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Thread: Guns in cars

  1. #1
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    What exactly are the laws regarding driving with a gun in the car? I have a CHP, but im curious about the law both with a CHP and without.

    -Without a CHP, can a rifle (loaded, unloaded?) be carried unconcealed in the car? Does haveing a CHP make a difference (maybe mag capacity...)?

    -What about concealed in the car, both with and without a CHP? What if its in an unlocked rifle case in the back seat, or under a seat? What if its locked?

    -What about in the trunk? Can it be unocked, loaded, etc?


    I am also curious about laws regarding the carrying of pepper spray/oc. Is there any age requirement? Can minors carry it? Any restricted locations?

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    § 15.2-1209.1. This section empowers the governing body of any county to adopt ordinances making it unlawful for any person to carry or have in his possession, for the purpose of hunting, while on any part of a public highway within such county a loaded firearm when such person is not authorized to hunt on the private property on both sides of the highway along which he is standing or walking; and to provide a penalty for violation of such ordinance not to exceed a fine of $100. The provisions of this section shall not apply to persons carrying loaded firearms in moving vehicles or for purposes other than hunting, or to persons acting at the time in defense of persons or property.

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    § 15.2-915.2. This section empowers the governing body of any county or city to, by ordinance, make it unlawful for any person to transport, possess or carry a loaded shotgun or loaded rifle in any vehicle on any public street, road, or highway within such locality. Any violation of such ordinance shall be punishable by a fine of not more than $100. Game wardens, sheriffs and all other law-enforcement officers shall enforce theprovisions of this section. No ordinance adopted pursuant to this section shall be enforceable unless the governing body adopting such ordinance so notifies the Director of the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries by registered mail prior to May 1 of the year in which such ordinance is to take effect. The provisions of this section shall not apply to duly authorized law-enforcement officers or military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, nor to any person who reasonably believes that a loaded rifleor shotgun is necessary for his personal safety in the course of his employment or business.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    § 15.2-1209.1. Counties may regulate carrying of loaded firearms on public highways.

    The governing body of any county is hereby empowered to adopt ordinances making it unlawful for any person to carry or have in his possession, for the purpose of hunting, while on any part of a public highway within such county a loaded firearm when such person is not authorized to hunt on the private property on both sides of the highway along which he is standing or walking; and to provide a penalty for violation of such ordinance not to exceed a fine of $100. The provisions of this section shall not apply to persons carrying loaded firearms in moving vehicles or for purposes other than hunting, or to persons acting at the time in defense of persons or property.
    So what if im not hunting? What if the guns unloaded? I've read that before, but I'm still lost.

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    Open carry and transporting them seems to be the same. Loaded and visible is allowed. You just cannot conceal them unless you have a permit.

    So you can have a rifle rack if you like.

    Now.. the other code I posted warns you that even if the state has no law to prohibit you transporting an openly displayed and loaded gun... some location may have enacted a law to prohibit it.

    So you better check each locality you drive in.


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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Open carry and transporting them seems to be the same. Loaded and visible is allowed. You just cannot conceal them unless you have a permit.

    So you can have a rifle rack if you like.

    Now.. the other code I posted warns you that even if the state has no law to prohibit you transporting an openly displayed and loaded gun... some location may have enacted a law to prohibit it.

    So you better check each locality you drive in.
    Is having a rifle in an unlocked case, on or under the back seat considered concealed? What about locked? And does a CHP exempt you, even though its a concealed handgun permit?

    If I'm not hunting, then that section does not apply, correct?

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    mpg9999 wrote:
    Is having a rifle in an unlocked case, on or under the back seat considered concealed? What about locked? And does a CHP exempt you, even though its a concealed handgun permit?

    If I'm not hunting, then that section does not apply, correct?
    18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.

    A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.

    B. This section shall not apply to any person while in his own place of abode or the curtilage thereof.

    Except as provided in subsection J1, this section shall not apply to:

    1. Any person while in his own place of business;

    2. Any law-enforcement officer, wherever such law-enforcement officer may travel in the Commonwealth;

    3. Any regularly enrolled member of a target shooting organization who is at, or going to or from, an established shooting range, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

    4. Any regularly enrolled member of a weapons collecting organization who is at, or going to or from, a bona fide weapons exhibition, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

    5. Any person carrying such weapons between his place of abode and a place of purchase or repair, provided the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

    .....Snipped

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.

    A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.

    B. This section shall not apply to any person while in his own place of abode or the curtilage thereof.

    Except as provided in subsection J1, this section shall not apply to:

    1. Any person while in his own place of business;

    2. Any law-enforcement officer, wherever such law-enforcement officer may travel in the Commonwealth;

    3. Any regularly enrolled member of a target shooting organization who is at, or going to or from, an established shooting range, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

    4. Any regularly enrolled member of a weapons collecting organization who is at, or going to or from, a bona fide weapons exhibition, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

    5. Any person carrying such weapons between his place of abode and a place of purchase or repair, provided the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

    .....Snipped
    And if I'm not going to any of those places? I guess the question is, when is the gun considered "about your person"? If it is in a case on the back seat, is that about your person? If its locked, is that about your person? And does a CHP also exempt you from concealing a rifle, not just a handgun?

