Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26

Thread: Burning down the house...

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Battle Creek, ,
    Posts
    559

    Post imported post

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU6fuFrdCJY Burning Down The House: What Caused Our Economic Crisis? Watch it to the end...

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    , Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    2,715

    Post imported post

    The credibility of that video goes hand-in-hand with the intelligence of the retards leaving comments on it.

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post

    AWDstylez wrote:
    SNIP The credibility of that video goes hand-in-hand with the intelligence of the retards leaving comments on it.
    I watched the first half of it.

    At least up until that point, almost all of the information in the video has already seen press again recently. The only two points I didn't recognize were the connectionto job losses prior to the meltdown, and another point I can't easily recall.

    I'd say itscredible. Viewers are invited to google points. One can always check it out further. In fact, it would probably be a good idea to get a fundamental grasp of the overall situation so politicians can be pressured.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Charlotte, North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    78

    Post imported post

    The cause? There are several. First, govt mandates from the 90's to get loans for those who can least afford them. Second, lenders all too willing to make the loans, knowing the risks of default. Third, fractional reserve banking. It leaves no room for errors on defaults. All it takes is 2-3% default rate and a bank can go under.

    And last but certainly not least: Our communistic central bank, the Federal Reserve. CENTRAL PLANNING DOES NOT WORK!! Since 9-11 interst rates have been artificially low and that creates excesses, malinvestment and bubbles. You dont end malinvestment by propping it up with bailouts.

    When government forces taxpayers to subsidize the banking industry,we taxpayershave less money to spend on other industries. This leads to capital and laborbeing driven from efficient industries and diverted to less efficient industries. The free market would never invest in less efficient industries. The propping up of these wasteful industries endswith less wealth creation. Consequently, the whole nation suffers.Government shouldlet the chips fall where they may.

  5. #5
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Navasota, Texas, USA
    Posts
    2,524

    Post imported post

    AWDstylez wrote:
    The credibility of that video goes hand-in-hand with the intelligence of the retards leaving comments on it.
    What about this one?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&NR=1
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Battle Creek, ,
    Posts
    559

    Post imported post

    rodbender wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    The credibility of that video goes hand-in-hand with the intelligence of the retards leaving comments on it.
    What about this one?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&NR=1
    I've seen that one, about two weeks ago actually and it too is a real eye opener of the Democrats trying to give stuff to those who could not afford it.:what:

    Then turning a blind eye to Republicans trying to tell them there is a problem with their grand plan.

    Now they try and place the blame upon the present administration and basically any and all Republicans boy what a bunch of lier's (no news flash there).

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    166

    Post imported post

    This is the end result of all fiat currencies. It was inevitable. The events of the last decade certainly sped things up, but they didn't cause it.

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    , Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    2,715

    Post imported post

    rodbender wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    The credibility of that video goes hand-in-hand with the intelligence of the retards leaving comments on it.
    What about this one?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&NR=1


    That's from 2004, correct? IIRC the republicans had control of the House, Senate, and had Bush in office. So reminded me again why they didn't stop it if they were so against it?

    I've said it a million times so why not make it one million and one: it's EVERYBODY'S fault. I never said the democrats weren't at fault, but blaiming them entirely is idiotic. There's plenty of blame to go around and finger pointing is just masking the many issues involved. I'd love for you make a case for it being 100% the fault of the CRA and its subsequent issues. That HELPED the sub-prime crisis. No one actually forced those people to take loans and, aside from that, the sub-prime crisis is just one of many causes for our current state. And, in addition to the fact that the sub-prime crisis isn't the only cause, there are reasons that the sub-prime crisis itself turned into a bigger deal than it should/could have. That's where the issues with deregulation come in.



    Can someone merge this thread with the other financial crisis thread? We're havingthe exact same discussion in both of them and it'll save everyone repeating themselves.

  9. #9
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Navasota, Texas, USA
    Posts
    2,524

    Post imported post

    AWDstylez wrote:
    That's from 2004, correct? IIRC the republicans had control of the House, Senate, and had Bush in office. So reminded me again why they didn't stop it if they were so against it?
    Uh???? because the senate requires 60 votes to bring a bill to the floor for a vote?? The democrats are in the process of crashing the economy. Why? because if it crashes the crime rate will go through the roof. That will give them the excuse to call for confiscation of all arms and replace our Constitutional Republic with a dictatorship, with none other thanObama at the helm. He just happens to be the guy in charge at the time, or so they hope. And this man is the epitome of Marxism.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    , Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    2,715

    Post imported post

    rodbender wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    That's from 2004, correct? IIRC the republicans had control of the House, Senate, and had Bush in office. So reminded me again why they didn't stop it if they were so against it?
    Uh???? because the senate requires 60 votes to bring a bill to the floor for a vote?? The democrats are in the process of crashing the economy. Why? because if it crashes the crime rate will go through the roof. That will give them the excuse to call for confiscation of all arms and replace our Constitutional Republic with a dictatorship, with none other thanObama at the helm. He just happens to be the guy in charge at the time, or so they hope. And this man is the epitome of Marxism.


