I believe there is no restriction and the guard was bluffing or misinformed.
Thread: Carrying firearms in Idaho
I was born in Idaho, but raised (and still live) in Washington. Most of my extended family still lives in Idaho and I visit often. I'd like to know where firearms are prohibited in Idaho. I see that I can't carry at a school or at a school event, but otherwise, I see no other restrictions. Can someone clarify this for me?
Extended background on this request: Saturday, I was at a large, catered event in Lewiston, OCing (and CCing a BUG). A portion of the facility was considered a "bar" area and there was a sign indicating that portion was closed to persons under the age of 21. Now, I am unaware of Idaho law in this manner, but in Washington it's against state law to carry any firearm into the "bar" area of a facility (defined specifically as that portion of the facility that is closed to minors under the age of 21). I can carry in a restaurant and I can drink while carrying (in WA), as long as I stay in the portion of the establishment that's open to minors.
As I wasn't sure of the legality in Idaho and I wanted to enter the "bar" area, I returned my firearms to my vehicle. I then approached the security guard who was hired for the event and he identified himself as an active (but off duty) LEO. I asked him what Idaho law said about firearms. He said I can not have a gun in any establishment that serves alcohol, period. I inquired as to whether this included the entire establishment, or just the 21 and over "bar" area. He said it includes the entire establishment. I asked if he knew that was the law for a fact and he responded in the affirmative.
I suspected he was full of it as I just can't see Idaho being more strict than Washington, but left the firearms in my vehicle anyway. Now that I'm home, I looked up Idaho's firearms laws and I see nothing about carrying guns in bars or other establishments that serve alcohol. I see that I can't carry while "intoxicated" or "under the influence", but that's immaterial as I was driving that night, and thus not drinking.
Anyway, I'd like to be prepared the next time I visit family, thus this post. Thank you for any advice you can give.
I believe there is no restriction and the guard was bluffing or misinformed.
Chuck Norris/Ted Nugent That's the ticket for 2016!
Its a touchy subject. Although technically you are free to carry while not under the influence. But entering the bar is demonstrating intent. So I would just be careful about where you do so.
Other places off-limits are the usual, public schools (K-12), court houses, post offices, and a few others. Feel free to carry anywhere else that is not strictly or obviously prohibited. You may also carry in all public libraries.
I have compiled a list here of Go, No Go businesses.
Confirmed Gun Friendly:
-Boise Public Library
-Boise Airport (before checkpoint)
-Walmart (Glenwood) (ask for a manager if you encounter issues)
-Walmart (Overland) (ask for a manager if you encounter issues)
NOTE: The STORE or GENERAL Manager
-Fred's "Reel" Barber Shop (Meridian, ID)
No Issues To Date (NITD) Unless Otherwise Noted:
-Paul's Market (Nampa)
-Barnes & Noble (Milwaukee)
-Walgreens (Nampa, 12th Ave and 7th St)
-Red Robin (Nampa)
-NAPA Auto (Downtown Nampa)
-Best Buy (Nampa)
-IHOP (Nampa-Caldwell Blvd)
-Boise Towne Square
-Circuit City (Boise)
-Idaho Humane Society
-Fred Meyer (Meridian, Fairview/Locust Grove)
-Lee Read Jewelers
-Capitol Mall (legislation change in progress)
You can find the updated list here:
First mistake. Never ask LEO if something is legal or not. They generally do not know, but will claim that they do.he identified himself as an active (but off duty) LEO. I asked him what Idaho law said about firearms
Agreed. One of the most important parts of carrying is knowing the laws well and being confident. You can carry in a bar, ya just can't be under the influence. As a rule of thumb if I know there is a potential for more than one drink, I disarm and don't take any chances.
Thanks folks, I appreciate the replies. NavyLT, I fully agree with you and normally avoid even talking with LEO, let alone asking for their advice. However, I wasn't in a place where I could look the law up and I'd already made the decision to put the guns in the car, so I decided asking the guy couldn't hurt. Worst case he fibs to me and I leave the guns in the car, best case he tells the truth and I re-arm. So I had nothing to lose this time. I, of course, did not tell him I was previously armed, just inquired as to the law.