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    mpg9999 wrote:
    And if I'm not going to any of those places? I guess the question is, when is the gun considered "about your person"? If it is in a case on the back seat, is that about your person? If its locked, is that about your person? And does a CHP also exempt you from concealing a rifle, not just a handgun?
    The code does not cover every situation where you could be transporting a gun.

    About your person is anywhere near by that you can easily reach.

    Back seat in case.. is about your person.

    Even if locked... it is about your person... just once more step to get it.

    I cannot answer the last one.... The permit clearly identifies a "handgun" and a rifle is not so easily to conceal. Personally.. I do not view it as to limit to a handgun. If you can CC a handgun... why not a rifle. But this is just my opinion.



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    LEO 229 wrote:

    The code does not cover every situation where you could be transporting a gun.

    About your person is anywhere near by that you can easily reach.

    Back seat in case.. is about your person.

    Even if locked... it is about your person... just once more step to get it.

    I cannot answer the last one.... The permit clearly identifies a "handgun" and a rifle is not so easily to conceal. Personally.. I do not view it as to limit to a handgun. If you can CC a handgun... why not a rifle. But this is just my opinion.

    So is in the trunk not about your person? If I understand correctly, if you don't have a CHP, and don't meet one of the other exemptions listed, your only options are to have the gun in the trunk, or visible?

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    mpg9999 wrote:
    So is in the trunk not about your person? If I understand correctly, if you don't have a CHP, and don't meet one of the other exemptions listed, your only options are to have the gun in the trunk, or visible?
    Sounds correct!!

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    The code does not cover every situation where you could be transporting a gun.

    About your person is anywhere near by that you can easily reach.

    Back seat in case.. is about your person.

    Even if locked... it is about your person... just once more step to get it.

    I cannot answer the last one.... The permit clearly identifies a "handgun" and a rifle is not so easily to conceal. Personally.. I do not view it as to limit to a handgun. If you can CC a handgun... why not a rifle. But this is just my opinion.

    Well, the Code also says that a handgun is "a firearm, not a machine gun, that fires multiple projectiles, yadda yadda yadda".....so in the definition, a rifle is a handgun and a shotgun is a handgun. Its a strange definition.
    James Reynolds

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    "Let all laws be clear, uniform and precise: to interpret laws is almost always to corrupt them" -Voltaire

    Why is it some people have problems remembering simple things like that?

    Stupid politicians...
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Bill in VA wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    Well, the Code also says that a handgun is "a firearm, not a machine gun, that fires multiple projectiles, yadda yadda yadda".....so in the definition, a rifle is a handgun and a shotgun is a handgun. Its a strange definition.
    No. it does not. There's no way to rationally interpret a "rifle" or "shotgun" as being the same asa "handgun" under state law.

    State code defines a handgun as "any pistol or revolver or other firearm, except a machine gun, originally designed, made and intended to fire a projectile by means of an explosion of a combustible material from one or more barrels when held in one hand." See § 18.2-308(M) Cutting out the extraneous BS, a handgun is one that is "originally designed, made and intended to fire a projectile... when held in one hand."

    FWIW, "pistol" is similarly defined, as "a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having one or more chambers as an integral part of or permanently aligned with the bore and a short stock at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore that is designed to be gripped by one hand." See § 29.1-100

    Under the same section, "rifle" and "shotgun" are also defined, and defined as "... a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder ..." "Rifle" and "shotgun" are also similarly defined under § 18.2-299

    yeah, you're right. By that definition, none of these could fit...













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    Bill in VA wrote:
    True. Moreover, that Streetsweeper is verboten in Virginia anyways.
    well, illegal or not, these shotguns can all be fired with one hand, thus imho they meet the definition of a handgun.
    James Reynolds

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    Bill in VA wrote:
    True. Moreover, that Streetsweeper is verboten in Virginia anyways.
    I thought it was only ones with drum magazines that can hold >= 12 (or 10 i forget)

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    Bill in VA wrote:
    ProShooterwrote:
    yeah, you're right. By that definition, none of these could fit...
    ProShooter wrote:
    well, illegal or not, these shotguns can all be fired with one hand, thus imho they meet the definition of a handgun.
    First things first, I did not say all of these shotgunsyou picturedare illegal/unlawful. What I said was that the "Streetsweeper is verboten in Virginia." One of your riduculously large photos was of an SWD Striker 12/"streetsweeper"; the otehrs are not. For the record, shotguns, sawed-off or otherwise,are lawful to possessunder state law, with the exception of the streetsweeper/Striker 12 and any other"semi-automatic folding stock shotgun ... with a spring tension drum magazine capable of holding twelve shotgun shells." See § 18.2-308.8

    And aside from just now contradicting yourself, the second thing you seem to have missed in reading what I wrote was that a handgun/pistol is not simply any firearm capable of being fired by one hand. Re-read my post or the statutes cited (they say the same thing): A handgun/pistol is a firearm designed and intended to be fired with one hand. I can fire my FAL with one hand, but it's not designed to be fired one-handed, nor was it intended to be fired one-handed.

