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Thread: Open Carry in California marches

  1. #1
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    Hey Guys.

    The Nordyke case will probably get us 2nd amendment incorporation here shortly, after that, we need to do what I call "public education" in this state.

    Some of you will not like my proposal for whatever reason and I can respect that.

    For those of you with a open mind and a willingness to really tweek with people's heads read on.

    In California in June, there are "Gay Pride Parades". I propose that we "swell up" the ranks of the "Pink Pistol" chapters so that they have a really "large contingent" marching down in the annual "Gay Pride" parades in San Fran.

    They areother "Gay Pride"parades in other parts of the country too.Many Gays are anti gun, so here is a opportunity to promote our position in their face in their parade.

    I am not advocating anything controversial. All we would do is march with guns at our side, ideally we all would get Black Pink Pistol shirts, kinda like a uniform.

    Just march with a chant, maybe the following. "Armed Gays don't get bashed, armed gays don't get based, Heller, Heller, Hellllllllllllllllllllllllllller."

    The Pink Pistols does not require people to be gay to join, all they require is that you support the right of gays to armed self defense.

    Open carry is a political statement. We make political statements to promote change. Large numbers of Pink Pistols(100 plus) in the Gay Pride parades across the country have a high probablity of making the news.

    If you are going to do a open carry march, these parades probably have the highest chance of getting media attention because armed gays defies stereotypes.

    Generally speaking, Pink Pistols gets fair press. That has been my experience as well as the experience of other Pink Pistol coordinators across the country.

    It also has the possiblity of spreading support for gun rights across the social and political spectrum. Regardless of who wins in November, it is something we need to do to get back our rights.

    Just something I thought I would float to you guys.

    Nicki



  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I think it's a great idea. The pink pistols are a wonderful libertarian-minded group, and marching with them could potentially cause the rest of the marchers to view us as "with them" rather than "against them." I think Lonnie Wilson is a member, and I'm pretty sure they support OC.

    I'd show up, myself.

  3. #3
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    nicki wrote:
    I am not advocating anything controversial. All we would do is march with guns at our side, ideally we all would get Black Pink Pistol shirts, kinda like a uniform.
    You may want to retract this statement, because what you are proposing is extraordinarily controversial. You are blending advocacy for gay rights with that of the second amendment in a city that could be considered the homosexual and anti-gun capitol of the world.

    The hypocrisy couldn'tbe exposed better with the anti-gun left denouncing the right of gays to keep and bear arms for self-defense- they may not even realize that the second amendment isanessential liberty to gays and lesbians. On the other end of the spectrum, you are asking gun owners- some of which are quite possibly the most homophobic people out there- to participate in a gay pride parade.

    Yeah- that's not controversial.Forget what I said.

    This would certainly draw national press.

    Now the problem with such a march, is that everyone would need to know the law, demonstrate complete compliance and be ready for provocateurs who would intend to make a bad show of marchers. This is why I have simply encouraged those who would want to demonstrate open carry in California to go about their business as if carrying a sidearm is the most natural thing to do, instead of marching on the Capitol in numbers that are rendered irrelevant by the media.

    I would like to see how this develops before I commit to participating. I would want to be sure that both the location and the participants would be 100% legal.
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    I get the reasoning, but not the venue. Some political statements are just better made by themselves with arally cryall their own. I couldn't ask my sidearm to compromise.

    Why notan organized march ofgun owners, without the social stigma and a statement allof its own?From all (I'll try and say it) diverse back grounds? Gun rights belong to everyone, separate and regardlessof life style choices. That I can condone. A united front of all gun owners is a huge statement and I'd bet would grab allot of attention.

    Whycouldn't people of all walks,show the same zeal for a common cause, without compromising personal beliefs?

    I alwayshave a hard time deciding what to wearon these occasions.O.K. I put the flak vest and helmet on. Open FIRE!




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    You have to break eggs to make an omelette.

    The intent of course is to be controversial and we would want the event video taped so that if we were attacked, it would create footage just like the old films of cops beating peaceful civil rights protestors during the 1960's.

    The Nordyke case will be a big factor in determining wheter to proceed. The Pink Pistols have marched in previous pride parades, so it can be done.

    The issue is numbers were few. I am looking at symbolism, even if we need to do empty holster.

    Gay bashing is a big issue in the Gay community, being open minded and tolerant is also a value that the "community supposedly supports".

    It is something that needs work, at this point I just floated out the idea.

