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Concealed Permit and Schools

LEO 229

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Thundar wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
Thundar wrote:
If you have a concealed handgun permit and the handgun is concealed in the vehicle, then I think you are O.K. When you leave the vehicle you no longer possess it and you are still O.K. When you return to the vehicle you again possess it, you are still O.K.

As I read it containers are only for entry onto school propertyby those without a CHP.

What am I missing?
A ticket?? :uhoh:

Unless you are there with the gun for a school sponsored event... you MUST keep the gun in the vehicle.
Yes LEO I agree you must leave the handgun in the vehicle, that is what the thread is about.

Let me be clear.

If you have a CHP, conceal the gun IN THE VEHICLE, park in the school parking lot and leave the gun IN THE VEHICLE, what law has been broken?

When you are in the car you are allowed to conceal. When you leave the vehicle you are no longer in possession of the handgun. When you return to the vehicle you are allowed to conceal.
I am thinking that you CANNOT leave a loaded and unattended gun in a car.

Check this line out.....

"person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle"

The line indicates that "while in the motor vehicle" ... you can possess a concealed handgun. (Presumed to be loaded).

So I think if you exit... you are no longer "in a motor vehicle" and therefore it would have to be unloaded and stored since you cannot take it with you.

But I am no lawyer... :lol:
 

VAopencarry

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exemptions:

(vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; or

(vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school.

Person arrives exempted under (vii), then switches to (vi) exemption by unloading and locking it up before exiting the vehicle.

Doesn't seem that complicated to me. Can anyone explain why this scenario will not work?
 

LEO 229

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VAopencarry wrote:
exemptions:

(vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; or

(vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school.

Person arrives exempted under (vii), then switches to (vi) exemption by unloading and locking it up before exiting the vehicle.

Doesn't seem that complicated to me. Can anyone explain why this scenario will not work?
That is my take on it. As long as the guns remain in the vehicle.
 

2a4all

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So how do you unload and lock the firearm in the trunk without exposing the firearm and exiting the vehicle (to access the trunk) with the firearm in your possession?
 

Thundar

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LEO 229 wrote:
Thundar wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
Thundar wrote:
If you have a concealed handgun permit and the handgun is concealed in the vehicle, then I think you are O.K. When you leave the vehicle you no longer possess it and you are still O.K. When you return to the vehicle you again possess it, you are still O.K.

As I read it containers are only for entry onto school propertyby those without a CHP.

What am I missing?
A ticket?? :uhoh:

Unless you are there with the gun for a school sponsored event... you MUST keep the gun in the vehicle.
Yes LEO I agree you must leave the handgun in the vehicle, that is what the thread is about.

Let me be clear.

If you have a CHP, conceal the gun IN THE VEHICLE, park in the school parking lot and leave the gun IN THE VEHICLE, what law has been broken?

When you are in the car you are allowed to conceal. When you leave the vehicle you are no longer in possession of the handgun. When you return to the vehicle you are allowed to conceal.
I am thinking that you CANNOT leave a loaded and unattended gun in a car.

Check this line out.....

"person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle"

The line indicates that "while in the motor vehicle" ... you can possess a concealed handgun. (Presumed to be loaded).

So I think if you exit... you are no longer "in a motor vehicle" and therefore it would have to be unloaded and stored since you cannot take it with you.

But I am no lawyer... :lol:
If you exit, but do not take the handgun then it is no longer in your posession. No possession = no crime:)
 

Thundar

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LEO,

I just thought of something. If I were to go to my son's school with my shotgun in the rifle rack, unloaded, and parked in the school parking lot and went into the building, leaving the unloaded shotgun in the rifle rack for everyone to see, what crime would have been committed?


I don't advocate leaving firearms in vehicles, but I am asking about crimes.
 

Venator

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Are you saying you can't, with a CPL, have a loaded gun and drive to the school to drop off your kid, and then realize you need to go into the school, just unload your firearm and lock it in your trunk, then go inside????

Can't a teacher drive to school with a loaded gun and unload it in the vehicle and then store it in a trunk or a locked container then go into the school then unlock and load up for the ride home. Federal law allows for guns to be on school property if it's unloaded and secured, for people going to or coming from hunting or target practice. So what's the difference.
 

LEO 229

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Thundar wrote:
LEO,

I just thought of something. If I were to go to my son's school with my shotgun in the rifle rack, unloaded, and parked in the school parking lot and went into the building, leaving the unloaded shotgun in the rifle rack for everyone to see, what crime would have been committed?


I don't advocate leaving firearms in vehicles, but I am asking about crimes.
No crime....

According to the code.... it would be OK.



a person who possesses


  • an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or
  • an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; or
 

LEO 229

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Venator wrote:
Are you saying you can't, with a CPL, have a loaded gun and drive to the school to drop off your kid, and then realize you need to go into the school, just unload your firearm and lock it in your trunk, then go inside????

Can't a teacher drive to school with a loaded gun and unload it in the vehicle and then store it in a trunk or a locked container then go into the school then unlock and load up for the ride home. Federal law allows for guns to be on school property if it's unloaded and secured, for people going to or coming from hunting or target practice. So what's the difference.

If you have a CC permit you can being a loaded gun onto the property as long as you do not exit the vehicle.

If you want to go inside... You must store the unloaded gun in the car.
 

Thundar

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Venator wrote:
Are you saying you can't, with a CPL, have a loaded gun and drive to the school to drop off your kid, and then realize you need to go into the school, just unload your firearm and lock it in your trunk, then go inside????

YMMV,

The crime is possession. By loaded gun I will assume you mean handgun. If you conceal the handgun and leave it in the vehicle while going inside, then there is no crime. When you leave the car you are no longer in possession.

If you exit the vehicle with the handgun to put it in the trunk I think that you have technically committed a felonybecause you, the container and the handgun are not in or upon the vehicle.

I know it is stupid. No crime for leaving the gun under your seat. A felony for trying to properly store the weapon.:banghead:

IANAL, but I did pass 12th Grade English and I assume the law means what it says. (Could be a bad assumption on my part)
 

sccrref

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alnitak wrote:
This is a good thread. I often pick up my child in a car pool line, staying in the vehicle while carrying. However, every now and then, I need to briefly get out of the car to retrieve him from aftercare. In that case, I generally just slide the gun under the seat and lock the vehicle. Based on this thread, that makes me doing something illegal. I would have to have a locked container with me in the front seat, unload the weapon, then lock it up in the container before exiting the vehicle. Since I drive an SUV, without a trunk, I don't need to exit the vehicle to lock up the gun.

Would this process make me legal?
The statute does not specify locked. It says closed.
 

mobeewan

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Something to think about that no one has addressed. Being a teacher she is employed by the school and the school system and subject to the employers rules regarding the posession of firearms on the school property by an employee. So if the school or school system says employees cannot posses them in their vehicles in compliance with state law the whole thing is moot. Personally if it was me, and I was a teacher,I would make sure I was incompliance with state law and keep my mouth shut. Don't ask, Don't tell.
 

Thundar

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mobeewan wrote:
Something to think about that no one has addressed. Being a teacher she is employed by the school and the school system and subject to the employers rules regarding the posession of firearms on the school property by an employee. So if the school or school system says employees cannot posses them in their vehicles in compliance with state law the whole thing is moot. Personally if it was me, and I was a teacher,I would make sure I was incompliance with state law and keep my mouth shut. Don't ask, Don't tell.

That could be negated by a employee parking lot law like the one in Florida (withoutFlorida's stupid exemptions)

Flame Suit On - I know, I know Private property rights, yada, yada...I really think the automobile is an extension of ones home.
 
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