    Ibelieve if you alsothink a little deeper on it as well, you'll see that a sawed-off shotgun also can't be a pistol/handgun because it started its life a shotgun...it was "originally designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder." (Op. Cit.) See also 18USC CH44 921(a)(3) firearm, (5)shotgun, (6) short-barreled-shotgun, (7) rifle, and (8) short-barreled-rifle, and (29)(A) handgun. For similar definitions under federal law, see26USC CH53 5845 (a)firearm, (c) shotgun/short-barreled-shotgun, and (d) rifle/short-barreled-rifle.as well as 27CFR 478.11 for definitions of all of these (rifle, shotgun, handgun) since VA state law mirrors/defers to the USC and CFR.

    Certainly no offense intended, but if you're going to advertise to folks that you offer classes on firearms' safety and concealed carry it might be useful to know the relevent statutes and regulations. You don't want to get your former students in legaltrouble by incorrectly advising themthat any firearm capable of being fired one-handed is a handgun (and thus could be carried under VA's concealed-carry permit.)
    Wow Bill, you managed to get every single thing wrong there... kudos!

    I did not say, that you said, that all the shotguns pictured were illegal. I am aware of your comment relating to the streetsweeper. I was not addressing the legality of the firearms pictured, but rather the fact that they all have a pistol type grip. The concept behind a pistol grip, is, are ya ready? It can be fired with one hand. That is the way that it was designed and intended, because using your own definition, it cannot be fired from the shoulder. Most handgun shooters use a two handed grip on their handgun. Was a handgun designed to be fired with one hand or two?

    Here's another nugget for ya...the definition says "Handgun" means any pistol or revolver or other firearm, except a machine gun, originally designed, made and intended to fire a projectile by means of an explosion of a combustible material from one or more barrels when held in one hand" - can you provide an explanation of what other type of firearm may have "one or more barrels"? Your reading of the defintion is also flawed because there is an obvious difference between "A handgun/pistol is a firearm designed and intended to be fired with one hand" and "Handgun" means any pistol or revolver or other firearm, except a machine gun, originally designed, made and intended to fire a projectile by means of an explosion of a combustible material from one or more barrels when held in one hand. If 'it can be fired when held in one hand" is the key. It doesnt have to be designed to be fired in one hand, only designed to fire a projectile. Your reading of the definition is wrong.

    Also, I did not contradict myself. You simply failed to see the sarcasm in my original statement. When I said "yeah, you're right. By that definition, none of these could fit..." I meant that sarcastically, because you are wrong. If we have an emoticon for sarcasm, I'll find it and be sure to use it next time. I'm sorry as well that my photos were ridiculous in your opinion. I borrowed them from the internet to provide you with a quick example. Next time I'll try to find something in a smaller size so as to not overload your sensory perception.

    I mean no offense either, but after 12 years of making arrests with a 100% conviction rate and standing in both District and Circuit Courts in both Henrico and Chesterfield and hearing cases and judicial decisions, I think that I've got a pretty good grasp of the relevent statutes and regulations. I've had numerous classes with criminal defense attorneysas my students and they have agreed with everything that I have stated. Some of my best friends are attorneys and we've had these discussions at length. If you view it differently, so be it.

    I never stated that any of these guns could be carried with a permit. You are the one bridging those points Bill. The entire point of my brief, original statement was to show how wacky Virginia laws can be.
    James Reynolds

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    ProShooter wrote:
    Bill in VA wrote:
    True. Moreover, that Streetsweeper is verboten in Virginia anyways.
    well, illegal or not, these shotguns can all be fired with one hand, thus imho they meet the definition of a handgun.
    Actually. NO. They are NOT designed to be fired with one hand.

    Each one has a fore grip installed.

    Just like you can use two hands to shoot a pistol.... you could also use one hand to shoot a shotgun or rifle.

    They are DESIGNED to be shot with either one or two hands... and it does not matterhow you COULD shoot them.

    Hell.. a car steering wheel is designed to be used with two hands..."10 and 2" Remember??? But it is possible to use just one hand or even a knee or no hands at all.

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    If someone wanted to store a gun in their locked car which is parked on the city streetfor self defence, can it remainon the seatin plain sight and can itbe loaded with out the owner being present? (Strongly not recomended, but is it legal?)

    Is leaving a visibleloadedgun on or off your property ina locked car violation of section 18.2-56.2. or would the lock on the car secure the gun even though its clearly visible in the cars window?

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    So if having a gun anywhere in the car is considered about your person, what if you have passengers? Are they all now carrying a concealed weapon?

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Hell.. a car steering wheel is designed to be used with two hands..."10 and 2" Remember??? But it is possible to use just one hand or even a knee or no hands at all.
    Actually since the advent of airbags it's now "8 and 4". The idea is you don't want the airbag to use your arm to break your face. Just tryin' to keep you straight (ouch)

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