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Thread: TSA Security Really Sucks.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Hmmm.....

    Open Carried today in the Amtrak Station in Newport News.

    No issues in spite of:

    Link: http://www.tsa.gov/press/releases/2008/0923.shtm
    AMTRAK, TSA and Law Enforcement Officers Mobilize for Major Northeast Corridor Rail Security Operation
    Press Release
    September 23, 2008

    Contact: TSA
    Ann Davis (New England and PA) 617-733-8437
    Lara Uselding (NY and NJ) 917-623-0337
    Lauren Wolf (DC, VA, WV, MD, and DE) 571-227-1898

    Contact: Amtrak
    Tracy Connell 202-906-3860

    Increased security presence at nearly 150 railway stations from Virginia to Vermont

    WASHINGTON – Amtrak Office of Security Strategy and Special Operations (OSSSO), Amtrak Police, Transportation Security Administration (TSA) personnel and officers from approximately 100 commuter rail, state, and local police agencies mobilized today for the largest joint, simultaneous Northeast rail security operation of its kind, involving 150 railway stations between Fredericksburg, Virginia, and Essex Junction, Vermont.

    The morning rush-hour multi-force security deployment was NOT in response to any particular threat or incident, but rather a demonstration of an ongoing collaborative effort to expand counter-terrorism and incident response capabilities up and down the Northeast Corridor railway system. Approximately 750,000 rail passengers ride along the Northeast Corridor and other rail systems integrated with the Corridor each day.

    Over the past few years, terrorist attacks, attempts and plots around the globe have specifically targeted rail and mass transit. The security implications of this activity in the United States, particularly in the region with the greatest concentration of users of public transportation, have spurred the formation of a strong coalition of transportation and law enforcement agencies in the Northeast Corridor area.

    "We are one team, with one mission, and that is to protect rail and mass transit passengers, patrons and employees from harm, manmade or otherwise," said Amtrak Police Chief John O'Connor. "Without question, this operation provided the longest wall of security ever mobilized along the East Coast. We had hundreds of law enforcement officers across 13 states and Washington, D.C., report to duty as one force this morning, and that is our greatest strength."

    The operation enabled TSA and law enforcement officials to further familiarize themselves with their local train stations and rail environment, while establishing a highly visible police and security presence. Amtrak Mobile Team security personnel and TSA agents were deployed to designated locations along the Northeast Corridor area to conduct security activities, including the use of explosive trace detection devices during random passenger bag inspections.

    Additionally, TSA's Visible Intermodal Prevention and Response Teams or VIPR Teams, were mobilized at undisclosed locations to enhance security activities through the use of specialized detection technologies that identify anomalies considered suspicious. The main focus of VIPR operations is to deploy TSA resources to augment local security capabilities and facilitate deterrence through coordinated actions with local transportation entities and law enforcement.

    "It is critical that we continue to expand and exercise our collective ability to respond to a terrorist threat or incident," said John Sammon, TSA assistant administrator, Transportation Sector Network Management (TSNM). "Today's event offers the opportunity to demonstrate in dramatic fashion the force potential and security enhancement value of regional collaboration as TSA joins its professional colleagues throughout the Northeast to increase familiarization with the local stations and provide a highly visible security presence during rush hour."

    Amtrak and TSA said similar unannounced exercises will occur in the future along the Northeast Corridor area as well as in other parts of our nation’s rail system as part of an enhanced security strategy. Today's exercise will be reviewed and used as a method to evaluate personnel and resources required to respond to any future threats or incidents within the railway system.

    Today's operation encompassed rail stations in 13 states, including Maine, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Vermont, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Delaware, Virginia, and West Virginia as well as the District of Columbia.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Watch the movieTwo Mules for Sister Sara to see why all of this is collosal waste of money and really just an exercise for cops to show the passengers who's boss and pat each other on the back while collecting more tax money.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    I don't think there is any authority to search peoplein Virginia.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Thundar wrote:
    I don't think there is any authority to search peoplein Virginia.
    Sure. Tell that to the TSA next time you go through Dulles airport.

    You may be right, but it doesn't matter.

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Anybody up for government run health care? From the fine folks who brought you the TSA and FEMA.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    I don't think there is any authority to search peoplein Virginia.
    Sure. Tell that to the TSA next time you go through Dulles airport.

    You may be right, but it doesn't matter.
    Sorry, I meant to say I don't think they have authority to search people for rail travel.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Thundar wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    I don't think there is any authority to search peoplein Virginia.
    Sure. Tell that to the TSA next time you go through Dulles airport.

