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Thread: Did I break the law yesterday!!!!!

  1. #1
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    Yesterday as I was going home the traffic was backed up with a pile of blue lights flashing up ahead. I figured it was an accident. The I saw around the cars in front that it looked like most were being redirected around the accident onto a side street. As I got closer I noticed a sign that said Sheriff's Check Point.:shock: I placed my gun in my console which is legal in SC and decided to go ahead and get out my license and registration. When I finally got up to the check point I could see that all those cars that they had redirected were parked on the side street and looked like being wrttien a ticket.

    I got up to the LEO and he asked for my license and registration. I handed it to him, he walked around behind, checked the license plate, handed my license back and registration back to me and said "Have a safe trip, Sir". The odd thing was this was being directed by the Sheriff's Department, I didn't see any Highway Patrolmen or City Police. I have a feeling that they were looking for more than drunk drivers or expired license.

    Since I had my gun in my console and not on me I didn't show him my CWP like I am supposed to do. I also did not ask him if I was being detained. What else did I do wrong?

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    Notifying an LEO about your Concealed Weapon only matters if you have the weapon concealed on your person. Which you didn't.

    I'm not familar with NC Gun laws, so this is just IMO.

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    PT111 wrote:
    Yesterday as I was going home the traffic was backed up with a pile of blue lights flashing up ahead. I figured it was an accident. The I saw around the cars in front that it looked like most were being redirected around the accident onto a side street. As I got closer I noticed a sign that said Sheriff's Check Point.:shock: I placed my gun in my console which is legal in SC and decided to go ahead and get out my license and registration. When I finally got up to the check point I could see that all those cars that they had redirected were parked on the side street and looked like being wrttien a ticket.

    I got up to the LEO and he asked for my license and registration. I handed it to him, he walked around behind, checked the license plate, handed my license back and registration back to me and said "Have a safe trip, Sir". The odd thing was this was being directed by the Sheriff's Department, I didn't see any Highway Patrolmen or City Police. I have a feeling that they were looking for more than drunk drivers or expired license.

    Since I had my gun in my console and not on me I didn't show him my CWP like I am supposed to do. I also did not ask him if I was being detained. What else did I do wrong?
    In NC you must notify.

    PT, this is a thread from the NC sub-forum that may answer your questions/concerns.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum41/15462.html

    Also: http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USOffLimitsN-W.pdf

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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    PT111 wrote:
    Yesterday as I was going home the traffic was backed up with a pile of blue lights flashing up ahead. I figured it was an accident. The I saw around the cars in front that it looked like most were being redirected around the accident onto a side street. As I got closer I noticed a sign that said Sheriff's Check Point.:shock: I placed my gun in my console which is legal in SC and decided to go ahead and get out my license and registration. When I finally got up to the check point I could see that all those cars that they had redirected were parked on the side street and looked like being wrttien a ticket.

    I got up to the LEO and he asked for my license and registration. I handed it to him, he walked around behind, checked the license plate, handed my license back and registration back to me and said "Have a safe trip, Sir". The odd thing was this was being directed by the Sheriff's Department, I didn't see any Highway Patrolmen or City Police. I have a feeling that they were looking for more than drunk drivers or expired license.

    Since I had my gun in my console and not on me I didn't show him my CWP like I am supposed to do. I also did not ask him if I was being detained. What else did I do wrong?
    In NC you must notify.

    PT, this is a thread from the NC sub-forum that may answer your questions/concerns.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum41/15462.html

    Also: http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USOffLimitsN-W.pdf
    Yea accoring to the bottom link, you HAVE to notify an LEO if you have that Permit.

    Which is why were against CWP permits tobegin with.







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    A check point for no reason? When did this become Nazi Germany? I can see a DUI check pointbecause it has a clearpurpose,and they don't ask "to see your papers," or do anything but check for intoxication. Sounds like they were the ones breaking the law.

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    I am in SC, not NC and the laws are different. In SC you can have gun in your console or glove box with or without a permit and you cannot OC. That is why I put it in the glove box and did not show my permit.

