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Video of Norfolk PD Officer Unlawfully Detaining Gun Owners and Interfering in Videotaping

Mike

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Pa. Patriot wrote:
Wow.I fianally got to watch the video again where I could crank up the sound...

When officer "OFF DUTY" demands ID, and Danbus refuses, *suddenly* the video becomes a problem! :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh: OMG! Where have we seen this before?!?

Nice job officer "Off Duty", the unemployment line has a spot reserved for you ;)
I'm confdused. Is it established that the officer was off duty?
 

Reverend73

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I'm not sure a law enforcement officer, much like a military member, is ever "off duty". Reno229, care to chime in ;)
 

nitrovic

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Mike wrote:
Pa. Patriot wrote:
Wow.I fianally got to watch the video again where I could crank up the sound...

When officer "OFF DUTY" demands ID, and Danbus refuses, *suddenly* the video becomes a problem!  :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh: OMG!   Where have we seen this before?!?

Nice job officer "Off Duty", the unemployment line has a spot reserved for you  ;)
I'm confdused.  Is it established that the officer was off duty?

I hate when articles use this term. This is often used because it is usually referenced as an "off duty detail" in police circles. Meaning, yes the officer is not working his usual hours. However, he is "on duty" as far as being an officer and wearing badge/gun etc. It's basically an O.T. type of thing.
 

nitrovic

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Reverend73 wrote:
I'm not sure a law enforcement officer, much like a military member, is ever "off duty".  Reno229, care to chime in ;)

It depends on the officer. I know when I'm not at work I am TOTALLY off duty. If I make the decision to assist a citizen (this has happened twice in my life) it is purely as another concerned citizen.
 

MackTheKnife

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Pa. Patriot wrote:
Mike wrote:
Pa. Patriot wrote:
~snip~
Nice job officer "Off Duty", the unemployment line has a spot reserved for you ;)
I'm confdused. Is it established that the officer was off duty? I wish that the answer to this was clear but I've only heard conjecture. The Tidewater area LEOs work part-time at various malls, jewelry stores, etc. for those private businesses but are allowed to wear their uniforms and issued weapons, gear. Since they are supposedly on duty 24/7, they are supposedly still LEOs even while acting as a security guard. Perhaps one of the barristers on OC.org can better answer this question.

As reported in article here:
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/17293-1.html
 

2a4all

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You could put this in the "Believe it or not" category, but

http://hamptonroads.com/2008/10/two-norfolk-law-enforcement-agencies-receive-honors

Two Norfolk law enforcement agencies receive honors
By Michelle Washington
The Virginian-Pilot
© October 24, 2008 NORFOLK

Two city law enforcement agencies have received honors during accreditation reviews.

The Sheriff’s Office received a score of 100 percent during its audit by the state Department of Corrections. The jail, run by Sheriff Bob McCabe, is the largest in the state. Spokeswoman Bonita Harris said overcrowding at the jail made the task more difficult.

The Police Department received its first accreditation from the Virginia Law Enforcement Professional Standards Commission. The accreditation assures that the department complies with the highest standards for law enforcement and professionalism.

According to the Police Department, 400 state law enforcement agencies are eligible for accreditation. Of those, 72 earned the accreditation, 26 of them police departments. The department will receive its accreditation certificate during the City Council meeting on Nov. 25.

Should we attend that City Council meeting?
 

TFred

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2a4all wrote:
You could put this in the "Believe it or not" category, but

http://hamptonroads.com/2008/10/two-norfolk-law-enforcement-agencies-receive-honors

Two Norfolk law enforcement agencies receive honors
By Michelle Washington
The Virginian-Pilot
© October 24, 2008 NORFOLK

Two city law enforcement agencies have received honors during accreditation reviews.

The Sheriff’s Office received a score of 100 percent during its audit by the state Department of Corrections. The jail, run by Sheriff Bob McCabe, is the largest in the state. Spokeswoman Bonita Harris said overcrowding at the jail made the task more difficult.

The Police Department received its first accreditation from the Virginia Law Enforcement Professional Standards Commission. The accreditation assures that the department complies with the highest standards for law enforcement and professionalism.