    For a second there I thought there was going to be a reasonable dialog.... then you went all tin foil hat on me. :quirky Horray for wedge issues. They work exactly as designed.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    2,247

    Post imported post

    That was a 10 minute video that could have just as easily been 30 seconds. Anyone who doesn't realize how we got into the mess is an idiot and there is plenty of blame to go around on both sides. If Pelosi says the dems aren't to blame then she is lying through her teeth and the repubs aren't totally without blame. Most of is it is the idiots thatbelieved it whenthey were told that they could pay for a $900,000 house at $500 per month. Most of all I blame TV shows like "Flip that house" for fooling the public into false hope of getting rich quick with their pyramid schemes.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    166

    Post imported post

    rodbender wrote:
    That will give them the excuse to call for confiscation of all arms and replace our Constitutional Republic with a dictatorship, with none other thanObama at the helm. He just happens to be the guy in charge at the time, or so they hope. And this man is the epitome of Marxism.
    I think you may be overestimating their ability to think in multiple steps. The emergence of the police state is entirely stigmergic in nature.

    Instead ofconceptualizing world affairs as though it were a giant chessboard (with the obvious implication that there is a chess master manipulating the pieces), you should instead view it as a flock of pigeons. Hundreds (or thousands, or millions) of individual actors, all consumed with self-interest and taking cues from their neighbors in the flock. The result is an huge flock of birds that all turn and rise and fall in unison, despite the lack of leadership beyond the immediate needs of the individual. It is a self-organizing construct.

    The most likely scenario is that the lawmakers (who only want to protect their own asses) caved to the banking industry lobbyists (who only want to protect their own asses) who were acting under pressure from their shareholders and creditors (who only want to protect their own asses). Are we seeing the trend?

    For most people, strategic thinking rarely extends beyond step 1 "What is the immediate result?". Congress is no different.

    Make no mistake here. There may be actors within the flock who can think beyond step 1. They are capable of influencing the consensus, sometimes greatly. But they cannot direct it. Again, consider the flock. If an individual detects a predator and veers away from the flock, he risks exposing himself to the predator. The rest of the flock will not follow. If however he gently invades the space of the surrounding flock members, he can influence the flight path of his neighbors, who then invade the flight space of their neighbors, until consensus spreads throughout the flock and a change in flight path is achieved.

    This is why politics are often dominated by the fringe. Governance from within the consensus is isolated from external stimuli, and ultimately unable to affect the consensus. Fringe members however, are likened to the fringe members of a flock. They can see the predators or food, and are able to guide the flock.

    This is also why "grassroots" movements tend to be so effective. Rather than focusing on flock consensus, individuals focus on nearby neighbors.A successful grassroots campaign will create a positive feedback loop, whereby influence is perpetuated through the flock in small incriments.

    Of course, if you really want to understand stigmergy, you should consider the work of Pierre-Paul Grosse. He was a French zoologist who first introduced the world to the concept in his 2400 page work on termites, "Termitologia".

  13. #13
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,961

    Post imported post

    Obama did it.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  14. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193

    Post imported post

    I view the users of 'proactive' with distrust, imagine what might be thought of the Obamanation 'stigmergy'.

    canadian wrote:
    the police state is entirely stigmergic in nature.

    Of course, if you really want to understand stigmergy, you should consider the work of Pierre-Paul Grosse. He was a French zoologist who first introduced the world to the concept in his 2400 page work on termites, "Termitologia".
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigmergy

    An editor has expressed concern that this article may be documenting a neologism.
    This new term needs more reliable sources.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Battle Creek, ,
    Posts
    559

    Post imported post

    Doug Huffman wrote:
    I view the users of 'proactive' with distrust, imagine what might be thought of the Obamanation 'stigmergy'.

    Funny you should write that. I was just listening to Shawn Hanady on Sirius 144 and he had the author of the book "The Obama Nation" N the guy made some real strong accusations about Obama and his ties with the extremist Muslims of Kenya, all within the last few months. He was arrested and kicked out of Kenya for doing research on chapter 4 of his book and is presently in London and has his proof.