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    Per SC Law: ) A permit holder must have his permit identification card in his possession whenever he carries a concealable weapon. When carrying a concealable weapon pursuant to Article 4 of Chapter 31 of Title 23, a permit holder must inform a law enforcement officer of the fact that he is a permit holder and present the permit identification card when an officer (1) identifies himself as a law enforcement officer and (2) requests identification or a driver's license from a permit holder. A permit holder immediately must report the loss or theft of a permit identification card to SLED headquarters. A person who violates the provisions of this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined twenty-five dollars.



    Looks like you only HAVE to offer CWP with DL if carrying on person. I think as a courtesy, I personallywould have presented, even if my weapon was in my center console, and also advised the LEO at time of presentation that I have a weapon in my console. That's just me.



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    Patiwack0 wrote:
    Looks like you only HAVE to offer CWP with DL if carrying on person. I think as a courtesy, I personallywould have presented, even if my weapon was in my center console, and also advised the LEO at time of presentation that I have a weapon in my console. That's just me.

    That's what I said to begin with. I personaly would not tell him unless he ask. Same with why If a Cop comes to my house,I don't start telling him where all my weapons are inside.

    It's no threat to him, so there's no need for him to know.

    Of cuorse all this changes if he ask me, and or if he asks to search my vehicle, which I would gladly say yes sir, you can search my vehicle, as soon as you provide a WARRANT !

    I love how on Woldest Police Chases the Cops are so sneaky in getting people to let them search their ride, b/c they don't know that they can refuse/ Sad thing is they almost always find something, and people like us are rarely questioned and asked if they can search our vehicles.

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    Check points are unconstitutional, period.

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

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    Patiwack0 wrote:
    Per SC Law: ) A permit holder must have his permit identification card in his possession whenever he carries a concealable weapon. When carrying a concealable weapon pursuant to Article 4 of Chapter 31 of Title 23, a permit holder must inform a law enforcement officer of the fact that he is a permit holder and present the permit identification card when an officer (1) identifies himself as a law enforcement officer and (2) requests identification or a driver's license from a permit holder. A permit holder immediately must report the loss or theft of a permit identification card to SLED headquarters. A person who violates the provisions of this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined twenty-five dollars.



    Looks like you only HAVE to offer CWP with DL if carrying on person. I think as a courtesy, I personallywould have presented, even if my weapon was in my center console, and also advised the LEO at time of presentation that I have a weapon in my console. That's just me.

    Key word-- "Concealable" not concealed "concealable" no matter where it is , if it's concealable then they wanna know..

    Thats the way i read it..

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    http://www.scstatehouse.net/code/t23c031.htm

    ARTICLE 4.

    CONCEALED WEAPON PERMITS
    SECTION 23-31-205. Name.
    This article may be cited as the "Law Abiding Citizens Self-Defense Act of 1996".

    SECTION 23-31-210. Definitions.

    As used in this article:
    [ ...]
    (6) "Concealable weapon" means a firearm having a length of less than twelve inches measured along its greatest dimension that must be carried in a manner that is hidden from public view in normal wear of clothing except when needed for self-defense, defense of others, and the protection of real or personal property.
    SECTION 23-31-215. Issuance of permits.
    (K) A permit holder must have his permit identification card in his possession whenever he carries a concealable weapon. When carrying a concealable weapon pursuant to Article 4 of Chapter 31 of Title 23, a permit holder must inform a law enforcement officer of the fact that he is a permit holder and present the permit identification card when an officer (1) identifies himself as a law enforcement officer and (2) requests identification or a driver's license from a permit holder. A permit holder immediately must report the loss or theft of a permit identification card to SLED headquarters. A person who violates the provisions of this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined twenty-five dollars.
    The next previous poster is not correct.

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    Panos1296 wrote:
    Check points are unconstitutional, period.

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


    Exactly. What happens if I don't want to give them my reg and license? They have no probable cause, let alone a warrant,to search my car or ask me for anything. You can't just stop random, law abiding peopleto go "fishing" for violators. Like I said already, around here they don't ask you for anything at DUI stops. A simple, "How are you tonight? or, "where are you headed?" to check for alcohol on your breath and coherenceis all they do. Even that is questionable because they have no cause to inconvenience you, but I'd let it fly if it gets drunk drivers off the road (and it does).