According to the Police Department, 400 state law enforcement agencies are eligible for accreditation. Of those, 72 earned the accreditation, 26 of them police departments. The department will receive its accreditation certificate during the City Council meeting on Nov. 25.

Should we attend that City Council meeting?
This is almost amusing... It seems to me that departments who pay 5 figure settlements to hush up mistakes they have made might ought to be excluded from consideration for this sort of a thing...

TFred
 

FreedomJoyAdventure

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2a4all wrote:
You could put this in the "Believe it or not" category, but

http://hamptonroads.com/2008/10/two-norfolk-law-enforcement-agencies-receive-honors

Two Norfolk law enforcement agencies receive honors
By Michelle Washington
The Virginian-Pilot
© October 24, 2008 NORFOLK

Two city law enforcement agencies have received honors during accreditation reviews.

The Sheriff’s Office received a score of 100 percent during its audit by the state Department of Corrections. The jail, run by Sheriff Bob McCabe, is the largest in the state. Spokeswoman Bonita Harris said overcrowding at the jail made the task more difficult.

The Police Department received its first accreditation from the Virginia Law Enforcement Professional Standards Commission. The accreditation assures that the department complies with the highest standards for law enforcement and professionalism.

According to the Police Department, 400 state law enforcement agencies are eligible for accreditation. Of those, 72 earned the accreditation, 26 of them police departments. The department will receive its accreditation certificate during the City Council meeting on Nov. 25.

Should we attend that City Council meeting?


If I lived in Virginia, I'd attend. But first I'd write a letter to the Virginia Law Enforcement Professional Standards Commission explaining why the Police Department should have its accreditation yanked (online petition, anyone?), and send copies to the police chief and each member of the city to let them know how you feel.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=free+online+petition&aq=f&oq=


And while you're at it, send letters to the editor of the local news explaining why the Police Department doesn't deserve this accreditation. List every rights violation they've ever been known to commit.
 

Citizen

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My experience on accreditation is limited.

However, I think there is a certain amount of reciprocity. The accreditation agencies want to work with the police since that is how they get paid. And the locality wants the accreditation agency because accreditation = lower insurance rates, as I understand it.

Its myguess that its not so much whether a police department follows the standards, as much as whether the policies and training reflecting the standards exist.

Areally good question for the accreditation agency would be, "How bad would the police department have to be before they lost their accreditation?" Or, "What triggers the process whereby a department loses accreditation?"

Follow themoney. Ignore thePRconnected to accreditation. I strongly suspectit is more about insurance rates and prestige than good policing. A police department like Norfolk, if interested in good policing,could have great standards and enforce them, and could have been doing it for a long time even without accreditation.
 

ixtow

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Mike wrote:
Pa. Patriot wrote:
Wow.I fianally got to watch the video again where I could crank up the sound...

When officer "OFF DUTY" demands ID, and Danbus refuses, *suddenly* the video becomes a problem! :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh: OMG! Where have we seen this before?!?

Nice job officer "Off Duty", the unemployment line has a spot reserved for you ;)
I'm confdused. Is it established that the officer was off duty?
Does it matter if he's off 'duty?'

He made a demand that no one needs to respond to. I'm no more required to give my ID to an Off Duty Officer than an On Duty one. Or a total stranger for that matter.

And none of those 3 can tell me to shut of my video, either.

I just wanna know who the capitulator with the camera is... ;-)
 

Doug Huffman

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Citizen wrote:
Areally good question for the accreditation agency would be, "How bad would the police department have to be before they lost their accreditation?" Or, "What triggers the process whereby a department loses accreditation?"

Follow themoney. Ignore thePRconnected to accreditation. I strongly suspectit is more about insurance rates and prestige than good policing. A police department like Norfolk, if interested in good policing,could have great standards and enforce them, and could have been doing it for a long time even without accreditation.
http://www.calea.org/Default.htm

http://www.calea.org/Online/CALEAPrograms/LawEnforcement/lawenfprogram.htm

http://www.calea.org/agcysearch/agencysearch.cfm

http://www.calea.org/Online/COMMENTS/feedback.htm

CALEA Feedback Please tell us what you think about our web-site, the accreditation or recognition process or correction to data. If you provide us with your contact information, we will be able to reach you in case we have any questions.

