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Thread: BMWAG harrassed and summoned after Council Meeting by Norfolk PD again!!!!

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    NATO Doctrine in Effect - This is not a drill, Repeat this is not a drill

    Yikes!!!!!

    From VCDL Update:

    You're not going to believe what happened again last night, but please read on.
    Last night over 60 VCDL members showed up at the Norfolk City Council meeting to protest the Norfolk PD harassing a VCDL member, Danladi Moore, who was open carrying on a bus.
    A link to coverage by the Virginian-Pilot, along with video, is at the end of this alert.
    After the meeting, a dozen of us, including Danladi Moore, went to a restaurant in the Waterside Mall. We had a great time - good company and good conversation. All of us were open carrying as the restaurant sold alcoholic beverages.
    As I left the restaurant I said goodnight to Danladi as he and a friend were heading up an escalator to the second floor.
    Little did I know what was about to transpire in the next 50 seconds...
    Upon reaching the second floor and stepping off the escalator, a Norfolk police officer approached Danladi and his friend and told him that he couldn't have a gun in a public building.
    NOTE: It is my understanding that they Waterside Mall is actually owned or partially owned by the City of Norfolk. If so, they CANNOT ban guns there, of course.
    Danladi said that, especially as public property, he most certainly could carry there.
    The officer the handcuffed Danladi, who is black, and issued a him summons with a charge of trespass at that point and released him. His friend, who is white and also open carrying, was escorted off the premises and not handcuffed or charged. Hmmmm.
    Boy, Norfolk PD just seems to be digging themselves in deeper and deeper. I know that Dennis O'Connor, John Fenter, Richard Popkin, and I walked past several officers while open carrying at that mall and not a word was said to us.
    On top of all this, I was approached by a 20ish black man after the meeting, who said he had been open carrying as he walked down a street in his neighborhood in Norfolk and an officer stopped him and asked him about his openly carried handgun. The officer ask him for ID, which he wasn't carrying (no need for a driver's license if you are not driving). The gun owner did give his name and social security number to the officer.
    He said the officer told him that since he couldn't show proof that he owned the handgun he was carrying, the officer was going to confiscate the gun and charge him. Of course there is NO requirement to show that you own the gun you're carrying. So, not surprisingly, the actual charge was (are you sitting down?) carrying a CONCEALED handgun!!! I saw the summons that the gun owner had with him.
    Unbelievable. The officer sees the gun and then charges him with having a concealed handgun.
    An attorney was there and I hooked the two up.
    Of course, keep in mind there are two sides to each story and I have not heard the officer's side. Hopefully, whatever the truth is, it will come out in court.
    Finally, the City is requiring anyone who enters the Norfolk City Council building to sign in and show ID. If you don't show photo ID, they photograph you! Both requirements and the photograph are illegal under Virginia's Freedom of Information law. That is because they can be viewed as intimidation or road blocks to entry.
    VCDL members were refusing to show ID and, at first, the guards were blocking admission to them. Then, all of a sudden, the guards let everybody in without any interference at all. The guards just stood there shaking their heads...
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    When it's all said and done, Dan will be driving around in a Rolls with the VCDL logo on the door and BMWAG vanity plates...
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Hours after Norfolk City Hall visit, gun advocate is detained


    NORFOLK


    Hours after guns-rights activists marched on City Hall to demand police leave them alone, they said one was charged after refusing an order to leave Waterside because he was openly carrying a weapon.


    Danladi Moore – whom the city paid $10,000 in July to avoid litigation after being stopped by police for suspected weapons violations – was charged with trespassing at the downtown entertainment complex Tuesday night.


    The 24-year-old Hampton resident said police told him to leave because he had a gun. Moore said he refused because the law allows him to display a weapon in public places. He said he was handcuffed, charged and led out of the building.


    Norfolk police spokesman Officer Chris Amos confirmed that a summons was issued but declined to comment further.


    Waterside receives city funding but is officially owned by a private entity, Waterside Associates, whose partners include the Norfolk Redevelopment and Housing Authority, said NRHA assistant executive director John Kownack. Its policy prohibits weapons, yet weapons are not included on a list of prohibitions posted at Waterside’s entrances, he added.


    The incident happened after about a dozen members of the Virginia Citizens Defense League finished dinner at the Hooters restaurant at Waterside. Earlier, they had joined about 50 others at a City Council meeting to complain that their rights had been violated by police.


    Most of them were openly carrying guns, but only Moore and his two friends were approached, members of the group said.


    Philip Van Cleave, who leads the guns-rights group and was with Moore at Waterside but did not witness the exchange, said it was unbelievable.


    “I don’t see a conspiracy here – I see more ineptness,” he said. “And there may well be prejudice too.”


    Moore is black. Van Cleave and most of the others are white.


    Moore said a friend who was with him at Waterside also was carrying a gun and also had challenged police when asked to leave. He said his friend, who is white, was not charged.


    John Pierce, co-founder of the national group OpenCarry.org, said, “Even if this was a perfectly innocent mistake, the timing could not have been worse.”


    Debbie Messina, (757) 446-2588, debbie.messina@pilotonline.com


    Source URL (retrieved on 10/08/2008 - 21:40): http://hamptonroads.com/2008/10/hour...ocate-detained

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    It really looks like they have it in for Dan, especially when they arrest him and let his armed companion go free. Funny how they were in the vicinity of Dan and his friends right after Dan & co. made them look dumb again at the council meeting. I hope his buddy had a voice recorder going. Seriously, we may have to provide a VCDL escort complete with camcorder to shadow Dan whenever he goes out to the store to get milk and bread. This has to stop.

    (PS.: This is why I won't show up for an OC dinner at a place like Hooters. Not the best PR to have that fact show up in the newspaper. Just my take on it.)

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    Regular Member Bulldog1967's Avatar
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    If I were Dan, I'd be suing ofr civil rights violations.

    The first post-civil war "gun laws" were specifically designed to keep black people from defending themselves against the white dixiecrats.

    Time to give the asshats in Norfolk a smack down.

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    Words fail me. All I can say is

    Go get 'em, Dan!!


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Hey Dan,

    When you own the City, I'd like to be a Lieutenant or Captainin the Police Department. Nothing top end, just some nice middle management type job where I can ride a desk and make important decisions like "pizza, or Chinese?". Some nice little corner office where I can push papers for the next 11 years to get my retirement and fly under the radar.

    Can ya help a fella out?


    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
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    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    Hey Dan,

    When you own the City, I'd like to be a Lieutenant or Captainin the Police Department. Nothing top end, just some nice middle management type job where I can ride a desk and make important decisions like "pizza, or Chinese?". Some nice little corner office where I can push papers for the next 11 years to get my retirement and fly under the radar.

    Can ya help a fella out?

    I want to be city historian. The money saved from firing EVERY cop involved in these little stunts could be used to put on some wondering historical events.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    As much as I'd like to hear the gory details, I hope Dan keeps quiet. At this point, Dan needs a REAL lawsuit and he needs to win. If he doesn't, they will keep establishing adverse contacts and criminal charges, even if dropped. You know how the news puts it,,,he was no stranger to the NPD....

    At some point, an officer will decide Dan is reaching for his weapon during one of these episodes ....and kill him!

    This has gotten serious!
    1+
    I'll be sure to attend next time.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Thundar wrote:
    NATO Doctrine in Effect - This is not a drill, Repeat this is not a drill

    Yikes!!!!!

    *From VCDL Update:

    You're not going to believe what happened again last night, but please read on.
    *Last night over 60 VCDL members showed up at the Norfolk City Council meeting to protest the Norfolk PD harassing a VCDL member, Danladi Moore, who was open carrying on a bus.
    A link to coverage by the Virginian-Pilot, along with video, is at the end of this alert.
    After the meeting, a dozen of us, including Danladi Moore, went to a restaurant in the Waterside Mall.* We had a great time - good company and good conversation.* All of us were open carrying as the restaurant sold alcoholic beverages.
    As I left the restaurant I said goodnight to Danladi as he and a friend were heading up an escalator to the second floor.
    Little did I know what was about to transpire in the next 50 seconds...
    Upon reaching the second floor and stepping off the escalator, a Norfolk police officer approached Danladi and his friend and told him that he couldn't have a gun in a public building.
    NOTE:* It is my understanding that they Waterside Mall is actually owned or partially owned by the City of Norfolk.* If so, they CANNOT ban guns there, of course.
    Danladi said that, especially as public property, he most certainly could carry there.
    The officer the handcuffed Danladi, who is black, and issued a him summons with a charge of trespass at that point and released him.* His friend, who is white and also open carrying, was escorted off the premises and not handcuffed or charged.* Hmmmm.
    Boy, Norfolk PD just seems to be digging themselves in deeper and deeper.* I know that Dennis O'Connor, John* Fenter, Richard Popkin, and I walked past several officers while open carrying at that mall and not a word was said to us.
    On top of all this, I was approached by a 20ish black man after the meeting, who said he had been open carrying as he walked down a street in his neighborhood in Norfolk and an officer stopped him and asked him about his openly carried handgun.* The officer ask him for ID, which he wasn't carrying (no need for a driver's license if you are not driving).* The gun owner did give his name and social security number to the officer.
    He said the officer told him that since he couldn't show proof that he owned the handgun he was carrying, the officer was going to confiscate the gun and charge him.* Of course there is NO requirement to show that you own the gun you're carrying.* So, not surprisingly, the actual charge was (are you sitting down?) carrying a CONCEALED handgun!!!* I saw the summons that the gun owner had with him.
    Unbelievable.* The officer sees the gun and then charges him with having a concealed handgun.
    An attorney was there and I hooked the two up.
    Of course, keep in mind there are two sides to each story and I have not heard the officer's side.* Hopefully, whatever the truth is, it will come out in court.
    Finally, the City is requiring anyone who enters the Norfolk City Council building to sign in and show ID.* If you don't show photo ID, they photograph you!* Both requirements and the photograph are illegal under Virginia's Freedom of Information law.* That is because they can be viewed as intimidation or road blocks to entry.
    VCDL members were refusing to show ID and, at first, the guards were blocking admission to them.* Then, all of a sudden, the guards let everybody in without any interference at all.* The guards just stood there shaking their heads...
    I agree if the stories are true then the police messed up big time. However, I fail to see why race was once again brought up. How many times have we seen white people get mistreated by the police in regards to OC and CC?? I don't see "so and so was asked for his ID and by the way he was white" in all the other stories. I just think throwing in the race aspect overshadows the issue of what happened. If anything I would say the word on Dan is out and there may be an issue with him personally rather than the race issue.

    On another note, what the hell is up with that city??? Some northern Va counties had issues with illegal immigration and held hearings. Most people coming in were admittedly illegal!!! They didn't have to show ID and they weren't taken out by the police. Unreal.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    nitrovic wrote:
    I agree if the stories are true then the police messed up big time. However, I fail to see why race was once again brought up. How many times have we seen white people get mistreated by the police in regards to OC and CC?? I don't see "so and so was asked for his ID and by the way he was white" in all the other stories. I just think throwing in the race aspect overshadows the issue of what happened. If anything I would say the word on Dan is out and there may be an issue with him personally rather than the race issue.

    On another note, what the hell is up with that city??? Some northern Va counties had issues with illegal immigration and held hearings. Most people coming in were admittedly illegal!!! They didn't have to show ID and they weren't taken out by the police. Unreal.
    All I can say is that there is a race issue. It is only part of the story, but it is there. Norfolk is a city where they do whatever they please. Violating the Virginia Open Meeting Laws? So what. Pass illegal law "no guns at Harborfest" so what.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    nitrovic wrote:
    I agree if the stories are true then the police messed up big time. However, I fail to see why race was once again brought up.
    They are true.

    Race? Re-read the account and I'm SURE you can come up with the reason that Dan's race is being mentioned. Hint: Pay close attention to how the WHITE guy that was with him was not charged.

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    nitrovic wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    The officer the handcuffed Danladi, who is black, and issued a him summons with a charge of trespass at that point and released him. His friend, who is white and also open carrying, was escorted off the premises and not handcuffed or charged. Hmmmm.
    I agree if the stories are true then the police messed up big time. However, I fail to see why race was once again brought up. How many times have we seen white people get mistreated by the police in regards to OC and CC?? I don't see "so and so was asked for his ID and by the way he was white" in all the other stories. I just think throwing in the race aspect overshadows the issue of what happened. If anything I would say the word on Dan is out and there may be an issue with him personally rather than the race issue.

    On another note, what the hell is up with that city??? Some northern Va counties had issues with illegal immigration and held hearings. Most people coming in were admittedly illegal!!! They didn't have to show ID and they weren't taken out by the police. Unreal.
    Invincible ignorance or intentionally blind.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Funny how they were in the vicinity of Dan and his friends right after Dan & co. made them look dumb again at the council meeting. I hope his buddy had a voice recorder going.
    That would be me. The guy who was told I did not need to sign in "because you're handicapped." Parked in the handicapped zone on the Waterside Dr. side of City Hall & banged on the door with my cane until they came down so I could ask that they unchain & open the entrance there so I could get in. (Yes, the Fire Marshall was notified of the door being chained.)

    DVR was not turned on, as the encounter was not deemed worthy. As we came out the Waterside Drive door, we saw a NPD cop sitting in the circle. He seemed to be chit-chatting with theTV news truck crew.Jokingly asked him if he was our City Council-rule escort - he said he had no knowledge of the rule and asked for info on/about it.

    Spent several minutes talking about the we-must-be-escorted rule and the history of Dan's encounters with NPD. Cop was open to learning more and asked for our ideas of what WE thought might have been "more appropriate" responses from the cops involved. All in all it seemed to be a positive encounter and a chance to educateone of the NPD who did not seem to be opposed to OC or Dan.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    nitrovic wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    The officer the handcuffed Danladi, who is black, and issued a him summons with a charge of trespass at that point and released him.* His friend, who is white and also open carrying, was escorted off the premises and not handcuffed or charged.* Hmmmm.
    I agree if the stories are true then the police messed up big time. However, I fail to see why race was once again brought up. How many times have we seen white people get mistreated by the police in regards to OC and CC?? I don't see "so and so was asked for his ID and by the way he was white" in all the other stories. I just think throwing in the race aspect overshadows the issue of what happened. If anything I would say the word on Dan is out and there may be an issue with him personally rather than the race issue.

    On another note, what the hell is up with that city??? Some northern Va counties had issues with illegal immigration and held hearings. Most people coming in were admittedly illegal!!! They didn't have to show ID and they weren't taken out by the police. Unreal.
    Invincible ignorance or intentionally blind.
    I'm sure you've seen your share of police involved racism Dougie, considering 98% of people are white in your town. AND the crime rate is literally 0. You are indeed the expert on all things law enforcement Dougie, good job buddy.

    Like I said Dougie (I'll explain in little boy terms so you can understand), they probably have a problem with DAN. Hence, his friend (who is not Dan), was told to leave. Obviously word gets out about stuff like this.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    nitrovic wrote:
    Doug Huffman wrote:
    nitrovic wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    The officer the handcuffed Danladi, who is black, and issued a him summons with a charge of trespass at that point and released him. His friend, who is white and also open carrying, was escorted off the premises and not handcuffed or charged. Hmmmm.
    I agree if the stories are true then the police messed up big time. However, I fail to see why race was once again brought up. How many times have we seen white people get mistreated by the police in regards to OC and CC?? I don't see "so and so was asked for his ID and by the way he was white" in all the other stories. I just think throwing in the race aspect overshadows the issue of what happened. If anything I would say the word on Dan is out and there may be an issue with him personally rather than the race issue.

    On another note, what the hell is up with that city??? Some northern Va counties had issues with illegal immigration and held hearings. Most people coming in were admittedly illegal!!! They didn't have to show ID and they weren't taken out by the police. Unreal.
    Invincible ignorance or intentionally blind.
    I'm sure you've seen your share of police involved racism Dougie, considering 98% of people are white in your town. AND the crime rate is literally 0. You are indeed the expert on all things law enforcement Dougie, good job buddy.
    Nitrovic, two years ago Norfolk made a special law banning guns at the African American Festival in Norfolk. Completely Illegal, but done at the behest of the Norfolk P.D.

    Sometimes I disagree with LEO 229, but I do not bash police, I have great respect for most of them. I really hope that this problem is seen for what it is.

    Norfolk really does still have this ugly problem.

    If you do not believe me, come here and see for yourself. I did andit really changed my mind on this issue.

    Hurling insults at each other will not help us discuss, understand or develop plans to effect change. It will only lead to locked threads.


    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    From VCDL


    *************************************

    2. Story on Norfolk's arrest of Danladi Moore after City Council meeting

    *************************************

    http://tinyurl.com/3o39ge

    Hours after Norfolk City Hall visit, gun advocate is detained

    By Debbie Messina

    The Virginian-Pilot

    (c) October 8, 2008

    NORFOLK

    Hours after guns-rights activists marched on City Hall to demand police leave them alone, they said one was charged after refusing an order to leave Waterside because he was openly carrying a weapon.

    Danladi Moore
    whom the city paid $10,000 in July to avoid litigation after being stopped by police for suspected weapons violations was charged with trespassing at the downtown entertainment complex Tuesday night.

    The 24-year-old Hampton resident said police told him to leave because he had a gun. Moore said he refused because the law allows him to display a weapon in public places. He said he was handcuffed, charged and led out of the building.

    Norfolk police spokesman Officer Chris Amos confirmed that a summons was issued but declined to comment further.

    Waterside receives city funding but is officially owned by a private entity, Waterside Associates, whose partners include the Norfolk Redevelopment and Housing Authority, said NRHA assistant executive director John Kownack. Its policy prohibits weapons, yet weapons are not included on a list of prohibitions posted at Waterside’s entrances, he added.

    The incident happened after about a dozen members of the Virginia Citizens Defense League finished dinner at the Hooters restaurant at Waterside. Earlier, they had joined about 50 others at a City Council meeting to complain that their rights had been violated by police.

    Most of them were openly carrying guns, but only Moore and his two friends were approached, members of the group said.

    Philip Van Cleave, who leads the guns-rights group and was with Moore at Waterside but did not witness the exchange, said it was unbelievable.

    "I don’t see a conspiracy here
    I see more ineptness," he said. "And there may well be prejudice too."

    Moore is black. Van Cleave and most of the others are white.

    Moore said a friend who was with him at Waterside also was carrying a gun and also had challenged police when asked to leave. He said his friend, who is white, was not charged.

    John Pierce, co-founder of the national group OpenCarry.org, said, "Even if this was a perfectly innocent mistake, the timing could not have been worse."



    The story says it is private property. Is this true?

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    I'm sure you've seen your share of police involved racism Dougie, considering 98% of people are white in your town. AND the crime rate is literally 0. You are indeed the expert on all things law enforcement Dougie, good job buddy.

    Like I said Dougie (I'll explain in little boy terms so you can understand), they probably have a problem with DAN. Hence, his friend (who is not Dan), was told to leave. Obviously word gets out about stuff like this.
    I moved here from Charleston, South Carolina where I learned policing from Chief Roddy Perry and his staff (H/T Stan Gragg and Chief Harry Sewell) and Chief Reuben Greenberg, my neighbor at the marina.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuben_Greenberg
    Reuben Greenberg, born in 1943, was the first Black police chief of Charleston, South Carolina, and known for being an innovative criminologist. He was police chief there from 1982 [1] until his retirement in 2005 [2].

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    Malum Prohibitum wrote:
    From VCDL




    The story says it is private property. Is this true?
    Depends on who you ask.....not sure there is a clear cut answer to this question.

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    Well if he gets a sizable sum out of this, and I hope he does, I think a silver Beemer would go better with the BMW-AG tag

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    Besides that little slum outsidethe fence of theformer Navy Base, Charleston, SCis not exactly the crime capital of the South.

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    Besides that little slum outsidethe fence of theformer Navy Base, Charleston, SCis not exactly the crime capital of the South.

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    How many of you on here are getting caught up with GERTZ on pilotonline? I think he is just on there to start up controversy and keep us all fired up! Any thoughts?

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    Just because a government body hires a private company to run a facility which they partly or fully own doesn't exempt that government body from adherence to requirements imposed on them by law.

    Some towns here in New Hampshire tried that sort of thing with respect to shooting on town-owned lands, trying to get around statewide preemption by asserting "property rights" under the law, as if they were you or I prohibiting people from shooting from our back porches.

    It's nonsense here, and it's nonsense there.

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    9,193

    Post imported post

    tripledipper wrote:
    Besides ...
    "Besides" what please?

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