    Based on that alone, who cares what the law says about notification of a concealed weapon if the search was illegal in the first place?

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    http://www.scstatehouse.net/code/t23c031.htm


    ARTICLE 4.


    CONCEALED WEAPON PERMITS
    SECTION 23-31-205. Name.
    This article may be cited as the "Law Abiding Citizens Self-Defense Act of 1996".

    SECTION 23-31-210. Definitions.

    As used in this article:
    [ ...]
    (6) "Concealable weapon" means a firearm having a length of less than twelve inches measured along its greatest dimension that must be carried in a manner that is hidden from public view in normal wear of clothing except when needed for self-defense, defense of others, and the protection of real or personal property.
    SECTION 23-31-215. Issuance of permits.
    (K) A permit holder must have his permit identification card in his possession whenever he carries a concealable weapon. When carrying a concealable weapon pursuant to Article 4 of Chapter 31 of Title 23, a permit holder must inform a law enforcement officer of the fact that he is a permit holder and present the permit identification card when an officer (1) identifies himself as a law enforcement officer and (2) requests identification or a driver's license from a permit holder. A permit holder immediately must report the loss or theft of a permit identification card to SLED headquarters. A person who violates the provisions of this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined twenty-five dollars.
    The next previous poster is not correct.
    Does ( when carrying a concealable weapon ) specify on your person, or in your posession ?

    whats the wording contained in article 4 of chapter 2 of title 23 ?

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    Article 4 is also known as The Law Abiding Citizens Self-Defense Act of 1996 quoted above, Section 23-31-205.

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    Carnivore wrote:
    Does ( when carrying a concealable weapon ) specify on your person, or in your posession ?

    whats the wording contained in article 4 of chapter 2 of title 23 ?
    As someone pointed out to me, carry means the actual act of carrying. Posession is not neccessarily carrying, but carrying is posession.

    He was not carrying the handgun, but it was in his posession. Thus, my interpritation would be that he was under no obligation to declair. But honestly, I would not declare either. What he doesn't know could hurt him, but his knowing it could hurt you depending on the purpose of the inspection.

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    Thanks to the mod/admin for moving this to a more precise and local forum.

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    I don't like the BS DUI stops either. If you roll up to one they consider it consent, because you could have turned around and avoided it...but if you turn around you get pulled over for being suspicious.

    I don't agree with entrapment or shady tactics to enforce the law. I agree that like in VA most states should employ an annual safety inspection. Checking for registration I believe they can wait on the side of the road or in a parkinglot and see the stickers. If it is expired they give you a ticket. Pulling everyone on the road to see if they are registered is too much like asking for papers...regardless of what the courts say.

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    Politics and opinion on roadside checkpoints aside, you did not break the law. If the handgun was in your closed console (or glove box) you were not carrying pursuant to your CWP, therefore you were under no legal requirement to notify.

    On the other hand, if you hadn't already grabbed your documents and they were in the console, I'd be sure to notify before opening it in front of the cop. It might keep you from becoming a statistic.
    "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun."

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    Sheriff wrote:
    Panos1296 wrote:
    Check points are unconstitutional, period.

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
    The courts disagree with you. You have no constitutional right totravel the public roadways with slick tires, a broken windshield, expired license plates or under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol.

    Seeing as to how I might drink 6 beersa year, I also dislike the idea of having to stop at a roadblock and prove I have not been drinking while driving. I also hate having to stop and prove my tires are not slick, my license plates are currentand my windshield is not cracked, but it is necessary for the safety of other citizens on the road.
    Yes,we must bethankful to have govt to protect us. LOL. Freedom isnt free, right? "Your papers, please! What is your business on our govt roads tonight?"

    "Those willing to give up liberty for security deserve neither." -Benjamin Franklin


    If I am stopped for slick tires or a broken windshield, so be it. The blanket stops of EVERY driver is unconstitutional because there is no probable cause, regardless of what some judges say. Half the laws we have in this country are unconstitional but govt doesnt give a toss. They are our rulers, remember? Free country? Not anymore.