    You may be right, but it doesn't matter.
    Sorry, I meant to say I don't think they have authority to search people for rail travel.
    Why not? What's the difference between a train station and an airport? Between Virginia and any other state? The TSA is federal animal and "after 9/11 everything changed", don't ya know.

    Now, I don't think they have any constitutional authority to search people anywhere, but what I wish and what is are not the same thing.

    TSA just hasto stickit outfor a generation or so, after which most young Americans will have been raised to feel as if getting pawed at when they get on a bus (yes, TSA has its sites set on buses, too) or a train is normal, and the rest of us give up, like we gave up on getting rid of the IRS, BATFE, Dept. of Education, etc., etc. etc.

    Sorry for being pessimistic, but this is a huge uphill battle.

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    I don't think there is any authority to search peoplein Virginia.
    Sure. Tell that to the TSA next time you go through Dulles airport.

    You may be right, but it doesn't matter.
    Sorry, I meant to say I don't think they have authority to search people for rail travel.
    Why not? What's the difference between a train station and an airport? Between Virginia and any other state? The TSA is federal animal and "after 9/11 everything changed", don't ya know.

    Now, I don't think they have any constitutional authority to search people anywhere, but what I wish and what is are not the same thing.

    TSA just hasto stickit outfor a generation or so, after which most young Americans will have been raised to feel as if getting pawed at when they get on a bus (yes, TSA has its sites set on buses, too) or a train is normal, and the rest of us give up, like we gave up on getting rid of the IRS, BATFE, Dept. of Education, etc., etc. etc.

    Sorry for being pessimistic, but this is a huge uphill battle.
    Train Stations don't have metal detectors and "secure areas" like airports (though I've never been to a train station in my life, and haven't been to an airport since 2002-2003.

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    nova wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    I don't think there is any authority to search peoplein Virginia.
    Sure. Tell that to the TSA next time you go through Dulles airport.

    You may be right, but it doesn't matter.
    Sorry, I meant to say I don't think they have authority to search people for rail travel.
    Why not? What's the difference between a train station and an airport? Between Virginia and any other state? The TSA is federal animal and "after 9/11 everything changed", don't ya know.

    Now, I don't think they have any constitutional authority to search people anywhere, but what I wish and what is are not the same thing.

    TSA just hasto stickit outfor a generation or so, after which most young Americans will have been raised to feel as if getting pawed at when they get on a bus (yes, TSA has its sites set on buses, too) or a train is normal, and the rest of us give up, like we gave up on getting rid of the IRS, BATFE, Dept. of Education, etc., etc. etc.

    Sorry for being pessimistic, but this is a huge uphill battle.
    Train Stations don't have metal detectors and "secure areas" like airports (though I've never been to a train station in my life, and haven't been to an airport since 2002-2003.
    Not yet, they don't. Although there is a big difference between DC's Union Station, which is laid out pretty much like an airport terminal, and most smaller town train stations, which are just little platforms next to the tracks. Which just makes my argument for me: this TSA crap is a total and complete joke, a smokescreen to fatten the budget of the agency, increase the power of its bureaucrats, and get travelers used to being compliant.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    I don't think there is any authority to search peoplein Virginia.
    Sure. Tell that to the TSA next time you go through Dulles airport.

    You may be right, but it doesn't matter.
    Sorry, I meant to say I don't think they have authority to search people for rail travel.
    Why not? What's the difference between a train station and an airport? Between Virginia and any other state? The TSA is federal animal and "after 9/11 everything changed", don't ya know.

    Now, I don't think they have any constitutional authority to search people anywhere, but what I wish and what is are not the same thing.

    TSA just hasto stickit outfor a generation or so, after which most young Americans will have been raised to feel as if getting pawed at when they get on a bus (yes, TSA has its sites set on buses, too) or a train is normal, and the rest of us give up, like we gave up on getting rid of the IRS, BATFE, Dept. of Education, etc., etc. etc.

    Sorry for being pessimistic, but this is a huge uphill battle.
    I think Danbus has the bus thing covered for Virginia!!
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Not yet, they don't. Although there is a big difference between DC's Union Station, which is laid out pretty much like an airport terminal, and most smaller town train stations, which are just little platforms next to the tracks. Which just makes my argument for me: this TSA crap is a total and complete joke, a smokescreen to fatten the budget of the agency, increase the power of its bureaucrats, and get travelers used to being compliant.
    All Hail the sheep hearders!

