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Thread: going on base

  1. #1
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    How should a firearm be stored when going on a military installation?? Specifically Ft. Belvoir.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    back at the house
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Privately Owned firearms are not allowed on base, unless you are checking it into base security firearms storage room or base armory upon being stationed at the base.

    IANAL/IANAJAG...I can neither confirm nor deny... that if one was to conceal carry as you pass through the gate and you are stopped... all they do is a vehicle search...they do not search the person... unless you have something else illegal in your vehicle and then theycan arrest you there by doing a search of you. Once through the gate though, you can remove and store inside the vehicle while remaining hidden from view. Take the same procedure while exiting for some bases search vehicles departing bases as well.

    http://www.dcmilitary.com/special_se...39_31964.shtml

    Weapons Registration
    Military members and their families who are assigned, attached or residing at Fort Belvoir billeting or quarters must register all privately owned firearms with the Provost Marshal Office, Bldg. 1181, within 72 hours of being brought on to the installation. Registration is not required for firearms that are permanently stored off post. Firearms are not allowed to be stored in Fort Belvoir billeting. You will need to see your unit for storage of weapons.

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    I know quantico you can get a letter from the provost to bring a firearm on base (you can also get permission if you are going to the range on base) but not conceal one.

    But it is generally VERBOTEN!

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    beradcee wrote:
    How should a firearm be stored when going on a military installation?? Specifically Ft. Belvoir.
    Seems to me you'll be kosher if it's unloaded and case in the trunk.



    7. Carrying, Use, and Storage of Firearms.

    a. Personnel and their family members will not carry any privately owned firearms except when engaged in, or enroute to or from, authorized on-post practice areas or for off-post activities which are not in violation of Federal law or the law of the state in which the firearm is being used or transported. Air rifles, air pistols, BB guns, and gas pellet guns meet the same requirements as stated above. All firearms, while being carried or transported, will be unloaded, with magazine removed, breech open, cased, and broken down, where possible.

    See page 6 of
    http://www.doim.belvoir.army.mil/pubs/Belvoir/Reg/190-2.pdf

    Personally-owned firearms on military installations are not uncommon, so there's typically some provision for how it's done. I used to shoot on an Air Force Baseseveral times a week, the local Army post has hunting, and I've known of a couple of installations with shotgun ranges.

    When something's unclear, you can always contact the post for clarification.




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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    My guess would be that if you have it (and they find it).. and you are not going to the range.. you will be detained and possibly arrested.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    ed wrote:
    My guess would be that if you have it (and they find it).. and you are not going to the range.. you will be detained and possibly arrested.
    Arrested for what?



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    DocDaddy wrote:
    IANAL/IANAJAG...I can neither confirm nor deny... that if one was to conceal carry as you pass through the gate and you are stopped... all they do is a vehicle search...they do not search the person... unless you have something else illegal in your vehicle and then theycan arrest you there by doing a search of you. Once through the gate though, you can remove and store inside the vehicle while remaining hidden from view. Take the same procedure while exiting for some bases search vehicles departing bases as well.
    Do "they" have the authority to do a personsearch, even if they find nothing questionable in the vehicle?

    What would be the penalty for carrying a gun on one's person, if "they" somehow happened to discover it upon entering or exiting the base?

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Applies to all persons residing upon, employed by,serving on or visiting Fort Belvoir, Virginia. Violation of any provision of this regulation provides a basis for disciplinary action under the Uniform Code of Military Justice against those persons to whom it applies. Violation of any provision of this regulation by other persons may provide a basis for administrative and criminal actions, including debarment from Fort Belvoir, termination of employment, revocation of privileges, termination of quarters, referral to State of Virginia juvenile authorities, referral to the United States Attorney, or other appropriate action.

    On request of military police, civilian police, orother duly authorized law enforcement officials, promptly present the appropriate documents reflecting authorization for the acquisition, registration, or retention of any privately owned firearms in their possession.