Send mail to calea@calea.org with questions or comments about this web site or write or phone us at: 10302 Eaton Place, Suite 100, Fairfax, Virginia 22030-2215, 800-368-3757 Copyright Commission on Accreditation for Law Enforcement Agencies, Inc. 2008-All Rights Reserved.
 

dlofton

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Good morning everyone,

My name is David and this is my first post on this website. I live in Schertz, TX, a smallish town on the outskirts of San Antonio.

I have read numerous posts over the last several weeks on OpenCarry.org and I would like to respond to several of them but just really didn't have the time until now. But before I do respond I guess I should give a little background about myself.

I am a currently serving Texas peace officer.But not in the capacity of most of my fellow LEOs. I am actually a full time mortgage loan officer for USAA and work part-time as a deputy constable. I used to be a full time officer several years ago but have decided that there is more money in corporate America than the public service. I do love being a peace officer, it is just that things are not the same now in my life since I now have four kids and wife.

For me, and many of my fellow LEOs may disagree for a WIDE variety of reasons, I am absolutely for open carry of arms. I am a strict constructionist by nature. For those of you that don't know what that is, look it up! In that capacity I believe the US Constitution provides for certain things. One of those things found within the Bill of Rights is the right to bear arms. Now, in the wording, it does NOT say anywhere in there whether this right to bear arms is reserved for open or concealed carry. And since the Constitution provides that "all rights not specifically enumerated are reserved to the several states", ths simply means that how arms are lawfully carried are decisions reserved to the state governments, NOT the federal government. This is the reason there will never be a nationwide concealed carry law because the US Constitution does not provide for this type of federal action.

Now, as far as for when I deal with people that have arms in their possession that I stop, they are treated the same as anyone else. I make sure it is a lawful firearm, that the person who posseses the arm is not a felon or a some other type of restricted category. Otherwise, they are sent on their way. I HAVE NEVER, EVER, EVEN ONCE, arrested someone for simply having a gun they wanted to carry. After more than 15 years of police work, both at the local and federal level, I can honestly say that open carry is just not that big a deal. WHERE one decides to open carry can be a big deal if they decide to do so in violation of a law. I would only enforce this if it were a serious transgression, otherwise I probably would let it ride.

Now, on this thread several of you have touched on the topic of "off duty" status of an officer. Under Texas law, a peace officer "can" make an arrest anywhere, anytime, and for any violation of the law. Now, does this mean the person is always "on duty".....NO. Peace officers are off duty just like the guy or gal that works at Wal-Mart. When their shift ends they go home just like the person that finishes their shift at the check out line at Wal-Mart. But unlike many other professions, peace officers do have some legislatively mandated resonsibilities, whether on or off duty. Now, as for when an "off duty" officer decides to take it upon himself or herself to enforce some law that he or she perceives has been violated in their presence....the law allows for this, but I advise only doing this under very limited circumstances. For me I would only do this for a violation of a felony...an only a significant felony at that! For the above reason I tell rookie police officer that once your shift ends, go home and do whatever it is you do and forget about police work until your next shift starts. It will keep you from loosing your hair and your sanity.

Just my two cents worth for this board.

David
 

TheEggman

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dlofton wrote:
Good morning everyone,

My name is David and this is my first post on this website. I live in Schertz, TX, a smallish town on the outskirts of San Antonio. [SNIP]

Just my two cents worth for this board.

David
Good day David, and welcome!

Always good to hear from one of the 'good guys.'

The only disparity here with my home state of VA is ...
"I make sure it is a lawful firearm, that the person who possesses the arm is not a felon or a some other type of restricted category. Otherwise, they are sent on their way."
Here, mere possession of an openly carried firearm is not, in itself, reason to stop and/or ID. Lacking reasonable cause 'running the ID and Numbers' is not allowed. (Not to say that it doesn't happen.)

Of course I understand that Open Carry in TX is not YET permitted.

Best wishes, and again, welcome.

Egg

PS: +10 for the post and the 'good guy' attitude.
 

dlofton

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Thanks Egg,

You may find this hard to believe, but the OpenCarry.org signs that are along I-35 are about a half a mile from my house. I was on my roof the other day and I actually could see the sign from my yard.

