent from what I have been reading--you are walking out of walmart, or out of some other big box store, or merely walking down the street, legally possessing a firearm and carrying it openly. A leo stops you simply because you are carrying--you ask if you are being detained, they become argumentative and begin trying to get you to become cooperative through whatever means they employ--from what I have been reading it generally amounts to some form of intimidation--all of which you have on audio, because you dutifully carry your digital voice recorder. Can the leo disarm you, pat you down and search you even if you have committed no crime? If they seize your recorder to prevent you from recording--what are your options?
I have read several such instances in Virginia--seems like there are a lot of them there--of people being stopped simply because they were carrying, but what of Tennessee?
It seems like this is the most prevalent incidence with leos on this board.
Next question--how many here have been stopped, and what were the outcomes? As I have only recently joined and from the looks of it there has not been that many instances of leo encounters here. The few incidences I did read about here seemed to come out of Maryville with the BCSO, with one incident making it into the Knox News sentinel online website with a stop at a walmat in Knox County. for simply possessing a firearm openly.
I guess the gist of all of this is--exactly how prevalent is the stop/search toward open carriers in this state? Has anyone asked the question "am I being detained", and if so what was the outcome/general attitude of the leo? Has anyone refused to consent to a search and if so, were you arrested anyway, were you searched against your consent or did they become verbally abusive? Has anyone here had your Constitutional rights violated as a result of open carry?
I'm asking for general experiences. I know the desired outcome is to educate the public while proactively defending ourselves and loved ones--I know the desire is to have positive outcomes with leos, but desired outcomes are not necessarily the outcomes we experience in public.
Before anyone asks--I'm not anti-leo. I am working toward my permit and am trying to gather all of the information I can on the laws, on my rights, and on what I can expect from the police, even though the atty. general has already opined that OC is legal in the state. I am more aware of where we may and may not carry, and since coming to this forum I have become much less afraid of the citizenry carrying guns openly, and wish more would do so--I recently saw a friend of mine who was open carrying--and a year ago it would have bothered me, but when I saw him carrying a Glock 19 last week it didn't phase me, and if anyone else saw it, it didn't seem to bother them either.
Here is the final thing...I know no one is a lawer--not asking for a legal opinion--that is what a lawyer is for, which I intend to consult prior to carrying for the first time--to cover my bases so to speak. What I am asking for is opinions and experiences from those who have been there...I am still very much a newbie--but I am however doing my research and learning all that I can.
I know this has been long winded, but I wanted to make sure that I got everything in.
Ok, so here are the questions I have today.
Tennessee law states under 39-17-1351 that "Any law enforcement officer of this state or of any county or municipality may, within the realm of the officer's lawful jurisdiction and when the officer is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties, disarm a permit holder at any time when the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the permit holder, officer or other individual or individuals. The officer shall return the handgun to the permit holder before discharging the permit holder from the scene when the officer has determined that the permit holder is not a threat to the officer, to the permit holder, or other individual or individuals provided that the permit holder has not violated any provision of this section and provided the permit holder has not committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the permit holder."
I emboldened the word "reasonably" because this seems to be the crux of the issue. Can a law enforcement officer disarm you just because he/she wants to, does his reasons for doing so have to be articulable, and what exactly constitutes "reasonable belief"?
Following scenario seems to be the most prevalent from what I have been reading--you are walking out of walmart, or out of some other big box store, or merely walking down the street, legally possessing a firearm and carrying it openly. A leo stops you simply because you are carrying--you ask if you are being detained, they become argumentative and begin trying to get you to become cooperative through whatever means they employ--from what I have been reading it generally amounts to some form of intimidation--all of which you have on audio, because you dutifully carry your digital voice recorder. Can the leo disarm you, pat you down and search you even if you have committed no crime? If they seize your recorder to prevent you from recording--what are your options?
I have read several such instances in Virginia--seems like there are a lot of them there--of people being stopped simply because they were carrying, but what of Tennessee?
It seems like this is the most prevalent incidence with leos on this board.
Next question--how many here have been stopped, and what were the outcomes? As I have only recently joined and from the looks of it there has not been that many instances of leo encounters here. The few incidences I did read about here seemed to come out of Maryville with the BCSO, with one incident making it into the Knox News sentinel online website with a stop at a walmat in Knox County. for simply possessing a firearm openly.
I guess the gist of all of this is--exactly how prevalent is the stop/search toward open carriers in this state? Has anyone asked the question "am I being detained", and if so what was the outcome/general attitude of the leo? Has anyone refused to consent to a search and if so, were you arrested anyway, were you searched against your consent or did they become verbally abusive? Has anyone here had your Constitutional rights violated as a result of open carry?
I'm asking for general experiences. I know the desired outcome is to educate the public while proactively defending ourselves and loved ones--I know the desire is to have positive outcomes with leos, but desired outcomes are not necessarily the outcomes we experience in public.
Before anyone asks--I'm not anti-leo. I am working toward my permit and am trying to gather all of the information I can on the laws, on my rights, and on what I can expect from the police, even though the atty. general has already opined that OC is legal in the state. I am more aware of where we may and may not carry, and since coming to this forum I have become much less afraid of the citizenry carrying guns openly, and wish more would do so--I recently saw a friend of mine who was open carrying--and a year ago it would have bothered me, but when I saw him carrying a Glock 19 last week it didn't phase me, and if anyone else saw it, it didn't seem to bother them either.
Here is the final thing...I know no one is a lawer--not asking for a legal opinion--that is what a lawyer is for, which I intend to consult prior to carrying for the first time--to cover my bases so to speak. What I am asking for is opinions and experiences from those who have been there...I am still very much a newbie--but I am however doing my research and learning all that I can.
I know this has been long winded, but I wanted to make sure that I got everything in.