    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    ed wrote:


    Applies to all persons residing upon, employed by,serving on or visiting Fort Belvoir, Virginia. Violation of any provision of this regulation provides a basis for disciplinary action under the Uniform Code of Military Justice against those persons to whom it applies. Violation of any provision of this regulation by other persons may provide a basis for administrative and criminal actions, including debarment from Fort Belvoir, termination of employment, revocation of privileges, termination of quarters, referral to State of Virginia juvenile authorities, referral to the United States Attorney, or other appropriate action.
    Yes, the regulation applies to everyone on post. Various sections are applicable to one's particular circumstance.


    ed wrote:


    On request of military police, civilian police, orother duly authorized law enforcement officials, promptly present the appropriate documents reflecting authorization for the acquisition, registration, or retention of any privately owned firearms in their possession.

    This section is under section 6.b, and therefore applies to personnel who reside in family quarters, BOQ, or barracks, not someone who lives off-post.


    IANAL, but it looks to me like someone visiting post would be okay with an unloaded (disassembled?) weapon locked in the trunk. If someone points out why this position is incorrect, we're all better off for that knowledge, so I welcome that.





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    If I recall to correctly, when you enter a military installation, the military police/security forces/shore patrol, etc... retain the right to search you or your vehicle at any time without probable cause. Its one of the conditions of obtaining a vehicle/visitor pass to enter the installation.

    Every installation will have its own rules or variations thereof. What might be true on Ft Belvior might not be true on Quantico. Your best bet is to call the Visitor's Center/Access Control for the specific base and ask what you need to do. Those folks should have the information readily available at their fingertips.

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    [Double Post]

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    DrMark wrote:
    it looks to me like someone visiting post would be okay with an unloaded (disassembled?) weapon locked in the trunk.
    I would HOPE so.. especially in this day and age. But to be it is a very gray area (kinda like the whole post office thing).

    If I went on Post (or base) depending on the branch :-) and had an unloaded firearm locked in my truck I would have that weird feeling in my gut like I was doing somethign wrong. If I "declared" it at the gate I would be afraid of being turned away or detained, etc. etc. I guess it would not hurt me any to e-mail the commander and simply ASK as if I was going to the base and see what the reply would be.

    Ed

    Edit: ok.. I asked and will post the question and response if I get one.

    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Well i swill shed some light one this :P i am an mp us army, i work at Ft. Eustis, and just to let you know if you try and come onto post with a fire arm and your not a LEO you will turned away we have no rite to detain you.

    You will just be told that you may not enter post and that you will be advised to take your gun home and then come back.. as for living on post with a fire arm unless you get it registered with the PMO then you may not have it and you can and will get in a lot of trouble, if you register it you will be fine.


    I have a story about this situation by the way, we had a guy come up the inspection tent we found a gun in his glove box, we told him he had to take it home, he complained about how it had taken him 45 mins to drive here and that if he drove home he wouldn't get back in time to do whatever he had to do on post.

    We told him sorry but we where not going to let him on post, so this smart guy drives out to the 7-11 outside post throws the gun n the woods and comes back to come on post, and who's waiting to check his vehicle, this guy was dumb it was obvious he didn't drive home, sad thing was he could have said he left it at a friends house, and probably would have gotten on post. We called the local LEO and asked them to come check out the guy, come to find out it was an unregistered fire arm.



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    soloban wrote:
    If I recall to correctly, when you enter a military installation, the military police/security forces/shore patrol, etc... retain the right to search you or your vehicle at any time without probable cause. Its one of the conditions of obtaining a vehicle/visitor pass to enter the installation.

    Every installation will have its own rules or variations thereof. What might be true on Ft Belvior might not be true on Quantico. Your best bet is to call the Visitor's Center/Access Control for the specific base and ask what you need to do. Those folks should have the information readily available at their fingertips.
    That is correct most post have the rite to search your vehicle, but i have been on many post that don't even have a gate or gate guard. If you are coming onto a military base and you do not have a decal your vehicle will be searched..

    Most post do 100% now a days, that means every vehicle except ones with DOD decals are stopped and searched.

