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Thread: OC with a level 0 holster

  1. #1
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    There is an OC meet-up happening this weekend and I am interested in going. I am thinking about OCing, but am leaning toward just CCing as because my holster in an IWB with level 0 protection. I think I know the level system. It has a tension screw, but even if I tighten that down all the way, the gun can still be pulled out easily. If the holster is held upside down, the gun will slowly slide out. In my daily movement, the gun doesn't move at all.

    Does anyone OC with an open top holster, and if so, how easy/hard is it to get the gun out. Am I over thinking this, or should it really be a concern like I have?

    Just for information, the gun is a S&W 3914.

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    I have a Kydex IWB holster with nothing but a tensioning screw, that one I don't worry to much about because I only CC with it. I also have a leather OWB open top holster for my XD. The only retention is friction, but I have found the unless your draw is fairly straght it kinks and make it very difficult to get the gun out. Since I prefer a fairly strong forward cant, it makes it extremely difficult for anyone behind me or to the side to get the gun out of the holster.

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    Probably not a good idea to OC with a holster that does not have retention features, especially OWB. It may in some circumstances be acceptable to "Virginia Tuck" a formerly concealed IWBweapon (there are some places where you can't CC but can OC), but on the whole if you expect to have to OC, from a retention standpoint it is better to carry OWB in a retention holster.

    At your local Academy (or Cabela's or Bass Pro or Dick's orwhatever big-box sportsman's store is in your area), you should be able to find an Uncle Mike's cloththumb break holster for $20, ora Kydexthumb-break holster for a little more. Both are belt holsters that hold securely, and either will be perfectly serviceable, and once broken in they're as fast a draw as anything else.UM holstersjust don't have the bells and whistles you'd get from a more expensive holster like variable cant, pushbutton retention, out-of-box form fitting for your gun model, custom mounting,etc.

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    The number 1 weapon against a gun grab is you.

    Be aware of your surroundings, use your brain, and what type of holser you use will most likely never ever matter.

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    All of my holsters have some sort of retention system(most are Serpas) with the exception of my CC holster and the quickdraw holsters for my sixguns.

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    I am holding off OCing my S&W 686 because I don't yet have a retention holster. I wish I could find a button-press retention holster (Fobus, Serpa, etc.) for it, but I guess I'll have to settle for a thumb break.

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    Regular Member lprgcFrank's Avatar
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    I OC my 1911's with Comp-Tac Paddle's - they have a FBI cant and with the proper belt ride right in my side. My elbow is usually in contact with the top of the 1911.

    Situational awareness is critical when OC'ing this way - but I've been doing this for severla years with no issues.

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    Thanks for the replies. I think I just needed someone to "slap some sense into me". I didn't like the idea myself, but wanted to OC since it was a group meetup. Sometime I will have to get a thumb break holster for OC, or a newer gun that has an available kydex holster.

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    squarepeg wrote:
    Thanks for the replies. I think I just needed someone to "slap some sense into me". I didn't like the idea myself, but wanted to OC since it was a group meetup. Sometime I will have to get a thumb break holster for OC, or a newer gun that has an available kydex holster.
    I think you're being very responsible to give the question a high priority consideration.


    It makes total sense to not OC in a holster that lacks retention. That's why almost all LEOs are forced to use them. If it's a good enough idea for 800,000+ LEOs, it's a goodenough idea for you.

    It's a no brainer, actually. Someone might just try to grab your gun. Someone might just succeed. It ain't sensible to make it easier for someone to do that.

    Retention holstersshould be mandatory for OCing--either by law or by practice.

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    There are 351 posts referring to "grab". I recall a number challenging for a citation of any successful non-officer related grab. I don't recall any such citations of a successful non-officer related grab.

    Believe nothing you read or hear without verifying it yourself unless it fits your pre-existing worldview.

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    I choose "by practice".

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    There are 351 posts referring to "grab". I recall a number challenging for a citation of any successful non-officer related grab. I don't recall any such citations of a successful non-officer related grab.

    Believe nothing you read or hear without verifying it yourself unless it fits your pre-existing worldview.
    So, because you can't find one, it hasn't happened? And cannot happen in the future?

    Interesting logic, Huffy. Weak logic.

