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Thread: I like IHOP

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    So I haven't related much of my IHOP experience, but I routinely go to my local IHOP in the "wee hours" of the morning, and have become a well-known regular.

    All the staff recognize me, and most have heard me talk about OC at one time or another, so they all get it.


    At any rate, I think I influenced one of their security guards to OC. The reason I suspect this is that the security IHOP employs is usually unarmed. On the first couple occasions I went while the aforementioned guard was working, he was unarmed, and seemed to take quite an interest in my own firearm, although he never said anything. My guess is he was considering how basically useless his job becomes when OCing customers are present.

    From what I know, armed security guards are employed quite distinctly from unarmed ones, and are almost always issued .38 revolvers and cop-style uniforms/badges.

    On the third or fourth time I went to that IHOP, I noticed the guard was armed. However, he was still wearing the same black, very un-police-like uniform, and his gear looked very "non-issue": polymer-framed automatic in what appeared to be a paddle holster with the paddle in his pocket (lol).

    So, my thought was that he must have just taken the initiative to carry, on the assumption that the gun-accepting management and staff of the IHOP wouldn't blink an eye. If I am right, this would be an example of someone carrying openly while at work, without actually being employed specifically to carry.

    What do you guys think about my little theory?

    And does anybody have any good IHOP stories?

  2. #2
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    marshaul wrote:
    "his gear looked very "non-issue": polymer-framed automatic in what appeared to be a paddle holster with the paddle in his pocket (lol).
    oh please tell me that you are not serious! In his pocket?
    James Reynolds

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    Regular Member Prophet's Avatar
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    you could always ask him?

  4. #4
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Could cost him his job or more. Particularly if he is not certified by DCJS to be so armed.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  5. #5
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    I agree, Wallace Security requires strict certification to be an armed security officer.

    Is it possible to provide it as a "private contractor" and it be legal?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    marshaul wrote:
    And does anybody have any good IHOP stories?
    My little IHOP story is actually a warning.

    Check your tickets for correct figures and addition. Twice I have had tickets that started with a zero balance, had the correct entree prices and proper tax but added up to more - by over $1.50!

    Both times this was in the Richmond, Broad St facility. They wanted to argue with me even after I ran the figures on my calculator ......until I threatened to call the police.
    Reported in to Henrico PD afterwards who couldn't care less.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  7. #7
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    wehrmachtXD40_COLT45 wrote:
    I agree, Wallace Security requires strict certification to be an armed security officer.

    Is it possible to provide it as a "private contractor" and it be legal?
    DCJS requirements will still apply.

    Start here: http://www.dcjs.virginia.gov/pss/faq...fficer/Courier

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  8. #8
    Newbie W.E.G.'s Avatar
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    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...+6VAC20-171-10

    "Armed security officer" means a natural person employed to (i) safeguard and protect persons and property or (ii) deter theft, loss, or concealment of any tangible or intangible personal property on the premises he is contracted to protect, and who carries or has access to a firearm in the performance of his duties.

    ___________________

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...00+cod+9.1-139
    ยง 9.1-139. Licensing, certification, and registration required; qualifications; temporary licenses.
    A. No person shall engage in the private security services business or solicit private security business in the Commonwealth without having obtained a license from the Department. No person shall be issued a private security services business license until a compliance agent is designated in writing on forms provided by the Department. The compliance agent shall ensure the compliance of the private security services business with this article and shall meet the qualifications and perform the duties required by the regulations adopted by the Board. A compliance agent shall have either a minimum of (i) three years of managerial or supervisory experience in a private security services business; with a federal, state or local law-enforcement agency; or in a related field or (ii) five years of experience in a private security services business; with a federal, state or local law-enforcement agency; or in a related field.

