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OC Pamphlet

Bronson

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,126
Location
Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
imported post

Venator wrote:
I have these comments so far. Use or ignore as you see fit.

My Comments:



Change: 18 years old or older.

Safety Inspection will be out-dated as of January 2009. Change to legally registered in Michigan.



This needs to be reworked.

WHY OPENLY CARRY A FIREARM?[/b]
[/b]To protect yourself
To protect your family
To protect your neighbor
To protect your rights
WHY NOT JUST CARRY CONCEALED?[/b]
[/b]Ifyou are under 21 you cannot obtain a CPL.
Some situations/conditions are conducive to open carry
Open carry is proactive rather than reactive
WON’T I BE A TARGET IF I OPEN CARRY?[/b]
[/b]It sounds logical, but a case has never been documented
Like locking your doors, the crook finds an easier victim
WON’T THIS BEHAVIOR SCARE PEOPLE?[/b]
[/b]A firearm in a holster is nothing to fear
Truth is, most people are too preoccupied to even notice
Police departments know how to address a worried caller



The question is why OC? The answers given can be done with CC, so why OC?

Change:

Why OC?

Faster draw.

More comfortable in warm weather.

Larger capacity handgun.

Crime deterrent.



WHY NOT JUST CARRY CONCEALED?

I would delete this question all together



WON’T I BE A TARGET IF I OPEN CARRY?

There is no documented evidence that this has happened to a citizen while open carrying a handgun. Data shows that criminals avoid victims they know are armed.

WON’T THIS BEHAVIOR SCARE PEOPLE?

Of the thousands of hours people have OCed in Michigan we have found that no one reacts in a hysterical manner. Our data suggest most times a 911 call is made is by an off- duty police officer. Most police encounters are instigated by officers themselves and complaints were not by the public.
.


[/b]


I would agree with the above mentioned changes.

Here are some of my own suggestions (great work on this by the way):

First interior page, the following paragraph needs an attribution. If it isn't shown to come from some person or organization with authority then it could just be Joe Dude giving his opinion--

A person openly carrying a firearm on foot in a legal manner when approached by a police officer and questioned where the only reason for the questioning is because of the openly carried firearm need not give that officer their name and address. No license or ID is required to openly carry a firearm. It is your option to provide ID/CPL


Third interior page, delete the following--confusing and irrelevent for the majority of people.

Applying these definitions to your question, it is clear that a reserve police officer, regardless whether he or she qualifies as a "peace officer," when carrying a handgun in a holster in plain view, is not waving or displaying the firearm in a threatening manner. Thus, such conduct does not constitute brandishing a firearm in violation of section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code.

Overall I think it's a great start but at this point I think it's still too wordy. Short sentences and/or paragraphs with quick, easy to read bulleted points. If that was handed to me I doubt I would read through it all.

I don't think the point of a brochure is to give ALL the pertinent information but enough to pique someone's interest and get them to look into it further.

Just my take.

Bronson
 

DanM

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
1,928
Location
West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
imported post

I would add to "Why OC?" (and, I would argue, one of most important reasons):

It'sthe onlychoice for thosewho can't afford concealed carry licensing.
 

Gosirr

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
80
Location
Hazel Park, Michigan, USA
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OK -I did a couple of changes today at work. Then i had the printer company next door print me a couple dozen. I'll bring them to the picnic Sunday, and get a hands on critique. New brochure below.
 

warlockmatized

Regular Member
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
720
Location
Silverwood, Michigan
imported post

Gosirr wrote:
OK -I did a couple of changes today at work. Then i had the printer company next door print me a couple dozen. I'll bring them to the picnic Sunday, and get a hands on critique. New brochure below.
The first thing that jumped out at me was having an S on the end of years. It sounds funny when i read it aloud to myself.

Any 18 years old or older, law-abiding citizen of the.....
 

Shadows

New member
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
8
Location
, , USA
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Gosirr wrote:
Small world---Shadows printer is my printer too.