    Retention holsters are mandated for over 800,000 LEOs. Why do you think that is?

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    Cite the mandate for 800,000 cops. You and CLEO play fast and loose.

    Safety is a tyrant's tool because no one can be against safety except a free man.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Cite the mandate for 800,000 cops. You and CLEO play fast and loose.
    Weak, again, Huffy. Weak.

    I'll let the LEOs here answer that one. Anybody working LEOs in a department where retention holsters are not required???

    LOL.

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    Mine's technically level 0 (DeSantis Yaqui Slide) but you do have to draw very straight (easy with a bit of practice, and it's a natural angle for the carrier), if you have much angle at all (from behind grad or side grab) you'll struggle with it long enough for me to deal with it.

    Not to mention it's a full-frame weapon, so my elbow hits it most of the time (I learned to hold my arms a little differently to make walking easier).

    I wouldn't be against a retention holster, but if you are aware of your surroundings it's less of an issue.

    For a meetup I think you'll be just fine. If you're worried about it for everyday carry, by all means get yourself something that you're comfortable with.

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    squarepeg wrote:
    There is an OC meet-up happening this weekend and I am interested in going. I am thinking about OCing, but am leaning toward just CCing as because my holster in an IWB with level 0 protection. I think I know the level system. It has a tension screw, but even if I tighten that down all the way, the gun can still be pulled out easily. If the holster is held upside down, the gun will slowly slide out. In my daily movement, the gun doesn't move at all.

    Does anyone OC with an open top holster, and if so, how easy/hard is it to get the gun out. Am I over thinking this, or should it really be a concern like I have?

    Just for information, the gun is a S&W 3914.
    While I think it is a good idea to CC and OC with a retention holster, a majority of folks seem to be surviving without using them. You do have other options to prevent your weapon from being used against you. As posted earlier, practice situational awareness. There is the option of empty chamber carry which has the drawback of not being readily available for one handed use but works for the Israelis. If your 3914 has a safety, you can carry on safe. Seems to take the average person more than 10 seconds to figure out and deactivate and safety and you can use that time to, get away, produce another weapon, or take back the gun.

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    HankT wrote:
    Doug Huffman wrote:
    There are 351 posts referring to "grab". I recall a number challenging for a citation of any successful non-officer related grab. I don't recall any such citations of a successful non-officer related grab.

    Believe nothing you read or hear without verifying it yourself unless it fits your pre-existing worldview.
    So, because you can't find one, it hasn't happened? And cannot happen in the future?

    Interesting logic, Huffy. Weak logic.

    Retention holsters are mandated for over 800,000 LEOs. Why do you think that is?
    They are required by LEO because they deal with criminals on an every day business, police go looking for the trouble to try and solve it.

    You as a citizen do not.

    That is why there is NO confirmed case of an open carriers gun being taken away from them.

    There are confirmed cases for LE. They deal with different issues than you or I.

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    David.Car wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    Doug Huffman wrote:
    There are 351 posts referring to "grab". I recall a number challenging for a citation of any successful non-officer related grab. I don't recall any such citations of a successful non-officer related grab.

    Believe nothing you read or hear without verifying it yourself unless it fits your pre-existing worldview.
    So, because you can't find one, it hasn't happened? And cannot happen in the future?

    Interesting logic, Huffy. Weak logic.

    Retention holsters are mandated for over 800,000 LEOs. Why do you think that is?
    They are required by LEO because they deal with criminals on an every day business, police go looking for the trouble to try and solve it.

    You as a citizen do not.

    That is why there is NO confirmed case of an open carriers gun being taken away from them.

    There are confirmed cases for LE. They deal with different issues than you or I.
    That last line is wrong HankT doesn't OC, so it should read "They deal with different issues than I do."

  19. #19
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Situational awareness is the key to retention. When I started to OC I felt I had to have a Serpa. However I have stopped using it after it killed the finish on my 1911 but I still use it for camping.
    I moved to a leather Glaco with a thumb break but it was not comfortable. I now have and use a open top Glaco that is form fitting and is the most comfortable holster I have ever worn. I did a 5 hour road trip with this thing on my hip and at one point during my trip had a oh %$#@ moment until I reached down to feel the butt of the pistol. IMHO find what is comfortable and carry.

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