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Not yet, they don't. Although there is a big difference between DC's Union Station, which is laid out pretty much like an airport terminal, and most smaller town train stations, which are just little platforms next to the tracks. Which just makes my argument for me: this TSA crap is a total and complete joke, a smokescreen to fatten the budget of the agency, increase the power of its bureaucrats, and get travelers used to being compliant.
    Security theater

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    Not yet, they don't. Although there is a big difference between DC's Union Station, which is laid out pretty much like an airport terminal, and most smaller town train stations, which are just little platforms next to the tracks. Which just makes my argument for me: this TSA crap is a total and complete joke, a smokescreen to fatten the budget of the agency, increase the power of its bureaucrats, and get travelers used to being compliant.
    Security theater
    Theatre is merely harmless entertainment. We are being forced to play a role in this show, and those being entertained are the ones forcing us.

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    I just recently went on a business trip to Long Island, NY (unarmed... I felt naked) and TSA confiscated my antique zippo lighter, just because it had a butane torch insert. I had it in my checked luggage, which I thought would be okay. Apparently it wasn't, now I'll never see it again.



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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    I don't think there is any authority to search peoplein Virginia.
    Sure. Tell that to the TSA next time you go through Dulles airport.

    You may be right, but it doesn't matter.
    TH is right.... theyhave force you to be searched as you approach. They even search your bags if something looks funny inside during an x-Ray.

    Remove your shoes... walk through the metal detector....and I recall people were taken at random in the past and told to undress or strip down further being a partition.

    Under what authority does the TSA have to do this?

    Is it all on condition that if you wantto fly.... you have to do it?

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    They are expanding their kingdom to the rest of aviation... This is from the FedBizOpps website...

    R -- INTERNATIONAL GENERAL AVIATION (GA) SECURITY INITIATIVE [line]
    [line]
    General Information

    Document Type: Presolicitation Notice Solicitation Number: Reference-Number-MLS503 Posted Date: Jun 19, 2007 Original Response Date: Jun 26, 2007 Current Response Date: Jul 17, 2007 Original Archive Date: Aug 01, 2007 Current Archive Date: Aug 01, 2007 Classification Code: R -- Professional, administrative, and management support services Naics Code: 488190 -- Other Support Activities for Air Transportation Contracting Office Address Department of Homeland Security, Transportation Security Administration, Headquarters TSA, 601 S. 12th Street TSA-25, 10th Floor, Arlington, VA, 22202, UNITED STATES Description The Transportation Security Administration intends to award a firm-fixed price contract for services to 1) develop a security program for international aircraft to complement existing domestic security programs; 2) develop/implement a security regime for GA airport ground tenants (i.e. fixed based operators; 3) develop security action items for smaller GA aircraft and; 4) facilitation of DHS International GA Security programs & initiative.

    This requirement is set-aside for Small Business. The solicitation has been directed to five pre-selected contractors. Market research has indicated that these contractors can provide aviation security consulting, planning and design and meet security requirements. The contractors include the following:

    1. GHS Aviation Group, LLC, 1851 Stratford Park Place, Suite 402, Reston VA 20190
    2. Aerospace Services International, Inc., 14101 Parke Long Court, Suite V, Chantilly VA 20151
    3. Security Management Services International, Inc., 1168 Pan Court, Newbury Park CA 91320
    4. Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), 1800 K Street, NW, Washington, DC 20006
    5. Phaneuf Associates Inc., 2450 Crystal Drive, Suite 860, Arlington, VA 22202

    The associated North American Industry Classification System codes for this procurement are 541519 and 488190.

    If you are interested in receiving a copy of the solicitation when available or have any questions, please contact Shawn Gallagher, phone 571-227-4005, email shawn.gallagher@dhs.gov by June 26, 2007.
    Point of Contact Guy Galloway, Contracting Officer, Phone 571-227-3727, Fax 571-227-2911, Email guy.galloway@dhs.gov Place of Performance Address: 601 S. 12th St. Arlington, VA Postal Code: 22202 Country: UNITED STATES

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    72Malibu wrote:
    I just recently went on a business trip to Long Island, NY (unarmed... I felt naked) and TSA confiscated my antique zippo lighter, just because it had a butane torch insert. I had it in my checked luggage, which I thought would be okay. Apparently it wasn't, now I'll never see it again.

    It pays to read and plan ahead.

    http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrav...d-items.shtm#9


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    Amtrak Office of Security Strategy and Special Operations are all former Tier-2 Operators (SFUAC is a minimum requirement for employment) who make $120K+. Nice to see them earning their pay. [/sarcasm]

    However, Amtrak claims to being a private railroad and therefore bans the carrying of firearms on the train. This is a matter of significant discussion.