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193

    Post imported post

    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081008/D93MFL900.html

    Time to start firing (recalling) sheriffs. Look to the discussions of property rights here on OCDO vis a vis trespass.

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Lobelville, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    2,615

    Post imported post

    AWDstylez wrote:
    rodbender wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    That's from 2004, correct? IIRC the republicans had control of the House, Senate, and had Bush in office. So reminded me again why they didn't stop it if they were so against it?
    Uh???? because the senate requires 60 votes to bring a bill to the floor for a vote?? The democrats are in the process of crashing the economy. Why? because if it crashes the crime rate will go through the roof. That will give them the excuse to call for confiscation of all arms and replace our Constitutional Republic with a dictatorship, with none other thanObama at the helm. He just happens to be the guy in charge at the time, or so they hope. And this man is the epitome of Marxism.


    For a second there I thought there was going to be a reasonable dialog.... then you went all tin foil hat on me. :quirky Horray for wedge issues. They work exactly as designed.
    I don't see rodbender's remarks as "going tin foil hat". He apparently seems to know his history. The Nazi party was able to take over in Germany due to economic stress. First, Germany was hit with mandated reporations to be paid to the Allied countries after WWI. The Nazi movement gained some strength for a few years, until the economy improved in the mid 20's via foriegn investors. Then the stock market crash of 1929 tumbled the economies of the world. It was during the Depression that Hitler was able to gain the greatest following, promising to raise the new Third Reich out of the rubble and onto glory.

    "A society ignorant of history is doomed to repeat it."

    Any society that comes under severe economic stress is weakened to resist the lies of tyrants, to get relief from their suffering.

  18. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    , Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    2,715

    Post imported post

    Task Force 16 wrote:
    I don't see rodbender's remarks as "going tin foil hat". He apparently seems to know his history. The Nazi party was able to take over in Germany due to economic stress. First, Germany was hit with mandated reporations to be paid to the Allied countries after WWI. The Nazi movement gained some strength for a few years, until the economy improved in the mid 20's via foriegn investors. Then the stock market crash of 1929 tumbled the economies of the world. It was during the Depression that Hitler was able to gain the greatest following, promising to raise the new Third Reich out of the rubble and onto glory.

    "A society ignorant of history is doomed to repeat it."

    Any society that comes under severe economic stress is weakened to resist the lies of tyrants, to get relief from their suffering.


    If the American government was a cook it wouldn't be able to boil water. If you think they're capable orchestratinga mass conspiracy, including a worldwideeconomic crash, just to take your guns... then you give them far too much credit and yourself far too much priority. The government has bigger fish to fry than taking your pee shooters.

    See canadian's post for a more probable explanation.

  19. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    107

    Post imported post

    AWDstylez wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    I don't see rodbender's remarks as "going tin foil hat". He apparently seems to know his history. The Nazi party was able to take over in Germany due to economic stress. First, Germany was hit with mandated reporations to be paid to the Allied countries after WWI. The Nazi movement gained some strength for a few years, until the economy improved in the mid 20's via foriegn investors. Then the stock market crash of 1929 tumbled the economies of the world. It was during the Depression that Hitler was able to gain the greatest following, promising to raise the new Third Reich out of the rubble and onto glory.

    "A society ignorant of history is doomed to repeat it."

    Any society that comes under severe economic stress is weakened to resist the lies of tyrants, to get relief from their suffering.


    If the American government was a cook it wouldn't be able to boil water. If you think they're capable orchestratinga mass conspiracy, including a worldwideeconomic crash, just to take your guns... then you give them far too much credit and yourself far too much priority. The government has bigger fish to fry than taking your pee shooters.

    See canadian's post for a more probable explanation.
    yet you believe that bush and/or the govt was responsible for 9/11 and/or a plane didn't hit the pent

    hilarious

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    , Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    2,715

    Post imported post

    Johnny Bliss/johnnyb/tipsymcstagger/jopencarrywrote:
    yet you believe that bush and/or the govt was responsible for 9/11 and/or a plane didn't hit the pent

    hilarious
    I always wonder why I have a new retard following me around this forum every week making arguments that don't make any sense. NowI realize it's always you. I don't really care that you keepgetting banned and making new names, butin the future, let me know it's you so I don't waste my time.

