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Thread: Obama and Concealed carry.

  1. #1
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    Just in case no one thought of this, please consider the following:

    For those of you who live in Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania and any other state where both concealed and open carry is legal who want to make a difference, please do the following, time is critical, action is needed.

    In states where a CCW permit is needed to carry open or concealed, those who have ccw permits should wear the permits around their necks like a chain.

    The race is close,

    1. Beg all CCW holders to carry openly until Nov 5.

    2. It would be great if there were marches like what happened in Ohio where Open carry marches were done to promote CCW reform.

    Thiswas done before, it can be done again. This wouldexpose Obama on gun control, his campaign is trying to say him and McCain are the same on guns.

    3. What we want to do is make the political statement that since Obama wants to ban concealed carry, open carry is our only option.

    If enough people get involved, Obama has to respond. Regardless of how he answers, he is screwed.

    4. Since you are carrying to make a political statement, you are exercising both your first amendment and second amendment rights. This should discourage harassment from the police.

    Surprisingly the ACLU has come forward on the first amendment issue elsewhere, we may continue to get unexpected help.

    We will soon have incorporation on the federal level anyway. Unless someone has something better to offer, I would say something along the following to a cop.

    Barrack Obama has stated he will ban concealed carry. I am exercsing my first amendment right under free speech in making a political statement by open carrying which is not against the law.

    I would state that if my actions offend members of the public, perhaps they should consider that more people will be open carrying if Obama is elected and pushes federal laws to ban concealed carry.

    Since the SCOTUS of the US said the government can regulate concealed carry, open carry is the only way I can exercise my right to bear arms.

    If I had a friendly cop, I'd shoot the breeze, if I had a ***hole, I would tell him I need to be on my way, but if he would like a civil rights lawsuit, bring it on.

    Ideally local government officials should be contacted, especially our friends. They may even come forward and help.

    A public news conference by a friendly mayor telling the public not to be alarmed, that many people will be openly carrying arms as a political statement against Obama's call to ban concealed carry should have stinging effects.

    Local state gun associations can turn on the heat, they have e mail lists, if any of you have contacts, now is the time to take action.

    There is alot of anger against Obama, let's channel the anger into something positive.

    There are two things we know we definitely don't want from Chicago, there gun laws and Barrack Obama.



    Nicki

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    nicki wrote:
    Just in case no one thought of this, please consider the following:

    For those of you who live in Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania and any other state where both concealed and open carry is legal who want to make a difference, please do the following, time is critical, action is needed.

    In states where a CCW permit is needed to carry open or concealed, those who have ccw permits should wear the permits around their necks like a chain.

    The race is close,

    1. Beg all CCW holders to carry openly until Nov 5.

    2. It would be great if there were marches like what happened in Ohio where Open carry marches were done to promote CCW reform.

    Thiswas done before, it can be done again. This wouldexpose Obama on gun control, his campaign is trying to say him and McCain are the same on guns.

    3. What we want to do is make the political statement that since Obama wants to ban concealed carry, open carry is our only option.

    If enough people get involved, Obama has to respond. Regardless of how he answers, he is screwed.

    4. Since you are carrying to make a political statement, you are exercising both your first amendment and second amendment rights. This should discourage harassment from the police.

    Surprisingly the ACLU has come forward on the first amendment issue elsewhere, we may continue to get unexpected help.

    We will soon have incorporation on the federal level anyway. Unless someone has something better to offer, I would say something along the following to a cop.

    Barrack Obama has stated he will ban concealed carry. I am exercsing my first amendment right under free speech in making a political statement by open carrying which is not against the law.

    I would state that if my actions offend members of the public, perhaps they should consider that more people will be open carrying if Obama is elected and pushes federal laws to ban concealed carry.

    Since the SCOTUS of the US said the government can regulate concealed carry, open carry is the only way I can exercise my right to bear arms.

    If I had a friendly cop, I'd shoot the breeze, if I had a ***hole, I would tell him I need to be on my way, but if he would like a civil rights lawsuit, bring it on.

    Ideally local government officials should be contacted, especially our friends. They may even come forward and help.