    ___________________

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...6VAC20-171-500
    6VAC20-171-500. Disciplinary action; sanctions; publication of records.
    A. Each person subject to jurisdiction of this chapter who violates any statute or regulation pertaining to private security services shall be subject to sanctions imposed by the department regardless of criminal prosecution.
    B. The department may impose any of the following sanctions, singly or in combination, when it finds the respondent in violation or in noncompliance of the Code of Virginia or of this chapter:
    1. Letter of reprimand or censure;
    2. Probation for any period of time;
    3. Suspension of license, registration, certification, or approval granted, for any period of time;
    4. Revocation;
    5. Refusal to issue, renew or reinstate a license, registration, certification or approval;
    6. Fine not to exceed $2,500 per violation as long as the respondent was not criminally prosecuted;
    7. Remedial training.
    C. The department may conduct hearings and issue cease and desist orders to persons who engage in activities prohibited by this chapter but do not hold a valid license, certification or registration. Any person in violation of a cease and desist order entered by the department shall be subject to all of the remedies provided by law and, in addition, shall be subject to a civil penalty payable to the party injured by the violation.
    D. The director may summarily suspend a license, certification or registration under this chapter without a hearing, simultaneously with the filing of a formal complaint and notice for a hearing, if the director finds that the continued operations of the licensee or registrant would constitute a life-threatening situation, or has resulted in personal injury or loss to the public or to a consumer, or which may result in imminent harm, personal injury or loss.
    E. All proceedings pursuant to this section are matters of public record and shall be preserved. The department may publish a list of the names and addresses of all persons, licensees, firms, registrants, training schools, school directors, compliance agents and licensed firms whose conduct and activities are subject to this chapter and have been sanctioned or denied licensure, registration, certification or approval.

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    My ihop has no guard.. I OC there all the time (Sterling, VA)
    Carry On.

    Ed

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  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Interesting. I find it strange that a legal resident can OC a handgun without any sort of training or permit (of this I wholly approve), but a security guard requires proper certification (I don't understand the point of this).

    At any rate, I'm not in Virginia at the moment, so no way to ask the guy. I've never even talked to him before, anyway. Considering there are police in that location all the time, I'm sure either A: my assumption is wrong or B: he got reprimanded and that's why I only ever saw him armed the one time.

    This all happened some time ago, but I've been speculating ever since what was up with this guard and his very non-duty looking rig.

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    marshaul wrote:
    a security guard requires proper certification (I don't understand the point of this).
    My guess would be because they have arresting powers:

    Title 9.1-146 of the Code of Virginia limits the power of arrest for an offense occurring in his presence on such premises or in the presence of a merchant, agent, or employee of the merchant the private security business has contracted to protect, if the merchant, agent, or employee had probable cause to believe that the person arrested had shoplifted or committed willful concealment of goods.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    ed wrote:
    My ihop has no guard.. I OC there all the time (Sterling, VA)
    It's worth pointing out that of the two ihops I know for sure who hire security, the guards are only employed on the weekends, late at night (for the "rowdy" bar crowd, I imagine). So if you don't regularly attend ihop late or past midnight, I wouldn't expect to see a guard at any location.

    Either way, I don't see why they bother. Then again, police also like to hang out at IHOPs around 2 AM. Maybe they do get some busts out of it.

  13. #13
    Newbie W.E.G.'s Avatar
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    Raise your hand if this makes you mad.

    Alexandria police officer moonlighting as IHOP security guard shoots dine-and-dash teen.
    http://www.wtop.com/?nid=600&sid=1021053


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  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    W.E.G. wrote:
    Raise your hand if this makes you mad.

    Alexandria police officer moonlighting as IHOP security guard shoots dine-and-dash teen.
    http://www.wtop.com/?nid=600&sid=1021053
    What made me mad was your tag line "Alexandria police officer moonlighting as IHOP security guard shoots dine-and-dash teen."

    I was mad until I read this line: Stowe, a 13-year veteran of the force, fired at the teens' Jeep as it drove toward him.

    - - - -

    ALEXANDRIA, Va. - An Alexandria police officer who shot and killed a teenager last year will be disciplined, but not fired, police officials announced on Tuesday.

    Officer Carl Stowe was working as a security guard when he fired shots, killing 18-year-old Aaron Brown in a Duke Street IHOP parking lot on Feb. 25.
    Police Chief David Baker is not commenting on the decision, but police spokesman Jamie Bartlett says Stowe faces major discipline -- the maximum penalty short of being fired.
    Police officials are not revealing the length of the suspension, but Bartlett says the suspension is more than three but less than 30 days off without pay.
    The shooting occurred after a group of teens left the restaurant allegedly after failing to pay their bill.
    Stowe, a 13-year veteran of the force, fired at the teens' Jeep as it drove toward him.
    An internal police investigation found that Officer Stowe acted within department policy in his decision to use lethal force in self-defense, but found Stowe "unreasonably placed himself in a position that allowed the situation to elevate to a level of high risk" when he stepped in front of the Jeep.
    As a result of the incident, Alexandria Police changed their policy to prohibit officers from stepping in front of moving vehicles. Officers are also prohibited from firing at moving vehicles, except as a last resort.
    The Brown family says they feel "somewhat vindicated" upon learning of Chief Baker's decision.
    "Aaron Brown would not have died if Officer Stowe had followed his police department's rules," the family announced in a statement through their attorney. "We are also pleased that Chief Baker has announced a new policy...we hope this prevents other needless deaths."
    In June, the Alexandria Commonwealth attorney decided not to file criminal charges against Stowe.