I did prepare myself before I left, making sure OC was legal and that my WA CPL was accepted in Idaho, but I had no idea the venue would even be serving alcohol, let alone have a designated 21 and over bar area. So I didn't even think to look for that sort of law. When I walked in and saw the "Nobody under 21" sign, it caught me by surprise and with that LEO running around, I wasn't about to chance something that I knew full well was illegal in WA.
Funny thing is that nobody enforced the bar area restrictions. There were children running through the "21 and over" area all night.
Well if you aren't that sure of the law or just dont feel like memorizing all that jumbo, just print off Chapter 18 Section 33 of the Idaho State Code, the part that covers the possession and carry of firearms. Anyone who asks, you could just pull a card out of your wallet.
As far as the children running around, there is a big difference between simply passing through or loitering. Similarly, you can carry on any school grounds as long as it involves active loading or unloading...of PERSONS.
heres what the law says regarding alochol and CC......
18-3302B. CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPONS UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF ALCOHOL OR DRUGS.
It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a concealed weapon on or
about his person when intoxicated or under the influence of an intoxicating
drink or drug. Any violation of the provisions of this section shall be a
18-3302C. PROHIBITED CONDUCT.
any person obtaining a license under the
provisions of section 18-3302, Idaho Code, shall not:
(1) Carry a concealed weapon in a courthouse, juvenile detention facility
or jail, public or private school, except as provided in subsection (4)(f) of
section 18-3302D, Idaho Code;
its another case of ignorant security guard...
brickey vs. idaho reaffirmed the state of idaho can not regulate the opencarrying of a firearm on public property.
only private property owners can while u are on their property.
It's interesting to specifically note the several circumstances/places that CC is illegal, while OC remains legal.
anybody else think that OC is LEGAL on bsu campus???
ill show you why i believe so...
BRICKEY VS. IDAHO
The second amendment to the federal constitution is in the following language: 'A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.' The language of section 11, article I of the constitution of Idaho, is as follows: 'The people have the right to bear arms for their security and defense, but the legislature shall regulate the exercise of this right by law.' Under these constitutional provisions, the legislature has no power to prohibit a citizen from bearing arms in any portion of the state of Idaho, whether within or without the corporate limits of cities, towns, and villages."Brickey, 8 Ida. 597, at 598-99, 70 p. 609 (1902)
Hmmm.... I don't think I'll be the one to test that , but, you are welcome to! Let us know how that works out for ya!
Chuck Norris/Ted Nugent That's the ticket for 2016!
As far as I know, BSU will impose sanctions on any student who carries on campus, up to and including expulsion from BSU. They state that they will ask any non-student who carries on campus to leave, and if they do not, charge them with tresspassing. Based on my knowledge of Idaho preemption laws, that isn't actually legal, since the grounds of the university theoretically are public (the buildings may fall under different jurisdiction). However, there may be some additional aspect to it that allows them to treat the campus as non-public (which I disagree with). I'm not an expert with Idaho's preemption laws, but that is my understanding at least.
Here is their documentation regarding it: http://www.boisestate.edu/policy/pol...edPremises.pdf
I love how they say:
"A safe and secure environment is a fundamental requirement for fulfilling the University’s mission of teaching, research, and public service. Boise State University is committed to maintaining an environment that is free of violence. This obligation includes eliminating recognized hazards from the campus community that contribute to violence or serious harm."
and then as a conclusion of that, disallow students from carrying.
You are exactly right - all of the state's post-secondary institutions have such a policy, often buried in the student code of conduct. And they generally will just begin the disciplinary process right then and there, whatever the sanction they seek to impose.
And me being the stinkah I am, I'd like to see a little chaos over it. I have an idea that will cause LOTS of political fireworks for our viewing pleasure. And it won't require anyone to carry on campus or have personal interactions with law enforcement or university personnel or officials.
I think we could all learn a lot - and it would be FUN to read - if a member of this board were to post their correspondence, and correspondence they receive, here on the board - right?