    A public news conference by a friendly mayor telling the public not to be alarmed, that many people will be openly carrying arms as a political statement against Obama's call to ban concealed carry should have stinging effects.

    Local state gun associations can turn on the heat, they have e mail lists, if any of you have contacts, now is the time to take action.

    There is alot of anger against Obama, let's channel the anger into something positive.

    There are two things we know we definitely don't want from Chicago, there gun laws and Barrack Obama.



    Nicki
    Unfortuantely, I am from The People's Republik of Chikago. When the Messiah was running for the U.S. Senate, he said that federal legislation was needed to outlaw the carrying of concealed weapons because the states that allowed it were 'endagering the lives of Illinois citizens'. I know in PA he said he is not for concealed weapons, but when has he ever said that as president, he would push to ban concealed carry? I cant stand the ******, I'm not trying to defend him, but I cant seem to find a quote from him saying that.

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    What people (especially politicians) say when they want something from you (in this case, your vote), and what people then do once they get what they want from you...

    These are rarely the same.

    Obama can say that he is/isn't against conceal carry, etc., all day.

    The problem is his actions. Every single time a bill has come up for vote regarding firearms, Mr. Obama has voted against ownership, possession, and carry.


    The best thing we can hope for, in the likely event he is elected, is that gun control stays on the "back-burner" in the public spectrum, and courts continue to rule in favor of ownership and carry rights.

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    GaGunOwner wrote:
    Even President Obama will not have the power to "ban concealed carry." Congress would have to pass such legislation and the Republicans would be back in power in two years if this were even attempted.

    It is the law in 48 states. Over time CCW has become more popular and more accepted. Almost all of the states are shall issue now. For the most part states are allowing license holders to carry in even more locations. There just isn't any political will at this point in history to massively "ban concealed carry." The votes just aren't there.

    However, rest assured that Obama is totally against CCW and would ban it if he could "get the votes." But he can't get the votes. A lot of liberal congressmen like their jobs too much.

    With Obama I'd be more worried about a new AWB, mag capacity ban, gun/ammo/parts importation ban, "cracking down" on FFLs including C&R holders (this means allowing less of them and requiring that they pay more), possibly closing the "gunshow loophole", preventing national park carry, and proposals of that nature. His justice department would probably be all for the collective rights theory of the 2nd amendment. He WILLnominate anti-gun judges that will do everything they can to overturn Heller. We only won 5-4.
    Amen, brother!!!!!

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    Might I add that Obama is a ****** bag in the purest sense of the word?

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    Why resort to name calling?

    There are plenty of good, solid reasons to dislike him, not the least of which are his policies.

    His displays of judgment are another, as are his "previous" associations with frauds, terrorists, and hate mongers.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    AbNo wrote:
    Why resort to name calling?

    There are plenty of good, solid reasons to dislike him, not the least of which are his policies.

    His displays of judgment are another, as are his "previous" associations with frauds, terrorists, and hate mongers.
    You're right, AbNo. I shouldn't resort to name calling, especially since I cant give him a worse name than Barack Hussein Obama.

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    I_Hate_Illinois wrote:
    AbNo wrote:
    Why resort to name calling?

    There are plenty of good, solid reasons to dislike him, not the least of which are his policies.

    His displays of judgment are another, as are his "previous" associations with frauds, terrorists, and hate mongers.
    You're right, AbNo. I shouldn't resort to name calling, especially since I cant give him a worse name than Barack Hussein Obama.
    Obama said last night that his middle name is actually Steve.

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    "B. S. Obama" ?

    :shock:

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    AbNo wrote:
    Why resort to name calling?

    There are plenty of good, solid reasons to dislike him, not the least of which are his policies.

    His displays of judgment are another, as are his "previous" associations with frauds, terrorists, and hate mongers.
    Exactly. If you only dislike him by reason of his name or race, you're obviously not looking very hard :P

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    Phoenixphire wrote:
    What people (especially politicians) say when they want something from you (in this case, your vote), and what people then do once they get what they want from you...

    These are rarely the same.

    Obama can say that he is/isn't against conceal carry, etc., all day.

    The problem is his actions. Every single time a bill has come up for vote regarding firearms, Mr. Obama has voted against ownership, possession, and carry.