    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    ed wrote:
    marshaul wrote:
    a security guard requires proper certification (I don't understand the point of this).
    My guess would be because they have arresting powers:

    Title 9.1-146 of the Code of Virginia limits the power of arrest for an offense occurring in his presence on such premises or in the presence of a merchant, agent, or employee of the merchant the private security business has contracted to protect, if the merchant, agent, or employee had probable cause to believe that the person arrested had shoplifted or committed willful concealment of goods.
    I wonder if LEO 229 will comment on this. I remember someone asking (I forget why) what law permits police to be armed, and LEO 229 babbling on about how police could carry for the same reason legal residents can (i.e. there is no law prohibiting it) and that, furthermore, being armed was just an expected part of the job of being a cop. Maybe he knows the answer.

  16. #16
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    W.E.G. wrote:
    Raise your hand if this makes you mad.

    Alexandria police officer moonlighting as IHOP security guard shoots dine-and-dash teen.
    http://www.wtop.com/?nid=600&sid=1021053
    Aaa, that is 2 1/2 year old news - not sure as to its currant relevance.
    But no it doesn't make me mad - it makes me sad.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    ed wrote:
    W.E.G. wrote:
    Raise your hand if this makes you mad.

    Alexandria police officer moonlighting as IHOP security guard shoots dine-and-dash teen.
    http://www.wtop.com/?nid=600&sid=1021053
    What made me mad was your tag line "Alexandria police officer moonlighting as IHOP security guard shoots dine-and-dash teen."

    I was mad until I read this line: Stowe, a 13-year veteran of the force, fired at the teens' Jeep as it drove toward him.
    I'll tell you what caught my attention:

    Police Chief David Baker is not commenting on the decision, but police spokesman Jamie Bartlett says Stowe faces major discipline -- the maximum penalty short of being fired.

    Police officials are not revealing the length of the suspension, but Bartlett says the suspension is more than three but less than 30 days off without pay.
    I must say, I laughed when I read this. I'm not convinced I shouldn't have been crying.

    Without getting into a debate of exactly how justified the cop was in his actions, my reaction is that I would never have put myself in the position to require a shot. It just seems perilously close to provoking the apparent threat of lethal force in order to justify using lethal force on the perp (I'm not saying this is what happened in this case).

    /off-topic

  18. #18
    Regular Member doug23838's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Could cost him his job or more. Particularly if he is not certified by DCJS to be so armed.

    Yata hey
    That's what I was thinking.



  19. #19
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    W.E.G. wrote:
    Raise your hand if this makes you mad.

    Alexandria police officer moonlighting as IHOP security guard shoots dine-and-dash teen.
    http://www.wtop.com/?nid=600&sid=1021053


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    If the officer stepped in front of the vehicle it raises serious doubt as to the kid's intent.

    This kind of thing could happen to any one of us. If your car is moving and an officer steps in front of it, it is still going to take some time to come to a complete stop.

    This officer decided to play chicken, but when the game got too real, he took this 18 year old kid's life. I think this officer should be prosecuted for manslaughter at least since it was his own actions which placed himself in unnecessary danger.

  20. #20
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    This type of mentality is why "Off Duty" Police should NOT be allowed to wear there LE uniforms unless they are on official duty! They are in a security guard mode, but yet many misrepresent themselves to be LEO's! This whole ball of wax is one very messing tado................................

    I cannot recall the state, maybe CA, but there was a big tado about something similar to this. As a result they were no longer allowed to where their uniforms off duty. The security companies had them where the same uniform as the other armed guards, but they got to where a sleeve chevron that had the generic "Police" emblem displayed.

    My 2 cents!

    Gunny :celebrate

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