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Thread: Needed some carriers in Tennessee today

  1. #1
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    http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/10/09/....ap/index.html

    Where were the people who were packing?

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    You should tell that to your legislators.

    Dale

  3. #3
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    isn't that one of the mall groups that doesn't allow weapons?

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    allegedly, he was one of Tennessee's legal carriers. this isn't going to put CC/OC here in a good light....

    http://www.wate.com/Global/story.asp...6&nav=E8Yy

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    jopencarry wrote:
    isn't that one of the mall groups that doesn't allow weapons?
    Surely not, because if it were, there's no way this could've happened! :X

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    http://www.wate.com/Global/story.asp...6&nav=E8Yy
    KNOXVILLE (WATE) -- Although police haven't released a motive yet, the mother of the suspect in the Knoxville Center Mall shooting says her son was a "displeased customer" of the menswear store where an employee was killed.

    Gladys Johnson, who spoke to 6 News by phone Thursday,says she was shocked when she learnedher son, William Johnson,was charged in the shooting at Reno Menswear.

    A Renoemployee, Ahmad Nahl, wasshot and killedWednesday afternoon. William Johnson is charged with onecount offelony murder.

    Gladys Johnsonsays there wasan ongoing incident between her son and the storeover three suits he purchased there for a total ofnearly$1,000.

    She saystwo of the suits weretailored incorrectly and the third suit wasmisplaced,buther son was denied a refund.

    Gladys Johnsonsaysher sonhas a handgun permit, butrarely carried a gun.

    Sheadds thathedoesn'thave a temper and always makes people laugh.

    William Johnson was charged withassaultin Knox County in 1991. However, the chargewas later dismissed.

    His mother also says he's the father ofa seven-year-old child.

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    unreconstructed1 wrote:
    allegedly, he was one of Tennessee's legal carriers. this isn't going to put CC/OC here in a good light....

    http://www.wate.com/Global/story.asp...6&nav=E8Yy
    Okay, authorities are now saying that they don't believe that he has an HCP after all.

    Investigators believe Johnson doesn't have a concealed weapon permit. Mall management decides whether guns are allowed inside.
    http://www.wate.com/global/story.asp?s=9154386

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    unreconstructed1 wrote:
    unreconstructed1 wrote:
    allegedly, he was one of Tennessee's legal carriers. this isn't going to put CC/OC here in a good light....

    http://www.wate.com/Global/story.asp...6&nav=E8Yy
    Okay, authorities are now saying that they don't believe that he has an HCP after all.

    Investigators believe Johnson doesn't have a concealed weapon permit. Mall management decides whether guns are allowed inside.
    http://www.wate.com/global/story.asp?s=9154386
    Hopefully it is the case that he does NOT have a CC license.

    This is a great example of why we need to be armed. Even though the LEOs did a phenomenal job in responding and ending the situation in 4 minutes, for the store employee, 4 minutes was way too long and if he had turned the gun on other customers, 4 minutes would have been an eternity.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    deepdiver wrote:
    This is a great example of why we need to be armed. Even though the LEOs did a phenomenal job in responding and ending the situation in 4 minutes, for the store employee, 4 minutes was way too long and if he had turned the gun on other customers, 4 minutes would have been an eternity.
    The seconds that it takes to draw and engage to defend yourself could seem like an eternity. Four minutes is forever when the situation demands NOW.

    Note to deepdiver - OK, Got your back now.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    jopencarry wrote:
    isn't that one of the mall groups that doesn't allow weapons?
    can anyone confirm that, cause Simon owns like every mall in the country...around here at least
    "Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

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    According to the WATE story above:
    "The state Department of Safety says Johnson doesn't have a handgun carry permit."

    Funny how there are sooooo many OC/CC'ers in this country and when this happens, there's not a single armed soul around.
    I guess it's a case of "wrong place, wrong time".


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    Evil Ernie wrote:
    Funny how there are sooooo many OC/CC'ers in this country and when this happens, there's not a single armed soul around.
    I guess it's a case of "wrong place, wrong time".
    There was a guy who was OCing there. Right on the spot. Lumpy Lambert.

    Knox County Commissioner Greg "Lumpy" Lambert said today he talked briefly face-to-face with the man accused of gunning down a store worker at Knoxville Center Mall just before police arrived.

    "I did speak with the suspect," Lambert said this morning. "He was still in the store. He didn't say anything about the shooting, but I observed he was armed.

    "It appeared to be a medium-sized handgun, probably a 9 mm or a .40-caliber. He didn't point it at me, so I didn't draw down on him."



    Evil Ernie wrote:
    "The state Department of Safety says Johnson doesn't have a handgun carry permit."
    Just another goof with a gun...

  13. #13
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    PT111 wrote:

    http://www.wate.com/Global/story.asp...6&nav=E8Yy
    KNOXVILLE (WATE) -- Although police haven't released a motive yet, the mother of the suspect in the Knoxville Center Mall shooting says her son was a "displeased customer" of the menswear store where an employee was killed.