    The best thing we can hope for, in the likely event he is elected, is that gun control stays on the "back-burner" in the public spectrum, and courts continue to rule in favor of ownership and carry rights.
    Fat chance.

    Picture this scenario. Congress (Democrats, remember) sends a bill to Obama severely restricting 2nd Amendment rights.

    As long as they're in session, he doesn't NEED to sign it. 10 days later it's law.

    And he can wrap himself further in his self-righteousness, smirk his smirk, and say he didn't sign restrictive legislation.


    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Tess wrote:
    Phoenixphire wrote:
    What people (especially politicians) say when they want something from you (in this case, your vote), and what people then do once they get what they want from you...

    These are rarely the same.

    Obama can say that he is/isn't against conceal carry, etc., all day.

    The problem is his actions. Every single time a bill has come up for vote regarding firearms, Mr. Obama has voted against ownership, possession, and carry.


    The best thing we can hope for, in the likely event he is elected, is that gun control stays on the "back-burner" in the public spectrum, and courts continue to rule in favor of ownership and carry rights.
    Fat chance.

    Picture this scenario. Congress (Democrats, remember) sends a bill to Obama severely restricting 2nd Amendment rights.

    As long as they're in session, he doesn't NEED to sign it. 10 days later it's law.

    And he can wrap himself further in his self-righteousness, smirk his smirk, and say he didn't sign restrictive legislation.

    Nice theory. The only problem with it is that is ignores the fact that many democratic congressman are pro-gun. Some of them rabidly so. The democrats may have the votes needed to raise taxes and spend to their heart's content, but they most certainly do not have the votes to pass gun control.

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    Slayer of Paper wrote:
    Tess wrote:
    Phoenixphire wrote:
    What people (especially politicians) say when they want something from you (in this case, your vote), and what people then do once they get what they want from you...

    These are rarely the same.

    Obama can say that he is/isn't against conceal carry, etc., all day.

    The problem is his actions. Every single time a bill has come up for vote regarding firearms, Mr. Obama has voted against ownership, possession, and carry.


    The best thing we can hope for, in the likely event he is elected, is that gun control stays on the "back-burner" in the public spectrum, and courts continue to rule in favor of ownership and carry rights.
    Fat chance.

    Picture this scenario. Congress (Democrats, remember) sends a bill to Obama severely restricting 2nd Amendment rights.

    As long as they're in session, he doesn't NEED to sign it. 10 days later it's law.

    And he can wrap himself further in his self-righteousness, smirk his smirk, and say he didn't sign restrictive legislation.

    Nice theory. The only problem with it is that is ignores the fact that many democratic congressman are pro-gun. Some of them rabidly so. The democrats may have the votes needed to raise taxes and spend to their heart's content, but they most certainly do not have the votes to pass gun control.
    Exactly.

    And we can thank the NRA, GOA, SAF, VCDL, BFA, OCDO, etc. for that.

    Mostly, the NRA, of course.

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    Pointman wrote:
    Slayer of Paper wrote:
    The only problem with it is that is ignores the fact that many democratic congressman are pro-gun.
    The only problem with that is it ignores the fact that most democrats do things lock-step, or the party will ensure they're not re-elected.
    Pro - gun Democrats can and do get reelected. Some are the most powerful in party leadership.

    MOST democrats support gun control, but MANY are pro gun, and they vote that way.

    The ranks of pro-gun democrats are growing this election.

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    Yesterday I heard VA senator Jim Webb shilling for Barack, saying he (Webb) had a rifle and started hunting at age 8 and the same goes for his son, so "Virginians don't need to fear Barack. He's not going to take your guns away". Gee thanks alot. I'd actually like to see him try it.

    Democrats here hold Webb up as a staunch defender of the 2nd amendment, but Webb is stooping to the lowest and oldest Dem trick in the book: mollifying the voters by pandering to hunters, as if the 2nd amendment has anything to do with such pasttimes. Nice try. Hell, there were hunters with their own rifles in old soviet Russia! What we never hear from the Dems is one of their leaders saying "I fully support the 2nd amendment, including the right to own and buy guns, commercially or privately, as well as to carry them openly or concealed. I support the ownership of all guns commonly in circulation including semi-auto pistols, centerfire rifles and shotguns. I will also refuse to vote for any back door assaults on the 2nd amendment such as confiscatory taxes on firearms and ammo, abusive, politically motivated lawsuits against gun manufacturers, or outrageous fees for firearm related activities. I recognize that the 2nd amendment speaks to the right of individual citizens to arm for their self defense, defense of the state, or overthrow of a tyrannical government".

