constitutionalist

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Be careful, your ignorance is about to show. Slavery was not what the War Between the States was over. Slavery has existed all over the world for thousands of years. Now, if that is the point that were going to make, as in different stories in the Bible and whatnot where people were enslaved for generations without being freed, that's one thing. But, if you were in fact trying to say simply that that war was primarily over slavery, just stop right there.

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This forum is not the place for that discussion, my only point was that at least for slaves and freemen there was significant infringing of their RKBA.

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Okay then, I apologize.

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longwatch wrote:

Not everyone could say that or exercise their RKBA. There was quite a bit of infringement then.

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yes, there was slavery then, and that is unfortunate. so exactly what are you saying? it existed at the time of the founding as well. It existed previous to that. That doesn't change the fact that most of the tyrannical powers that the FED abuse today were given the precedent to do so by Lincoln. Lincoln had nothing to do with slavery other than propose to ship all blacks back to Africa, or do you still believe that "great emancipator" myth?

forget it. I've argued all of these points before, and I really don't care to waste my breath repeating them yet again.

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My point simply is that infringements on the RKBA have existed for a lot longer than you realize. Gun control laws are a great gordian knot that constricts the RKBA. Many started as slave codes, to keep the black man in line but no one back then cried it was an infringement of the right to keep and bear arms. Long story short it lead us to where we are today.

Clayton E. Cramer has much detail if you care to look.
http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/cramer.racism.html

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longwatch wrote:

My point simply is that infringements on the RKBA have existed for a lot longer than you realize.

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I'd like to apologize if I seemed a little angry regarding your post longwatch. I understand that due to slavery, we can't say that the Republic has ever been truly and totally "free".

what I was referring to is the amount of personal freedom given to "citizens" then as compared to now. If you will take a look at every issue people seem to have with the FED you could look at Lincolns regime and draw startling parrallels. Lincoln, for all intents and purposes was the beginning of the end for the Constitutional Republic.

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GaGunOwner wrote:

If you just decide to open carry in astate whereit is illegal you are just going to be another "gun criminal." You are going to be booked, you'll loose your gun, pay a fine and lawyer, have a criminal record, and probably be convicted. You'd probably have to do probation or something, maybe even a little more time in the jail. If you are convited of a felony you know what happens then :?. It won't look good to have a "gun conviction" on your record and you probably won't be able to get a CC license for awhile, if ever. If you already have one it will probably be revoked. The general public won't really see you as anything other than just another "criminal." This will cause a serious strain on your job, family, and friends.

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yeah... and felons don't deserve to carry guns....

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/17062.html

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The purpose of civil disobedience is to turn public opinion to your side, which in turn will force politicians (who's careers live and die by public opinion) to change the law.

As has been demonstrated, civil disobedience would very likely not work in this case, and in fact, would probably turn public opinion the other way, actually hurting your cause.

There are still other ways to get bad laws changed, though. Activism in your own community will help, supporting candidates that you know would be favorable to voting your way, even giving money for such things as advertisements to help educate the public, and yes, even giving money to those candidates that can help. You might even consider running for office yourself. What better way to garner a vote to change the law than to be able to make that vote yourself?

The good thing is, you don't have to do it alone, nor could you. There are lots of other like-minded folks out there that believe the Constitution should be followed as it was intended by the founding fathers. I hope we all will continue to push for "shall not be infringed" again meaning exactly what it says.

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An Idea just kinda struck me and started to form....
Mind you, this is a seedling of an idea and the thought is not fully formed yet, so bear with me...

There are provisions for Open Carry in Texas, such as To or From a gun related event, Correct?

What if a group was to form to 'travel' together 'To and From' a specific gun related event and just so happened to peaceably walk through certain areas... en-route?

Would this not be a LEGAL way to 'Peaceably assemble', Show an act of (legal) civil disobedience, help to inform and desensitize the public...

What are the provisions for a 'gun related event'? Does it have to be a Gun show, shooting range, or hunt? Or could an 'Organized' OCDO Rally be considered as such?

I'm thinking that getting the local Sheriffs Posse (or similar) involved in such would probably not be Tooo difficult and would certainly help...

I know that I am playing with the edge of loop holes here, but just maybe....

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Gator5713 wrote:

An Idea just kinda struck me and started to form....
Mind you, this is a seedling of an idea and the thought is not fully formed yet, so bear with me...

There are provisions for Open Carry in Texas, such as To or From a gun related event, Correct?

What if a group was to form to 'travel' together 'To and From' a specific gun related event and just so happened to peaceably walk through certain areas... en-route?

Would this not be a LEGAL way to 'Peaceably assemble', Show an act of (legal) civil disobedience, help to inform and desensitize the public...

What are the provisions for a 'gun related event'? Does it have to be a Gun show, shooting range, or hunt? Or could an 'Organized' OCDO Rally be considered as such?

I'm thinking that getting the local Sheriffs Posse (or similar) involved in such would probably not be Tooo difficult and would certainly help...

I know that I am playing with the edge of loop holes here, but just maybe....

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AFAIK in Texas it is perfectly legal to open carry any kind of loaded firearm as long as it is not a handgun.

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That is what I was referring to...
Open Carrying Hand Guns....
It is legal as song as you are in-route to or from a gun related event...
We want to bring to light the absurdity of it not being generally legal, yet we can't just walk around anywhere with a 6gun on our hip... but, in order to bring more light to the subject and help desensitize the general public; if we get together and open carry (side arms) as a group in a manner that we can do so legally while wearing "Open Carry" insignia....

Otherwise, yes, carrying long guns is perfectly legal, thus, obviously NOT the point!:banghead:

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Why not just a regular march of the masses with hand held signs instead of guns? Why wouldn't that serve your purpose?

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Protests are fine and great. But, I was more interested in people's thoughts and reasonings behind direct civil disobedience of such absurd laws.

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As was mentioned earlier in this thread... Breaking the law is one thing... Breaking the law with a gun, greatly raises the 'caliber' of the crime! (pun intentional)
However, Is it not possible to show an act of Civil Disobedience without actually breaking any laws?
What I mean is; a group of (say 5-10) individuals who is in route to say a gun show would not be breaking any laws openly carrying a side arm, would they? However, they could choose to meet a little ways away from the event and walk to the event openly carrying, but not breaking any laws! This would be a somewhat unusual occurrence thus bringing attention to the situation, but without bringing any undue legal issues! Also, would a 'firearm enthusiast picnic' not be a 'gun related event'?
If this is posed properly to the correct officials (friendly Sheriffs Posse member?) could we not get space in a public park or area to have said picnic and all open carry?
It wouldn't be 'Civil Disobedience' in the strictest form of the term, but it would (legally and amicably) get some attention!

Just a thought...

Pick it apart, add to it, whatever, but please don't just dismiss it...