    Gladys Johnson, who spoke to 6 News by phone Thursday,says she was shocked when she learnedher son, William Johnson,was charged in the shooting at Reno Menswear.

    A Renoemployee, Ahmad Nahl, wasshot and killedWednesday afternoon. William Johnson is charged with onecount offelony murder.

    Gladys Johnsonsays there wasan ongoing incident between her son and the storeover three suits he purchased there for a total ofnearly$1,000.

    She saystwo of the suits weretailored incorrectly and the third suit wasmisplaced,buther son was denied a refund.

    Gladys Johnsonsaysher sonhas a handgun permit, butrarely carried a gun.

    Sheadds thathedoesn'thave a temper and always makes people laugh.

    William Johnson was charged withassaultin Knox County in 1991. However, the chargewas later dismissed.

    His mother also says he's the father ofa seven-year-old child.
    Trying to figure out why you would change the above line. It reads in the article as below.

    The state Department of Safety says Johnson doesn't have a handgun carry permit.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    rodbender wrote:
    PT111 wrote:
    http://www.wate.com/Global/story.asp...6&nav=E8Yy
    snip.........

    Gladys Johnsonsaysher sonhas a handgun permit, butrarely carried a gun.
    Trying to figure out why you would change the above line. It reads in the article as below.

    The state Department of Safety says Johnson doesn't have a handgun carry permit.
    Disinformation is by any definition disinformation.

    We must constantly be alert for such as this. Good catch Rodbender.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  15. #15
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    PT111 wrote:

    http://www.wate.com/Global/story.asp...6&nav=E8Yy
    KNOXVILLE (WATE) -- Although police haven't released a motive yet, the mother of the suspect in the Knoxville Center Mall shooting says her son was a "displeased customer" of the menswear store where an employee was killed.

    Gladys Johnson, who spoke to 6 News by phone Thursday,says she was shocked when she learnedher son, William Johnson,was charged in the shooting at Reno Menswear.

    A Renoemployee, Ahmad Nahl, wasshot and killedWednesday afternoon. William Johnson is charged with onecount offelony murder.

    Gladys Johnsonsays there wasan ongoing incident between her son and the storeover three suits he purchased there for a total ofnearly$1,000.

    She saystwo of the suits weretailored incorrectly and the third suit wasmisplaced,buther son was denied a refund.

    Gladys Johnsonsaysher sonhas a handgun permit, butrarely carried a gun.

    Sheadds thathedoesn'thave a temper and always makes people laugh.

    William Johnson was charged withassaultin Knox County in 1991. However, the chargewas later dismissed.

    His mother also says he's the father ofa seven-year-old child.
    Although I have no idea why the change was made to the written article, the information that the mother said he had a permit comes from a news video about the incident.
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

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    rodbender wrote:
    Trying to figure out why you would change the above line. It reads in the article as below.

    The state Department of Safety says Johnson doesn't have a handgun carry permit.
    The article originally read as PT posted it, however once they found out that he didn't have one, the article was edited in order to show the truth.

    do you really believe that they would just randomly post that he didn't have a permit? They never concede that fact unless necessary.

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    unreconstructed1 wrote:
    rodbender wrote:
    Trying to figure out why you would change the above line. It reads in the article as below.

    The state Department of Safety says Johnson doesn't have a handgun carry permit.
    The article originally read as PT posted it, however once they found out that he didn't have one, the article was edited in order to show the truth.

    do you really believe that they would just randomly post that he didn't have a permit? They never concede that fact unless necessary.
    Thank you. THAT makes sense. I've seen other sites update their articles online, so I should have remembered that.
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    unreconstructed1 wrote:
    rodbender wrote:
    Trying to figure out why you would change the above line. It reads in the article as below.

    The state Department of Safety says Johnson doesn't have a handgun carry permit.
    The article originally read as PT posted it, however once they found out that he didn't have one, the article was edited in order to show the truth.

    do you really believe that they would just randomly post that he didn't have a permit? They never concede that fact unless necessary.
    OK, I didn't have the opportunity to read the original article.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    rodbender wrote:
    OK, I didn't have the opportunity to read the original article.
    no problem. Tennesee "journalists" are notorious for throwing something out there quickly that will be "sensational" only to correct themselves as quietly as humanly possible, if at all.

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    I did not change that line in the article, evidently the news staff did. I copied it exactly as it was written.

    If you notice I posted it on Oct. 9 and the article in the link says it was updated on Oct. 10.

    I would have no reason to make such a change and there were several posts about whether or not he had a permit.

  21. #21
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    HardChrome wrote:
    Where were the people who were packing?
    Guy was right there, packing. On the spot.

    He (Lambert)even talked to the shooter after he had shot the store clerk. The story is a little hazy as to why he didn't do anything else. Looks like he elected to not draw but serve as a good witness instead. That may have been a very good choice, it's hard to tell from the report, although Lambert's comment indicates he believed he wasnot the right man for the job.

    Certainly, for a LAC who is packing, it's not always a good thing to pull out the ole pistola and start pointing it and/or shooting it. Sometimes, it is best to just keep it in the holster and stay out of the way. Let the pros handle it.