    I wonder why Webb and the other "pro-gun" Dems can't bring themselves to spell out their so-called support in honest terms. Hmmmmm.

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    Dutch Uncle wrote
    Snip
    I fully support the 2nd amendment, including the right to own and buy guns, commercially or privately, as well as to carry them openly or concealed. I support the ownership of all guns commonly in circulation including semi-auto pistols, centerfire rifles and shotguns. I will also refuse to vote for any back door assaults on the 2nd amendment such as confiscatory taxes on firearms and ammo, abusive, politically motivated lawsuits against gun manufacturers, or outrageous fees for firearm related activities. I recognize that the 2nd amendment speaks to the right of individual citizens to arm for their self defense, defense of the state, or overthrow of a tyrannical government".
    Dutch:

    You have composed what appears to be an excellent pledge that all our elected officials should take.

    I propose we (each and every one of us) e-mail this to our elected officials and demand that they sign on to uphold it.

    What say you all?

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    Dutch Uncle wrote:
    Yesterday I heard VA senator Jim Webb shilling for Barack, saying he (Webb) had a rifle and started hunting at age 8 and the same goes for his son, so "Virginians don't need to fear Barack. He's not going to take your guns away". Gee thanks alot. I'd actually like to see him try it.

    Democrats here hold Webb up as a staunch defender of the 2nd amendment, but Webb is stooping to the lowest and oldest Dem trick in the book: mollifying the voters by pandering to hunters, as if the 2nd amendment has anything to do with such pasttimes. Nice try. Hell, there were hunters with their own rifles in old soviet Russia! What we never hear from the Dems is one of their leaders saying "I fully support the 2nd amendment, including the right to own and buy guns, commercially or privately, as well as to carry them openly or concealed. I support the ownership of all guns commonly in circulation including semi-auto pistols, centerfire rifles and shotguns. I will also refuse to vote for any back door assaults on the 2nd amendment such as confiscatory taxes on firearms and ammo, abusive, politically motivated lawsuits against gun manufacturers, or outrageous fees for firearm related activities. I recognize that the 2nd amendment speaks to the right of individual citizens to arm for their self defense, defense of the state, or overthrow of a tyrannical government".

    I wonder why Webb and the other "pro-gun" Dems can't bring themselves to spell out their so-called support in honest terms. Hmmmmm.
    This is what Sen. Webb had to say a few years ago:


    from the desk of James Webb


    October 30, 2006

    Dear Virginia Sportsmen and Gun Owners,

    As a long-time member of the National Rifle Association, you can imagine my
    surprise when I received a mailing in the form of an Orange Card saying “VOTE
    FREEDOM FIRST ON NOVEMBER 7 – VOTE GEORGE ALLEN FOR THE U.S.
    SENATE!”

    I am writing this letter to make certain that no Virginia sportsmen or gun owner
    has any question concerning my stand on Second Amendment and sportsmen
    rights.

    To be clear, I value and will defend your right of self-defense. As a Marine
    combat veteran who shot “double expert” and once taught the .45 pistol to
    Officer Candidates, and as a former Secretary of the Navy under Ronald Reagan,
    I know first hand the importance of armed self-defense by law-abiding citizens
    as a deterrent to criminals, and in the long term, to would-be tyrants.

    I have possessed a concealed-carry permit for many years, and shoot regularly.
    I have made no secret during this campaign of the fact that I carry. I support a
    national concealed carry permit. I also will sponsor a bill in the United States
    Senate that repeals the National Park Gun Ban that disarms only law-abiding
    citizens in Interior Department/National Park Service across Virginia. And I
    intend to get it to the floor for a vote.


    Please compare this background with that of my opponent. Individual Second
    Amendment Rights are ingrained into my Scots-Irish culture, and I stand where I
    stand.