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    docwatson wrote:
    Amtrak Office of Security Strategy and Special Operations are all former Tier-2 Operators (SFUAC is a minimum requirement for employment) who make $120K+. Nice to see them earning their pay.
    Earning their pay as actors in the theater of 'security'.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    docwatson wrote:
    However, Amtrak claims to being a private railroad and therefore bans the carrying of firearms on the train. This is a matter of significant discussion.

    Amtrak tries to walk both sides of the line. We all know the real answer. AMTRAK is a government entity.

    Ever seen a private corporation with a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) office? Why doesAMTRAK have one? They know if they don't and try to pull the "we are a private corporation" crap they will not prevail.

    For the record AMTRAK's rules do not state that firearms are prohibited upon ones person, only in baggage.

    If AMTRAK were a private corporation, carrying upon their premises or train could onlybe a violation of thepolicy of a private corporation which cannot be a violation of law. If AMTRAK is a private corporation, then AMTRAK also does not have the ability to insert their rules into the U.S. Code.

    A very interesting analysis of who actually owns the tracks that AMTRAK operates upon in Virginia could be done. If any are Virginia Public Entities, I do not think that a lease or shared use lease could legally take away the universal right to open carry that we enjoy in Virginia.





    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Recently while atDulles Airport a LEO was walking thru the sceening process and was told that he could not carry a pair of small fingernail trimmingscissors.He had already identified himself as a LEO andpointed to his gun on his hip and said sarcasically "What about this?"The TSA airport guardthen told him "I don't care aboutabout that. Youcannot carry apair thosescissors!"

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    mlands wrote:
    Recently while atDulles Airport a LEO was walking thru the sceening process and was told that he could not carry a pair of small fingernail trimmingscissors.He had already identified himself as a LEO andpointed to his gun on his hip and said sarcasically "What about this?"The TSA airport guardthen told him "I don't care aboutabout that. Youcannot carry apair thosescissors!"
    Do you have a link to this? This is funny.

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    mlands wrote:
    Recently while atDulles Airport a LEO was walking thru the sceening process and was told that he could not carry a pair of small fingernail trimmingscissors.He had already identified himself as a LEO andpointed to his gun on his hip and said sarcasically "What about this?"The TSA airport guardthen told him "I don't care aboutabout that. Youcannot carry apair thosescissors!"
    Reminds me of going to the General Assembly building in Richmond. I went through the metal detectors with my handgun, showing my CHL as required, but they had to put my walking stick through the x-ray machine.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    mlands wrote:
    Recently while atDulles Airport a LEO was walking thru the sceening process and was told that he could not carry a pair of small fingernail trimmingscissors.He had already identified himself as a LEO andpointed to his gun on his hip and said sarcasically "What about this?"The TSA airport guardthen told him "I don't care aboutabout that. Youcannot carry apair thosescissors!"
    I work for TSA @ Dulles and this is completely 100% false.

    Before you think you have the right to criticize TSA for anything you hear or have experienced, you MUST work for TSA. Absolutely no other perspective allows you the knowledge to offeran informed opinion untill you have done so - sorry to be so blunt, but its true.

    Worked at Dulles for close to 5 years, in and arround TSA areas prior to actually working FOR them, and no one was more vocal and critical of them at the time...now, much much different.

    I'll be happy to answer any intelligent questions the best I can, however, you must understand that alot of info is considered "Need to know", which isn't government jargon, but rather, the first level of being "classified" information, hence alot cannot be made openly known.

    Be that as it may, ask away

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    Krato88 wrote:
    mlands wrote:
    Recently while atDulles Airport a LEO was walking thru the sceening process and was told that he could not carry a pair of small fingernail trimmingscissors.He had already identified himself as a LEO andpointed to his gun on his hip and said sarcasically "What about this?"The TSA airport guardthen told him "I don't care aboutabout that. Youcannot carry apair thosescissors!"
    I work for TSA @ Dulles and this is completely 100% false.

    Before you think you have the right to criticize TSA for anything you hear or have experienced, you MUST work for TSA. Absolutely no other perspective allows you the knowledge to offeran informed opinion untill you have done so - sorry to be so blunt, but its true.

    Worked at Dulles for close to 5 years, in and arround TSA areas prior to actually working FOR them, and no one was more vocal and critical of them at the time...now, much much different.

    I'll be happy to answer any intelligent questions the best I can, however, you must understand that alot of info is considered "Need to know", which isn't government jargon, but rather, the first level of being "classified" information, hence alot cannot be made openly known.

    Be that as it may, ask away
    Are my boarding passes and/or baggage tags marked to indicate I checked a firearm when I fly? Is that sort of thing monitored?

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