Sorry, I can't do it due to some professional obligations where my employment would be jeopardized if I did - any non-state employee types interested? How about the individual who worked on or pushed the recent legislation - isn't that person a member? They'd be ideal, especially if they happened to be an elected legislator, because they getIMMEDIATE (as in "drop everything else and work in this pronto, deputy") attention from the Attorney General's office and...
.....the same level of attention from the entity that these colleges and universities answer to....the State Board of Education.
I'll post the most ideal and fun process (for members and viewers on this Board) - yes, there is a way to do this to maximize the attention it gets (and our fun) - in a subsequent post here if anyone's interested.
I'll give you a hint - and thank you to Toast for posting the link to BSU's policy:
Take a lookee-loo here: http://www.boardofed.idaho.gov/polic...ority07-08.pdf
The pertinent language is on page 2, Item A(4) - "
All Board Governing Policies and Procedures and the internal policies and procedures of its institutions, agencies and school will comply with and be in conformance to applicable laws.
And this is only the beginning....I've accumulated lots of information on this issue from personal research on the "inside" and from seeing how "hard questions" like this get treated by all the involved levels of "educrats" and state officials, elected and appointed....
Do it right (well, okay, how I think is right :P) and our brave authorcan smoke out all the individual players who have personal and/or professional disagreements with open carry, concealed carry, or RKBA in general, caisinga spotlight to be shone brightly on them for the public's consumption. There'll be a little typing involved (I'll help), some emailing back and forth with me and whoever is involved, a few postage stamps, and posting it all on the forum (again, I can't do that because I'm a 'puter newb, who obviously has just learned about emoticons; that'd be way over my head), and that's about it. BUT - jump the gun and fire off a letter to a legislator or the Governor, and we don't get to fully flesh out the issue - so please, DON'T do that yet...ok?
C'mon, I've been itching for the opportunity to pass on what I've learned to a brave soul, then sit back and watch it all unfold!!
*sigh* I'm disappointed there's no takers. Everyone here a paper tiger unless there's real ones and tv cameras?
Here's how to do it; go have fun:
1. Write the BSU president's office (letter, not an email; emails are useless). Do NOT include your phone number; only an address to which they can send a reply. Indicate you are a member of the public who has occasion to be on or near BSU, sometimes alone. You learned of this policy (the one Toast posted) and quote it. Ask how BSU can reconcile this policy with Idaho law, with Idaho being a pre-emption state for firearms regulation, and State Board of Education policy. Quote the State Board policy. Then ask for guidance as to whether you may carry a defensive weapon to assure your safety on the BSU campus.
This will smokeout who the gun grabbers are; policy is written from the President's office.
2. If you get no response after 21 days, or a response you don't like, you write (again, a letter, no emails) to the Executive Director of the Office of the State Board of Education and one Board member directly, at their home or place of business. I'd suggest Milford Terrell - he's the president of the Board and a huge BSU fan, and local. Ask the same question, and mention you've already written BSU. Send a photocopy of the letter you sent to the BSU president and a photocopy of any response they sent. If they didn't respond, say so. Ask for clarification from the State Board of Educationsince you received (1) an answer contrary to Board Policy and state law, or (2) NO answer from BSU. The Board meets every month so ask that you get a response to address this urgent problem to avoid any repercussions of ensuring your own personal safety on BSU's campus. Watch the website to see if your item gets put on the agenda - it'd be fun to go listen to them talk about it if the meeting is held in your town.
This will smoke out the gun grabbers in the office of the State Board of Education.
3. If you don't get a response from the individual board memberor the Office of the State Board of Education, or get an anti-gun response, write ALL of the members of the State Board of Education (their name, but care of the State Board of Education Office), and ccthe Governor's office. Write the same things as before- but take it up a notch. Paint the conflict as one between the Idaho Constitution and Idaho's pre-emption law on one side, versus the BSU policy on the other. Explain how you've written to BSU and got [no response/the wrong response], wrote to the State Board office and a Board member and got [no response/the wrong response], and now you have no choice but to seek clarification from the whole board/Governor's office. Include copies of all the previous letters you've sent, and received, at each level until this point.