    Actually, the gun carrying community looks good on this one. Lambert used his judgment to avoid armed engagement even though his gun was instantly available to him.

    Of course, sometimes it is quite appropriate for the CC/OCer to deploy a firearm. Even mandatory. Alas, this Tennessee case wasn't one of them.





    Lambert says he spoke to suspect in shooting

    Commissioner had gun during visit to Knoxville Center
    By Matt Lakin (Contact)
    Friday, October 10, 2008



    Knox County Commissioner Greg "Lumpy" Lambert

    Police came running to the scene of the shots, but Lumpy says he got there first.

    Knox County Commissioner Greg "Lumpy" Lambert said he'd gone to Knoxville Center mall on Wednesday to see the dentist then heard the commotion and shouts that someone had been shot. He says he got to the Reno Mens Wear store just in time to talk face to face with the man accused of gunning down a clerk.

    "I did speak with the suspect," Lambert said Thursday. "He was still in the store. He didn't say anything about the shooting, but I observed he was armed.

    "It appeared to be a medium-sized handgun, probably a 9 mm or a .40-caliber. He didn't point it at me, so I didn't draw down on him."

    Lambert represents Northwest Knox County's 6th District and carries a special deputy card issued by the Knox County Sheriff's Office. The commissioner, who says he always carries a gun, had brought his Kel-Tec .380-caliber pistol to the mall with him.

    It's the same gun Lambert used two years ago to chase off a would-be robber from his car dealership in Powell. Authorities later charged the suspect in that incident with murder in the death of a Knoxville truck driver.

    Lambert said he didn't have glory on his mind as he bounded down the mall corridor.

    "I went running to see what I could do," he said. "I saw the mall security guards were unarmed."

    Lambert said he followed the guards to the store and got there about a minute before Knoxville Police Department officers arrived. Police say William Norman Johnson, 42, had just shot Ahmed Nahl, a 29-year-old clerk, after an argument over clothes Johnson bought there.

    "I could see part of the guy's body," Lambert said. "He was near the front of the store. I saw the guy was armed with a handgun. I asked him to put it down."

    The commissioner won't say exactly what Johnson said but says it was enough to make him realize the situation needed a delicate hand.

    "He didn't comply," Lambert said. "He was very agitated, and I backed out. I'm not a policeman, and I'm not a psychiatrist. I decided the best thing to do was to watch and report to law enforcement."

    Lambert said he tried to dial E-911 from his cell phone, couldn't get through, and ended up calling Sheriff Jimmy "J.J." Jones on speed-dial. He said he heard but didn't watch the gun battle with police.

    "I didn't see who shot first," Lambert said. "But I think the officers acted very professionally and quickly. I believe they did what they had to do. I drove myself to police headquarters afterward to be interviewed."

    Police didn't confirm Lambert's account but said he's given a statement and cooperated with investigators.

    "Mr. Lambert was there during a portion of this incident," KPD spokesman Darrell DeBusk said.

    Lambert said Johnson never showed any sign of trying to leave the store for a mall-wide rampage. He said he's glad he could offer his help.

    "It looked like an isolated incident to me," the commissioner said. "Whatever the situation was, I think it was just one guy.

    "Just because you have a carry permit, you're not going to stop a homicidal person from committing a violent act. But carry permits ensure there are more armed good guys in the vicinity."

    http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/oc...t-in-shooting/

  22. #22
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    PT111 wrote:
    I did not change that line in the article, evidently the news staff did. I copied it exactly as it was written.

    If you notice I posted it on Oct. 9 and the article in the link says it was updated on Oct. 10.

    I would have no reason to make such a change and there were several posts about whether or not he had a permit.
    Yes, I know now. unreconstructed1 told me of the edit. Although it does say the article was edited, it doesn't say what the edit was. My mistake. Be cool, dude.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    HardChrome wrote:
    Where were the people who were packing?
    Guy was right there, packing. On the spot.

    snip.....

    "It looked like an isolated incident to me," the commissioner said. "Whatever the situation was, I think it was just one guy.

    "Just because you have a carry permit, you're not going to stop a homicidal person from committing a violent act. But carry permits ensure there are more armed good guys in the vicinity."
    Excellant quote - there should be more like him.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  24. #24
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    HardChrome wrote:
    Where were the people who were packing?
    Guy was right there, packing. On the spot.

    snip.....

    "It looked like an isolated incident to me," the commissioner said. "Whatever the situation was, I think it was just one guy.

    "Just because you have a carry permit, you're not going to stop a homicidal person from committing a violent act. But carry permits ensure there are more armed good guys in the vicinity."
    Excellant quote - there should be more like him.

    Hey, Grapeshot!


    Does not seem OC related at all.

    Yata hey


  25. #25
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Hey, Grapeshot!

    Does not seem OC related at all.

    Yata hey
    I did not originate the thread.

    What's the "T" stand for now that your treatments are over?

    Ya-ta-hay
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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