    If nothing else, after a Post Nordyke decision, assuming we get incorporation, it may present a unique opportunity for mass civil disobedience in a notoriously anti gun city.

    Ohio gun rights activists used open carry to force througha shall issue ccw bill. They still have open carry though thanks to the Ohio Supreme court's RKBA ruling, although I don't think that the Ohio Supreme Court intended that open carry would become widespread in Ohio.



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    Why not just organize an open carry parade and have the media there ahead of time. Get a permit and request a police escort through proper channels first. What are they going to say, No? Then I would take it from there and organize anyway. Contactas manylegislators and officials you can contact to invite them. If they turn you down let the media no it, as well as there next political opponent.If attention for cause is what one is after, promote the cause and go get attention. A press release about the eventcould help for a cause like this. And find some good public speaker in your group to promote the cause in a public venue.

    It does not seem like a good idea to steal some other causes thunder andsurf their wave in the sun. Just my opinion.

    Isure like the way you think, though.

  7. #7
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    lukeshort wrote:
    Why not just organize an open carry parade and have the media there ahead of time. Get a permit and request a police escort through proper channels first. What are they going to say, No? Then I would take it from there and organize anyway. Contactas manylegislators and officials you can contact to invite them. If they turn you down let the media no it, as well as there next political opponent.If attention for cause is what one is after, promote the cause and go get attention. A press release about the eventcould help for a cause like this. And find some good public speaker in your group to promote the cause in a public venue.

    It does not seem like a good idea to steal some other causes thunder andsurf their wave in the sun. Just my opinion.

    Isure like the way you think, though.

    What legislators? Diane Feinstein? Barbara Boxer?

    What officials? Gavin Newsome? Willie Brown?

    This unfortunately, isthe California that I have inherited.

    And organizing for the media- What do you propose to do when 15 or 20 people show up for this march and most of them are not participants? What if some of the 20 participants show are not ready for prime time- goof up by being a mouthy camoflage wearing militant?

    There is some merit in being a sideshow in a larger event... we arent standing alone.

    I agree there should be a press release explaining why we are doing what we are doing, however I disagree that we would be stealing someone's surf.

    I am reminded of the poem by Pastor Martin Niemoller.


    "In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;

    And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;

    And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;

    And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."


    I do not agree with how some people live their lives and some do not agree on how I live mine- however I recognize that we all deserve these essential rights- life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If one will not fight for his neighbors right to live and be free then they should not expect their neighbor to fight on their behalf. It is my hope in participating in any event that we can build strong alliances to bend our government to our collective will and enjoy our liberty as the fruit of this effort.

    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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  8. #8
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    The SF pride parade is huge. Sure we could get a parade permit, but we wouldn't get the opportunity to promote carry rights in front of a few hundred thousand people.

    They are there for the events anyway, it is a opportunity to show that gun rights is not just a right wing issue, it is an issue that protects all rights.

    Not all liberals are progressives and regardless of who wins in November, we need to cement that gun rights are critical to all rights.

    The reality by the way is that while San Fran is anti gun, prop H, the handgun ban only got 58 percent of the vote. This is a decrease in support for handgun bans from the last time there was a vote in 1982 where 65 percent voted in favor of prop 15.

    This is inspite of San Fran becoming more liberal since 1982. The biggest support for prop H came from the Gay Community with 80 percent voting for prop H.

    The other group that voted for prop H were minorities in the tenderloin district, otherwise prop H failed in every other district in San Fran.

    As more gays become pro gun, we pick up support from the political center. That is why something like this is a once a year opportunity where we can gain support from the political left and middle.

    Nicki

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    ConditionThree wrote:
    lukeshort wrote:
    Why not just organize an open carry parade and have the media there ahead of time. Get a permit and request a police escort through proper channels first. What are they going to say, No? Then I would take it from there and organize anyway. Contactas manylegislators and officials you can contact to invite them. If they turn you down let the media no it, as well as there next political opponent.If attention for cause is what one is after, promote the cause and go get attention. A press release about the eventcould help for a cause like this. And find some good public speaker in your group to promote the cause in a public venue.

    It does not seem like a good idea to steal some other causes thunder andsurf their wave in the sun. Just my opinion.

    Isure like the way you think, though.

    What legislators? Diane Feinstein? Barbara Boxer?