This will get interesting, and will smoke out some more anti-RKBA sentiment. Believe me, folks, just because the Governor is Republican, and all the members of the State Board of Education are Republican and were appointed by Rebublican Governors (Except Luna - he's the Republican Superintendent of Public Instruction we elected) doesn't mean they're solid on RKBA - it just means they belong to the right party to get the positions they're in.
4. At this point you can wait to see how or if anyone resopnds, or turn it upa notch, and send the whole packet to your favorite, or at least current, state legislators. Send the whole packet, and ask for clarification in the law because a reasonable citizen will read the Idaho Constitution and pre-emption laws and believe they are within their rights to open carry or concealed carry on a college campus in Idaho, but when they do, they will face law enforcement and university sanctions, and given the conflict, the people of the state of Idaho need clarity and guidance.
At this point you shouldsend copies of all letters to and from everyoneto Bill Roberts, the education reporterthe Statesman, or maybe Dan Popkey, the politics guy. They have a knack for turning spotlights on government quandries.
Oh, and do it soon - cause if there's enough noise and attention by mid December, you know it will be on several legislator's minds when they convene in January to start on the new laws and whatnot.
Just my $.02 - keep the change.
i am up for the challenge....
i just received my FREE copy of The essential 2nd amendment manual, I read all 163 pages in a day... it had EVERYTHING u need to debate anti gunners...
including case law regarding 2nd amendment
www.glennbeck.com go to sponsors secction and click NRA
Add Red Robin near the mall in Boise.
I was up there refereeing hockey yesterday, and went to the gun show, and since I have no Red Robin here in the Nevada High Desert, went in.
Of course, I was concealed until I took off my jacket....For some reason it was really hot in there.
The staff seemed to not care, there were some cross looks from a couple mothers, and one husband seemed a little jealous...
Also add the Flying J Just off the interstate on Overland. The little Spanish girl at the register looked, but never flinched, and one of Boise's Finest in Blue whom I held the door for looked, smiled and said thank you, have a good day, which I returned the greeting....
CCW'd in High Desert HD, as I do at all HD dealers, cause sometimes the owners are a little left thinking....
Overall, I have been up to to Boise several times to work some games, and I find that hardly anyone in Boise cares if you carry......
Oh, the Maverick on ID 55 towards Marsing is okay with OC too....
Carl in Winnemucca
You can add the iMax theater on Overland as a business hostile to the right to carry. When you buy your ticket, you'll see a sign on the window saying no firearms, including concealed with a ccp. Of course I routinely ignore these signs as the worst they can do is ask me to leave on the scant chance they find out.
Seems fair since criminals ignore these signs too.
I ignore the signs at Edwards both at Overland and Cole and Downtown. Ok, actually I laugh and walk right by the rent a cop i have seen there from time to time.
You might check Idaho's preemption law which specifically allows colleges/universities to regulate firearms. This is from the exceptions in SB 1441, which was passed last spring:
"Ordinances adopted under this subsection may not apply to or affect:
(c) The authority of the board of regents of the university of Idaho, the boards of trustees of the state colleges and universities, the board of professional-technical education and the boards of trustees of each of the community colleges established under chapter 21, title 33, Idaho Code, to regulate in matters relating to firearms."
Unfortunately, the colleges were exempted from the preemption law because it would not have passed otherwise. Except for that, Idaho has one of the strongest preemption laws in the country.
I am fully aware of that BS about the Universities. CCW on campus at UI sparked a huge debate at UI last year that continues to this day. There is a student group up there that is working on getting the law changed to properly reflect state law.
The primary argument against us is that college kids would get drunk and kill everyone and why do we need guns on campus, they will only cause issues. I tend to carry anyway and haven't been caught in a year and a half.
check out concealedcampus.com or for U of Idaho specific
It is completely legal in the state of Idaho to ccw into a bar or facility that sells alcohol. However, you should not even think of taking a drink - even a sip. If you end up in an altercation that requires you to use your firearm for self-defense, you could end up in more trouble than you bargained for. Your judgement, reputation, decision making ... everything, will become suspect. If you carry in a bar, just like driving - don't drink.
1st ammendment under attack as well. Let's face it at some point we all will have to defend (with a gun) our right to carry. The nutty left will not stop until they control everything.
There it appears I've said too much.