Yeah, Texas does not have open carry. I am not really sure why to be honest with you. But having been with some of my neighbors to the range in the last few months, it is probably a good thing some of them don't carry guns :) They may have more luck throwing the guns at the target instead of actually shooting them.

David
 

Mike

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dlofton wrote:
You may find this hard to believe, but the OpenCarry.org signs that are along I-35 are about a half a mile from my house. I was on my roof the other day and I actually could see the sign from my yard.
David - can you take a photo and post? Also, can your spread the word? we need more signatories to the petition, more folks to contact their legislators using the info in the link in texas forum, and frankly, MORE MONEY to keep that sign by your house up and running thru at least Jan. 09 when the legislature meets in Austin.
 

dlofton

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Sure...I will be happy to take a picture for you. The sign is at I-35 Exit 178 just north of Weiderstein Road. The sign actually faces south but it is on the north side. Trust me, you CAN'T miss it. I will drive by today and take a picture and will then post it to the thread.

David
 

nitrovic

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dlofton wrote:
Good morning everyone,

My name is David and this is my first post on this website.  I live in Schertz, TX, a smallish town on the outskirts of San Antonio. 

I have read numerous posts over the last several weeks on OpenCarry.org and I would like to respond to several of them but just really didn't have the time until now. But before I do respond I guess I should give a little background about myself.

I am a currently serving Texas peace officer. But not in the capacity of most of my fellow LEOs.  I am actually a full time mortgage loan officer for USAA and work part-time as a deputy constable.  I used to be a full time officer several years ago but have decided that there is more money in corporate America than the public service.  I do love being a peace officer, it is just that things are not the same now in my life since I now have four kids and wife. 

For me, and many of my fellow LEOs may disagree for a WIDE variety of reasons, I am absolutely for open carry of arms.  I am a strict constructionist by nature.  For those of you that don't know what that is, look it up!  In that capacity I believe the US Constitution provides for certain things.  One of those things found within the Bill of Rights is the right to bear arms.  Now, in the wording, it does NOT say anywhere in there whether this right to bear arms is reserved for open or concealed carry.  And since the Constitution provides that "all rights not specifically enumerated are reserved to the several states", ths simply means that how arms are lawfully carried are decisions reserved to the state governments, NOT the federal government.  This is the reason there will never be a nationwide concealed carry law because the US Constitution does not provide for this type of federal action. 

Now, as far as for when I deal with people that have arms in their possession that I stop, they are treated the same as anyone else.  I make sure it is a lawful firearm, that the person who posseses the arm is not a felon or a some other type of restricted category.  Otherwise, they are sent on their way.  I HAVE NEVER, EVER, EVEN ONCE, arrested someone for simply having a gun they wanted to carry.  After more than 15 years of police work, both at the local and federal level, I can honestly say that open carry is just not that big a deal.  WHERE one decides to open carry can be a big deal if they decide to do so in violation of a law.  I would only enforce this if it were a serious transgression, otherwise I probably would let it ride.

Now, on this thread several of you have touched on the topic of "off duty" status of an officer.  Under Texas law, a peace officer "can" make an arrest anywhere, anytime, and for any violation of the law.  Now, does this mean the person is always "on duty".....NO.  Peace officers are off duty just like the guy or gal that works at Wal-Mart.  When their shift ends they go home just like the person that finishes their shift at the check out line at Wal-Mart.  But unlike many other professions, peace officers do have some legislatively mandated resonsibilities, whether on or off duty.  Now, as for when an "off duty" officer decides to take it upon himself or herself to enforce some law that he or she perceives has been violated in their presence....the law allows for this, but I advise only doing this under very limited circumstances.  For me I would only do this for a violation of a felony...an only a significant felony at that!  For the above reason I tell rookie police officer that once your shift ends, go home and do whatever it is you do and forget about police work until your next shift starts.  It will keep you from loosing your hair and your sanity.

Just my two cents worth for this board.

David

Welcome David!! As stated prior in many threads, in Va many police departments allow their officers to be "rented out" by private companies. The word "off duty" is misleading and wrong. The officers are indeed on duty in a police capacity, just getting paid by the private company.
 
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