No, i said i had a printer within my family. And you won't be able to get the same deal that i will.
cool.gif


And those were color laser printed, not thefinished product that will be printed threw his presses. By the way, isn't there going to be a Michigan flag inserted? Just curious.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
imported post

DanM wrote:
I would add to "Why OC?" (and, I would argue, one of most important reasons):

It'sthe onlychoice for thosewho can't afford concealed carry licensing.


Again the why OC answers can be accomplished by CCing. Not really getting the argument here.

Suggest again that we Change:
Why OC?
Faster draw.
More comfortable in warm weather.
Larger capacity handgun.
Crime deterrent.

Keep these two????

WON’T I BE A TARGET IF I OPEN CARRY?

There is no documented evidence that this has happened to a citizen while open carrying a handgun. Data shows that criminals avoid victims they know are armed.

WON’T THIS BEHAVIOR SCARE PEOPLE?

Of the thousands of hours people have OCed in Michigan we have found that no one reacts in a hysterical manner. Our data suggest most times a 911 call is made is by an off- duty police officer. Most police encounters are instigated by officers themselves and complaints were not by the public.
.
 

DanM

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
1,928
Location
West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
imported post

Venator wrote:
DanM wrote:
I would add to "Why OC?" (and, I would argue, one of most important reasons):

It'sthe onlychoice for thosewho can't afford concealed carry licensing.


Again the why OC answers can be accomplished by CCing. Not really getting the argument here.
[snip]

I don't understand. I'm adding totheWhy OC? list: faster draw . . . more comfortable . . . more affordable [my suggested point]. . . etc.
 

BigE

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
31
Location
Columbus, Michigan, USA
imported post

DanM wrote:
Venator wrote:
DanM wrote:
I would add to "Why OC?" (and, I would argue, one of most important reasons):

It'sthe onlychoice for thosewho can't afford concealed carry licensing.


Again the why OC answers can be accomplished by CCing. Not really getting the argument here.
[snip]

I don't understand. I'm adding totheWhy OC? list: faster draw . . . more comfortable . . . more affordable [my suggested point]. . . etc.


How about this? I tried to update per the posts I have read, Gossir I'm not trying to plagiarise the hard work you put into this document just trying to help our cause. DanM, I guess I just summarized what I believe is the reason "Why OC".....
 

BigE

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
31
Location
Columbus, Michigan, USA
imported post

BigE wrote:
DanM wrote:
Venator wrote:
DanM wrote:
I would add to "Why OC?" (and, I would argue, one of most important reasons):

It'sthe onlychoice for thosewho can't afford concealed carry licensing.


Again the why OC answers can be accomplished by CCing. Not really getting the argument here.
[snip]

I don't understand. I'm adding totheWhy OC? list: faster draw . . . more comfortable . . . more affordable [my suggested point]. . . etc.


How about this? I tried to update per the posts I have read, Gossir I'm not trying to plagiarise the hard work you put into this document just trying to help our cause. DanM, I guess I just summarized what I believe is the reason "Why OC".....


Sorry, just reread what I typed on the 4th amendment and realized I typed reasonable search instead of UNreasonable search. Spelling and grammar check are great, but definitely not a replacement for proof reading. I corrected and re uploaded.
 

Gosirr

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
80
Location
Hazel Park, Michigan, USA
imported post

Shadows wrote:
Gosirr wrote:
Small world---Shadows printer is my printer too.

No, i said i had a printer within my family. And you won't be able to get the same deal that i will.
cool.gif


And those were color laser printed, not thefinished product that will be printed threw his presses. By the way, isn't there going to be a Michigan flag inserted? Just curious.
Relax big shot- im not breaking into your son-in-lawsbusiness. FYI terrey did it for free, cant get much cheaper than that...and he told me to ask for more whenI needed them. I'm done with this project. If anybody else want to finish it up go right a head.
 

Gosirr

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
80
Location
Hazel Park, Michigan, USA
imported post

BigE wrote:
How about this? I tried to update per the posts I have read, Gossir I'm not trying to plagiarise the hard work you put into this document just trying to help our cause. DanM, I guess I just summarized what I believe is the reason "Why OC".....
BigE i got all the info from these great guys. No plagiarism.
 

warlockmatized

Regular Member
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
720
Location
Silverwood, Michigan
imported post

Gosirr wrote:
Shadows wrote:
Gosirr wrote:
Small world---Shadows printer is my printer too.