    I believe it was obvious that they knew about itand let it happen, maybe helped. And I'm still waiting to see the security tapes of the plane that hit the Pentagon. None of that is relevant to this topic however.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Eagle, Idaho, USA
    Posts
    282

    Post imported post

    AWDstylez wrote:
    Johnny Bliss/johnnyb/tipsymcstagger/jopencarrywrote:
    yet you believe that bush and/or the govt was responsible for 9/11 and/or a plane didn't hit the pent

    hilarious
    I always wonder why I have a new retard following me around this forum every week making arguments that don't make any sense. NowI realize it's always you. I don't really care that you keepgetting banned and making new names, butin the future, let me know it's you so I don't waste my time.

    I believe it was obvious that they knew about itand let it happen, maybe helped. And I'm still waiting to see the security tapes of the plane that hit the Pentagon. None of that is relevant to this topic however.
    Sounds like an American asking legitimate questions that the .gov doesn't (for some bizarre reason) want to answer.

    Dosn't sound like a Tinfoil Hat Nut to me.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Alexandria, Virginia, United States
    Posts
    2,290

    Post imported post

    AWDstylez wrote:
    Johnny Bliss/johnnyb/tipsymcstagger/jopencarrywrote:
    yet you believe that bush and/or the govt was responsible for 9/11 and/or a plane didn't hit the pent

    hilarious
    I always wonder why I have a new retard following me around this forum every week making arguments that don't make any sense. NowI realize it's always you. I don't really care that you keepgetting banned and making new names, butin the future, let me know it's you so I don't waste my time.

    I believe it was obvious that they knew about itand let it happen, maybe helped. And I'm still waiting to see the security tapes of the plane that hit the Pentagon. None of that is relevant to this topic however.

    LISTEN STYLES YOU DOPE. I DRIVE A TAXICAB IN THE DC AREA AND I SAW THE GODDAM PLANE GO IN. I swore I would never respond to your jejune parroting of leftist talking points but you say an OP has "gone all tinfoil hat" and THEN you come up with this 911 truther bullcrap??? YOU are the guy with the damned tinfoil hat. Everybody should start ignoring you starting RIGHT NOW. You open-carry a pop-gun.


  23. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    , Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    2,715

    Post imported post

    Alexcabbie wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    Johnny Bliss/johnnyb/tipsymcstagger/jopencarrywrote:
    yet you believe that bush and/or the govt was responsible for 9/11 and/or a plane didn't hit the pent

    hilarious
    I always wonder why I have a new retard following me around this forum every week making arguments that don't make any sense. NowI realize it's always you. I don't really care that you keepgetting banned and making new names, butin the future, let me know it's you so I don't waste my time.

    I believe it was obvious that they knew about itand let it happen, maybe helped. And I'm still waiting to see the security tapes of the plane that hit the Pentagon. None of that is relevant to this topic however.

    LISTEN STYLES YOU DOPE. I DRIVE A TAXICAB IN THE DC AREA AND I SAW THE GODDAM PLANE GO IN. I swore I would never respond to your jejune parroting of leftist talking points but you say an OP has "gone all tinfoil hat" and THEN you come up with this 911 truther bullcrap??? YOU are the guy with the damned tinfoil hat. Everybody should start ignoring you starting RIGHT NOW. You open-carry a pop-gun.



    Never saida plane didn't go in. I just said I want to see the tapes. Where did all the tapes go? There's a whole host of things surrounding 9/11 that don't add up and we may never know why.

    However, that's grossly off-topic. Leave it to you to drop in and make a totally non-relevant post.


    Oh, and it's styleZ with a Z. Thank you. :P:quirky

  24. #24
    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Etzenricht, Germany
    Posts
    1,598

    Post imported post

    Doug Huffman wrote:
    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081008/D93MFL900.html

    Time to start firing (recalling) sheriffs. Look to the discussions of property rights here on OCDO vis a vis trespass.
    This is nothing more than pandering on the sheriff's part.
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,882

    Post imported post

    Canadian makes some interesting points. It's worth noting that the Communist party members propernever amounted to more than about 10% of the population of the Soviet Union, yet they emerged as a world power readily enough. It is typical that such fringe elements are able to leverage their positions in times of strife/turmoil. The failure of the Weimar Republic and the world-wide economic collapse gave Hitler et al. the opportunity to exploit the situation, with considerable success.

    Welcome to the forum.



    Thought for the day:

    "Ultimately all the questions boil down to one -
    Whether we as a people will try fearfully and futilely to preserve
    democracy by adopting totalitarian methods, or whether in accordance
    with our traditions and our constitution we will have the
    confidence and courage to be free."
    Hugo L. Black
    Barenblatt V US 1959


    -ljp


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •