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Thread: Firearm restrictions at South Mountain Park

  1. #1
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    I've noticed signs at South Mountain Parkstate that carry is only allowed by those posessing a valid concealed carry license. Is that legal?

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    Yep it's the one exemption to the state's preemption law. Carry on parks can be restricted- except to those who carry a valid CCW.

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    From the wording on the signs, it seemed that you didn't have to conceal carry, only that you had to have a license to carry. Any ideas there?

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    Not sure, but the law doesn't say it has to be concealed. The law specifically says:

    ARS 13:3108.5
    5. Limiting firearms possession in parks or preserves of one square mile or less in area to persons who possess a concealed weapons permit issued pursuant to section 13-3112. The political subdivision shall post reasonable notice at each park or preserve. The notice shall state the following: "Carrying a firearm in this park is limited to persons who possess a permit issued pursuant to section 13-3112." In parks or preserves that are more than one square mile in area, a political subdivision may designate developed or improved areas in which the political subdivision may limit firearms possession to persons who possess a concealed weapons permit issued pursuant to section 13-3112. The political subdivision shall post reasonable notice at each designated developed or improved area. The notice shall state the following: "Carrying a firearm in this developed or improved area is limited to persons with a permit issued pursuant to section 13-3112." For the purposes of this paragraph, "developed or improved area" means an area of property developed for public recreation or family activity, including picnic areas, concessions, playgrounds, amphitheaters, racquet courts, swimming areas, golf courses, zoos, horseback riding facilities and boat landing and docking facilities. Developed or improved area does not include campgrounds, trails, paths or roadways except trails, paths and roadways directly associated with and adjacent to designated developed or improved areas. Any notice that is required by this paragraph shall be conspicuously posted at all public entrances and at intervals of one-fourth mile or less where the park, preserve or developed or improved area has an open perimeter. Any limitation imposed by a political subdivision pursuant to this paragraph shall not apply to a person:

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the information.

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    You status as a CCW holder exempts you from park ban, you may OC or CCW, but you have to have a permit.

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    Note Kids, If the sign does not include (contain) the enabling statute number;

    IT IS NOT VALID!

    Example most have seen a "Disabled Parking" signs. The sign is bogus and unenforceable, IF the enabling statute number does not appear. Alot of folks will paint their own signs close to their place of business 'so they have a parking place'

    I am "disabled & what I'll do if I see a bogus sign, is park behind the car, call the cops, wait, watch the guy get massive fine for fake sign (no need to prove he made the sign) Just that he uses it. (Ignorance of the law, etc.)

    By the same token if I need a space and all the valid Disabled spaces are filled with non- qualifying cars, I do the same thing. A*& ho#@? Nope, I need it! & I earned it. Semper Fi

  8. #8
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    I've seen many park signs stating "No weapons allowed" period. However, the CCW permit overrides any such signage.



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    Protector: You know I am not an atty, and I certainly have never claimed to be. I can make statements re: ie..."Disability Parking Signage" because it affects me directly, and I have researched that law. The same was true before the signage re: firearms in parks was changed. At one point many park signs contained no mentions of firearms or other weapons. Then there was a rush to paint (on park signs) that you could not discharge a firearm in a park. This was stupid because if I found it necessary to fire a gun in a park - there would have beenthe issue of my killing someone in self defense! I certainly would not have fired unless necessary. That would over ride the sign issue even if the sign was legal. That sign and the sign addressing fireworks were invalid because they lacked a notation of the enabling legislation. The same was true in those parks where signs reading no weapons allowed were not valid

    THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN A "NO FIRARMS" SIGN IN A PARK, VERSUS A SIGN IN A PLACE OF BUSINESS! ***HERE IS THE LINE IN THE SAND***

    PARKS = PUBLIC PROPERTY

    A BUSINESS = PRIVATE PROPERTY

    We have learned by now, that just as a homeowner makes the rulers in his home; the business owner has that same right. The only way around it is to make it apparent that it is to his advantage to have trained, honest folks armed while in his business.

    When I go into a business armed and happen to see another person carrying, I always feel an additional layer of safety. NOTE: I always try to make mutual eye contact with that person, so we both know of the presence of the other!

    Alec411

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    everytime ihave taken a drive up there.. i swear every gang member in phoenix was up there.... i couldnt imagine going up there without my 357 sig

  11. #11
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    Hired Gun

    That's one valid point. I wouldn't either. That place is crawling with Lil Gangbangers!

    Alec

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    Notso wrote:
    I've noticed signs at South Mountain Parkstate that carry is only allowed by those posessing a valid concealed carry license. Is that legal?
    Is South Mountain park a local park or a state park?

    Typically preemption stautes only apply to localities, and state statutes and agency regulations would control state parks.

    Posters need to identify the type of park they are referring to, as well as any source of law which makes gun carry there unlawful, before we even consider any preemption doctrine.

  13. #13
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    Mike wrote:
    Notso wrote:
    I've noticed signs at South Mountain Park¬*state that carry is only allowed by those posessing a valid concealed carry license. Is that legal?
    Is South Mountain park a local park or a state park?¬*

    Typically preemption stautes only apply to localities, and state statutes and agency regulations would control state parks.

    Posters need to identify the type of park they are referring to, as well as any source of law which makes gun carry there unlawful, before we even consider any preemption doctrine.
    South Mountain is a city of Phoenix venture so it will be preempted.

    http://phoenix.gov/parks/hikesoth.html

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