No, i said i had a printer within my family. And you won't be able to get the same deal that i will.
cool.gif


And those were color laser printed, not thefinished product that will be printed threw his presses. By the way, isn't there going to be a Michigan flag inserted? Just curious.
SNIP: I'm done with this project. If anybody else want to finish it up go right a head.
Gosirr I personally would like to see you continue. You have done a WONDERFUL job thus far. Please don't let a few comments rub you the wrong way. Please continue and see it through to a finished product.
 

SQLtables

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
894
Location
Secretary MOC, Inc. Frankenmuth, , USA
imported post

warlockmatized wrote:
Gosirr wrote:
Shadows wrote:
Gosirr wrote:
Small world---Shadows printer is my printer too.

No, i said i had a printer within my family. And you won't be able to get the same deal that i will.     
cool.gif
 

And those were color laser printed, not the finished product that will be printed threw his presses. By the way, isn't there going to be a Michigan flag inserted? Just curious.
  SNIP: I'm done with this project. If anybody else want to finish it up go right a head.
Gosirr I personally would like to see you continue. You have done a WONDERFUL job thus far. Please don't let a few comments rub you the wrong way. Please continue and see it through to a finished product.

What comment could have possibly rubbed anybody the wrong way? This forum seems to have an increasing problem with people being upset by things that don't matter.. especially on the internet. Come on people.

Gosirr, I think you've been doing a good job on this pamphlet and hope you see it through to the final product. Why do you say you're done?
 

Shadows

New member
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
8
Location
, , USA
imported post

Gosirr wrote:
Shadows wrote:
Gosirr wrote:
Small world---Shadows printer is my printer too.

No, i said i had a printer within my family. And you won't be able to get the same deal that i will.
cool.gif


And those were color laser printed, not thefinished product that will be printed threw his presses. By the way, isn't there going to be a Michigan flag inserted? Just curious.
Relax big shot- im not breaking into your son-in-lawsbusiness. FYI terrey did it for free, cant get much cheaper than that...and he told me to ask for more whenI needed them. I'm done with this project. If anybody else want to finish it up go right a head.
I don't know what your problem is,I was just straightening out your miss statement about a printer within my family. And I'll let you know, he won't be doing those flyers for free. You did get a few printed on a laser for nothing, but he won't print any on his presses for free. If you have a problem with me pm me and keep it off this forum, it's not needed

I'm not trying to start anything here, but i did talk to him already about those flyers well before your dadwent there.
 

JeffSayers

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
629
Location
Do you really wanna go there with me?, Michigan, U
imported post

Aww c'mon guys. Can't we all get along? :cry:A house divided cannot stand.

Really doesn't matter who prints them, we just need brochures. If the revisions are too much, we can just use what was in the original flyers as they did work just fine.

Gossir, I appreciate your efforts and would also like to see you pull through to the end. Maybe youand Shadowscould go to the printing place together and sell them on our cause...maybe that would get us free or at-cost prints?
 

taxwhat

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2008
Messages
800
Location
S E Michgan all mine, Michigan, USA
imported post

One cause many minds great ideas blood and sweat the past the future ! I would like to donate 20;00 buck and walk away with 200 copies for Nov 2 2008 , Monroe indoor -outdoor get together .
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
imported post

Lets get back on track. I wrote and researched most of the info packet and put it out there to be used. If someone wants to use it fine. If they want to change it fine. But if we are going to use it as a MOC handout then it's appropriate that we have a chance to comment and make suggestions. My comments were suggestions mostly on the why OC section. Perhaps we should just delete it and let the reader of the handout make up his/her mind about OCing. I'm not keen on just posting the 2nd amd. as an answer, but that's me.

I do like the idea of using a state flag and I can work on this. Below is one idea using the US and state flag with the logo. whoever works on the handout can PM me with an email and I can send the graphic file. If others have ideas on a flag display post them and I will try and work something else out.
 
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