    What officials? Gavin Newsome? Willie Brown?
    +1

    Also, what media? I spoke to reporters for two major regional news outlets about my civil rights violations and the following "We're not intimidated by your Gestapo tactics" luncheon. Neither reporter returned my messages. There's simply no interest, it seems.

    Nicki, I think yours is a great idea. Maybe we could show them support for their cause, and hope they will help us organize a "Gun pride parade" where we'll focus the message on the right to bear arms.

    When's the next parade? We're about due for another state-wide meetup, and SF is a ripe venue. Parade and lunch anybody?
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    lukeshort wrote:
    Why not*an organized march of*gun owners, without the social stigma and a statement all*of its own?*
    What "social stigma"? Honestly, I hate to point out how biased this makes you appear. I'm not even sure I see your point.

    Personally, I think the idea would make for a great publicity stunt. And it might challenge people's preconceptions, which is itself always a good thing.

    If the Pink Pistols got a little more attention, maybe some "liberals" would reconsider their anti-gun views. Wwe have the logical and factual high ground in this debate, so we're shooting ourselves in the foot by not trying to think of ways to convince "liberals" about the RKBA, rather than just preaching to the choir all the time. I think this kind of march would be a great way to point out how self-contradictory the psuedo-liberal (Democrap) platform actually is. And who knows? It might get some liberals thinking.

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    I think the idea is sound, but only if the motive is right. If you care NOTHING about gay rights then this is a misguided suggestion and I hope you much failure.

    Marching to support gay rights, and gun rights I think is a great idea. I am sure that many people see us gun lovers as a bunch of redneck gay bashing racists...to march and show our solidarity in not just gun rights, but in gay rights would be attention grabbing.

  12. #12
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    Why would someone not want gays to be armed? I don't get it...

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    I whoeheartedly support this idea.

    I'm not gay, but I support gay rights. I (obviously) support gun/carry rights, and I registered here just to let you guys know that I am 100% behind you.

    If there is a march set, I'll be there, pinks or not.

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    marshaul wrote:
    Why would someone not want gays to be armed? I don't get it...
    Because they believe - usually as a result of religious indoctrination - that gays are evil.
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    kertong wrote:
    I whoeheartedly support this idea.

    I'm not gay, but I support gay rights.* I (obviously) support gun/carry rights, and I registered here just to let you guys know that I am 100% behind you.

    If there is a march set, I'll be there, pinks or not.
    This is encouraging. It goes to show that ideas like this one have the potential to attract an even broader variety of individuals than OC-only activism currently does.

    By the way, welcome to the forum! I suggest you stick around for a while. We may have our share of idiots (then again every online community has that), but on the whole there is a lot of good information and ideas being disseminated here.

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    nicki wrote:
    Generally speaking, Pink Pistols gets fair press. That has been my experience as well as the experience of other Pink Pistol coordinators across the country.
    This implies you are some sort of regional coordinator. Is this correct? If so, the first step in organizing this is already accomplished.

    nicki wrote:
    The Nordyke case will be a big factor in determining wheter to proceed. The Pink Pistols have marched in previous pride parades, so it can be done.
    If it's been done before, then now is surely a good time to do it again with greater numbers and a bolder statement.

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    I'm just going to be tolerant of all these diverse opinions. Just trying to be helpful.

    I just want you all to know I have the most firm belief all people deserve the basic rights guaranteed to us by the Constitution. No more, no less. And we were all created equal. When rights are being dissolved by those opposed to a free thinking and self reliant people, it affects us all.

    If you all can pull off a stunt to encourage and educate about gun rights, I wish you the best. Now that I have read some of your comments on this subject, it sounds like you all may have a point. Did not mean to ruffle any sequinfeathers.

    Wish you all the best and stay safe.





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    marshaul wrote:
    I think it's a great idea. The pink pistols are a wonderful libertarian-minded group, and marching with them could potentially cause the rest of the marchers to view us as "with them" rather than "against them." I think Lonnie Wilson is a member, and I'm pretty sure they support OC.

    I'd show up, myself.
    Yes to both.

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    Sounds like a good idea although I don't agree with some ofthe seemingly "Pushier" stuff coming out of the Gay Rights movement. I'm getting a bit nervous that religions/churches will have their rights infringed with some of the stuff being kicked around. I haven't looked into it too deep but stuff like churches possibly losing the right to refuse to marry a gay couple for religious reasonsseems like it's on it's way.