    Unless we find something in your vehicle that breaks any laws we can not detain you, and most will not detain you for just having a fire arm, we have many soldiers who go hunting and plenty of them will ride threw post with shotgun or rifle in there back window lol it happens....

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    Figured it was easiest just to go ahead and leave it at home for the night. It was a WHOLE lot easier to get on base than it should have been. Especially for us being in a time of war. It was harder for me to get on base when I did have DoD stickers than it was last night without them.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Morbid wrote:
    snip........... come to find out it was an unregistered fire arm.
    This could not have occured in Virginia as described because we have no firearms registry.

    Yata hey
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Morbid wrote:
    snip........... come to find out it was an unregistered fire arm.
    This could not have occured in Virginia as described because we have no firearms registry.

    Yata hey
    Unless it was an automatic handgun
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    It's what the local LEO told us i honestly don't care as long as he didn't get in it dosen't matter to me at end of the day, just what they told me was an illegal gun it's what they said.

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    In the spring of 2003 just before the currently Iraq war broke out, I entered the Quantico, Virginia Marine base with an Armalite M15A2 Carbine and a Kahr PM9 in my trunk.. both unloaded and in cases but not locked up. In addition, I had a Spyderco clip knife (small one) clipped to my right pocket and a baby Ka Bar knife in my passenger side map pocket (forgot about this one).

    Since my car did not have a DoD sticker, I was moved to a side area and asked to step out of the car. A marine asked me if I had any other weapons in my car beside the knife he saw clipped to my pocket. I told him that there was a rifle and a handgun in my trunk. They asked me to open the trunk and they inspected my firearms. When they finished, they asked me if I was going to Quantico Arms in 'Q' town to which I replied in the affirmative. The closed my trunk wished me a good day. I asked if I still had my weapons and they said yes.

    That was it. No hassle.. just a mild inspection. I can only imagine what the other cars waiting behind me must have thought when a marine pulled my AR-15 out of my trunk.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    "An unregistered firearm"- shades of DC and NYC's Bloomturd

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    I didn't know this until a couple of years ago, but an installation commander can regulate the carry of firearms on his installation, from "No. Nothing except cased to/from the armory" to whatever's legal. Given federal regulations, I can't imagine one permitting regular carry, though. He'd have to have his entire base legal staff working on the ramifications.

    In 30 years of association in various forms with military installations, I can say Ft Belvoir, strict as it may seem to some in Virginia, is among the more open.

    In addition to FB Regulation 190-2, already quoted, there is

    FB Regulation 210-28
    5-30. Firearms Control
    Personally owned firearms and weapons stored in family housing must be registered with the Provost Marshal’s Office. Occupants will comply with Fort Belvoir Regulation 190-2, Motor Vehicle and Firearms Control, 23 Oct 98.

    That's where the "registration" comes from.


    Edited to fix missing phrase.
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    It's true that every installation commander sets his own policy for firearms. The Air Force tends to be the most restrictive. Many Army installations allow hunting, so they obviously allow firearms.

    When my oldest was going through Basic and AIT at Fort Knox, and we planned to attend his family day and graduation, I checked with the Law Enforcement Center (the LEC is the new term for the Provost Marshal's Office), and confirmed their policy that I had found online: licensed concealed carry was permitted on post, but not in any buildings. Just secure it in the trunk before going inside.

    That was 2005, so don't rely on it if you're visiting Knox in 2008.


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    To be honest, I have seen nothing that prohibits civilians from lawfully carrying on a military installation.

    Base Commanders can impact the actions of military members on base - that is clear. Regarding civilians employed as federal employees...hmmm. Civilians hired as contractors....another hmmm.

    But civilians just visiting - I can't see how they can be punished by something they are not a part of in any way. If they were stopped by the military and then turned over to local civilian police...what would they be charged with? If they were charged with something by the military and went in front of a Federal Magistrate...what would they be charged with?

    There must exist something that applies to all federal military installations when it comes to lawful firearm carry on base.

    Can anyone cite anything other than base specific info?

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