    On the sporting side, I support opening up more Federal land for sportsmen.
    Federal land is, after all, the property of all Americans. In addition, I support air
    and water quality measures that improve wildlife habitat. I will be monitoring
    the “Farm Bill” and its wildlife habitat programs to make sure that Virginia and
    our abundance of National Forest lands gets its fair share of funding for our
    wildlife programs.

    (over)

    P.O. Box 17427, Arlington, Virginia 22216 • (703) 778-4080 • www.webbforsenate.com

    You can also imagine my frustration when I received my NRA magazine and
    saw there was a question mark beside my grade. Only after complaining to the
    NRA did they finally post my grade on their website. I got an “A” which was
    purposefully omitted from the NRA orange card that, to my shock, urged a vote
    for George Allen. The question is, why did they not mention my own lifetime of
    support on these issues?

    In order to fully clear the air, I am making public my 2006 NRA Candidate
    Survey. You can find that at www.webbforsenate.com/nrasurvey.pdf I challenge
    George Allen to do the same. We should have no more secret surveys in Virginia
    when it comes to our right to keep and bear arms.

    Please help me clear up this deliberate distortion by an organization that I must
    regretfully conclude has more on its agenda than protecting the earned Second
    Amendment rights of our citizens.

    James Webb
    P.O. Box 17427, Arlington, Virginia 22216 • (703) 778-4080 • www.webbforsenate.com
    PAID BY JAMES WEBB FOR U.S. SENATE




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    Pointman wrote:
    da7f2q8 wrote:
    Dutch:

    You have composed what appears to be an excellent pledge that all our elected officials should take.

    I propose we (each and every one of us) e-mail this to our elected officials and demand that they sign on to uphold it.

    What say you all?
    I say they already pledge that when they take their oath of office and pledge to support the Constitution. They should be required to act in accordance.

    As far as Webb goes, he's not running for President. He's a great picture of him and Kerry, though: http://www.crimefilenews.com/2007/03/aide-to-sen-james-webb-d-va-busted-for.html
    So the problem with them publicly signing on to this pledge would be what?

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    da7f2q8 wrote:
    Dutch Uncle wrote
    Snip
    I fully support the 2nd amendment, including the right to own and buy guns, commercially or privately, as well as to carry them openly or concealed. I support the ownership of all guns commonly in circulation including semi-auto pistols, centerfire rifles and shotguns. I will also refuse to vote for any back door assaults on the 2nd amendment such as confiscatory taxes on firearms and ammo, abusive, politically motivated lawsuits against gun manufacturers, or outrageous fees for firearm related activities. I recognize that the 2nd amendment speaks to the right of individual citizens to arm for their self defense, defense of the state, or overthrow of a tyrannical government".
    Dutch:

    You have composed what appears to be an excellent pledge that all our elected officials should take.

    I propose we (each and every one of us) e-mail this to our elected officials and demand that they sign on to uphold it.

    What say you all?
    I've got an even simpler one for them to sign:

    " I fully support the second amendment, and believe that it means exactly what it says. I will not vote for any legislation that in ANY way infringes upon any American's right to keep and bear arms."

    How many congressmen, democrat OR republican, do you suppose would sign it?

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    GaGunOwner wrote:
    I hope I'm wrong but I believe that Obama, aided by the Democratically controlled Congress, will be able to pass AWB II which will include bans on mag. capacity. It most likely will not have a sunset provision. :X
    Nope. The AWB folks don't have the votes in the Senate, and won't -- unless the turnover there is something nobody expects.

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    The Donkey wrote:
    GaGunOwner wrote:
    I hope I'm wrong but I believe that Obama, aided by the Democratically controlled Congress, will be able to pass AWB II which will include bans on mag. capacity. It most likely will not have a sunset provision. :X
    Nope. The AWB folks don't have the votes in the Senate, and won't -- unless the turnover there is something nobody expects.
    IF nObama wins the election and IF as they think might happen the *Dems* get 60 seats in the Senate then they have the *Super Majority* they'll want/need and with no president to veto,,anything can happen boys and girls, just me sayin it
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Thomas Jefferson

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