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    Dustin wrote:
    Of cuorse all this changes if he ask me, and or if he asks to search my vehicle, which I would gladly say yes sir, you can search my vehicle, as soon as you provide a WARRANT !

    I love how on Woldest Police Chases the Cops are so sneaky in getting people to let them search their ride, b/c they don't know that they can refuse/ Sad thing is they almost always find something, and people like us are rarely questioned and asked if they can search our vehicles.
    Actually the Supreme court has ruled that the police can search your vehicle for "officer safety", they are limited to areas of your immediate control where you may have hidden a weapon. Under the front seats, unlocked console, and a unlocked glove box for example can be searched without a warrant during any traffic stop.

    Yep, the Supreme court has pissed on the Constitution more than once. Wait till we see the Nazi bastards that Obama puts on the high court (should the little maggot get elected).

    A lockable briefcase (preferably metal) on the passenger seat is great for a quick stash place. Locked luggage, containers etc. in a vehicle always require a warrant.

    I use this however any lockable case will do.

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    In SC a briefcase MAY get you in trouble. IIRC a lady's purse has been tested in court but not, to my knowledge, a 'briefcase'.

    Gun carry is illegal in SC with some notable exceptions, like a CWPermitee, that do not include other-than-wearing/apparel.

    SECTION 16-23-20. Unlawful carrying of handgun; exceptions.

    It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any handgun, whether concealed or not, except as follows, unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law:
    [ ... ]
    (9) a person in a vehicle if the handgun is: (a) secured in a closed glove compartment, closed console, closed trunk, or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener and transported in the luggage compartment of the vehicle; however, this item is not violated if the glove compartment, console, or trunk is opened in the presence of a law enforcement officer for the sole purpose of retrieving a driver's license, registration, or proof of insurance; or
    [ ... ]




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    Search of a locked briefcase in a carrequires a search warrant Everywhere in the U.S.

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    PT111 wrote:
    Yesterday as I was going home the traffic was backed up with a pile of blue lights flashing up ahead. I figured it was an accident. The I saw around the cars in front that it looked like most were being redirected around the accident onto a side street. As I got closer I noticed a sign that said Sheriff's Check Point.:shock: I placed my gun in my console which is legal in SC and decided to go ahead and get out my license and registration. When I finally got up to the check point I could see that all those cars that they had redirected were parked on the side street and looked like being wrttien a ticket.

    I got up to the LEO and he asked for my license and registration. I handed it to him, he walked around behind, checked the license plate, handed my license back and registration back to me and said "Have a safe trip, Sir". The odd thing was this was being directed by the Sheriff's Department, I didn't see any Highway Patrolmen or City Police. I have a feeling that they were looking for more than drunk drivers or expired license.

    Since I had my gun in my console and not on me I didn't show him my CWP like I am supposed to do. I also did not ask him if I was being detained. What else did I do wrong?
    You did not break any laws. You only have to notify if theweapon is concealed in your vehicle or on your person. By placing the weapon in plain sight on your console or seat nullifies the right to notify. This is at least true in NC.

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    Caveman93 wrote:
    You did not break any laws. You only have to notify if theweapon is concealed in your vehicle or on your person. By placing the weapon in plain sight on your console or seat nullifies the right to notify. This is at least true in NC.
    But he would have certainly broken the law in South Carolina and been arrested if he followed your "advice". In the future I hope you'll re-think using information for one state to advise someone on a situation in another state. It's probably not the best idea. Sometimes the smartest and most helpfulthing you can say is nothing at all.
    "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun."

  25. #25
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    hp-hobo wrote:
    Caveman93 wrote:
    You did not break any laws. You only have to notify if theweapon is concealed in your vehicle or on your person. By placing the weapon in plain sight on your console or seat nullifies the right to notify. This is at least true in NC.
    But he would have certainly broken the law in South Carolina and been arrested if he followed your "advice". In the future I hope you'll re-think using information for one state to advise someone on a situation in another state. It's probably not the best idea. Sometimes the smartest and most helpfulthing you can say is nothing at all.
    +1 Absolutly the wrong advice

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