    I personally believe that all people should be treated equal and have equal rights but when it comes to forcing churches to do something against their religion or force feeding (actually teaching it's ok and that the childs familyreligion is wrong)homosexuality on young children in school regardless of their family's religious beliefs is a bit scary. Due to my religious beliefs I don't believe in gay marriage in the "religious" sense, but I guess I'm not opposed to them having at the least a similar "legal "status wether married by judge or accepting church.

    I'm not a homophobe but where I come from there are a lot of super ignorant people and if I'm caught anywhere near a gay pride parade I might as well just be gay because nobody will believe otherwise LOL.Nothing worse and more annoyingthen somebody calling you something your not.

    I'll do it though, like I said everybody should be treated equal and should not be attacked for there lifestyle choice. I'll march but I'm not wearing any Pink anything that's just making my case even worse when I'm seen on the news lol. I'll volunteer to wear the onlyCA UOC specific shirt for the event though.

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    MrSigmaDot40 wrote:
    Sounds like a good idea although I don't agree with some of*the seemingly "Pushier" stuff coming out of the Gay Rights movement. I'm getting a bit nervous that religions/churches will have their rights infringed with some of the stuff being kicked around. I haven't looked into it too deep but stuff like churches possibly losing the right to refuse to marry a gay couple for religious reasons*seems like it's on it's way.
    It's always wise to remain critical of pushy special interest groups of any sort. However, in this case I think it's only fair to point out that the rumor that churches could be required to marry gays is essentially a propaganda lie.

    This is way off topic, but read the following article, and especially read the comments: after reading the BS coming from those trying to defend Prop 8 for a few minutes you should get a pretty good idea what a dishonest bunch they are:
    http://volokh.com/posts/1223612249.shtml

  21. #21
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Sounds like a good idea although I don't agree with some ofthe seemingly "Pushier" stuff coming out of the Gay Rights movement. I'm getting a bit nervous that religions/churches will have their rights infringed with some of the stuff being kicked around. I haven't looked into it too deep but stuff like churches possibly losing the right to refuse to marry a gay couple for religious reasonsseems like it's on it's way.


    There's been no case in the United States where a church has lost their tax exemption or been threatened with any form of prosecution of fine for refusal to marry a same gendered couple. There certainly have been cases where a person running a public accomodation were fined, and they used their religious belief as a defense. That was the case in New Mexico that was talking about the photographer and the commitment ceremony. New Mexico has no legal same gender marriage.

    You also can't use the case in Massachusetts either. An private adoption agency ran by the Catholic Church in Massachusetts was regulated and licensed by the Commonwealth. The Church agency engaged in discriminatory behavior against same gendered couples, they violated the terms of their adoption licensing, and they were sued. They got out of the adoption business. Again, not the same situation as refusing to marry. There are plenty of churches that WILL married same gendered couples, from the Metropolitan Community Churches (Christian), to other accepting religious organizations, as well as government justices of the peace (the judges who marry you in the courthouse). Why would the mainstream gay population ever call for forcing religious churches that hate their existence to marry them? It seems stupid considering that there's plenty of other options, ranging from the secular (marrying in the courthouse) to the very accepting (MCC).

    Instead of watching the commercials and believing them blindly, check the facts. The kind of accusations coming out of the Pro-Prop 8 folks down in California are no different than the anti-gunners deliberately misrepresenting the facts about gun owners and their activities.

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    Don't have a problem with a gun rights parade.

    I will not however, participate in a Gay Rights parade. I will not give tacit approval for Gay Rights just because a small percentage support my Gun Rights.

    Not a Gay Basher, just not down with the public display of anything I wouldn't want a 10 year old to see, and I wouldn't want any 10 year old to see the sexually explicit exploits that occur inGay Rights parades.



    I'm voting YES on Prop 8.

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  23. #23
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    Decoligny wrote:
    I'm voting YES on Prop 8.
    Why waste your time?

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    marshaul wrote:
    Decoligny wrote:
    I'm voting YES on Prop 8.
    Why waste your time?
    Despite the fact that I disagree with his opinion and his vote for Prop 8, voting is NEVER a waste of time.

    -Lonnie

  25. #25
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Decoligny wrote:
    Don't have a problem with a gun rights parade.

    I will not however, participate in a Gay Rights parade. I will not give tacit approval for Gay Rights just because a small percentage support my Gun Rights.

    Then don't. Let me and Nicki march instead. No one is forcing you to march anywhere near the "Gay rights" crowd.

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