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Thread: Getting a VA ID card

  1. #1
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    Hey all,

    So I just moved to Virginia to attend grad school. I know federal regulations allow me to buy guns, etc here during the time of the year when I reside here. But I went to the DMV to get myself an ID card, and they said I would have to surrender my out of state DL! :X I know other states allow you to get an ID card only and keep your out of state DL, so why is Virginia so stingy about it?

    Does anyone know what I can do here?

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    I have never heard of DMV requiring the surrender of a DL to get a ID Card. Are you sure there wasn't a misunderstanding to your intentions. I know people with out of state DL and a VA ID. card.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    No they were quite adamant about it - I told them over and over that I just wanted an ID card, not a second DL. No dice....

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    Just take your BC and ask for a state ID.

    Say nothing about a DL.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    This didn't sound right to me either... given the below code, I wonder if the issue is, DMV can't give you an ID unless you become a Virginia resident - not just a temporary visitor. Not sure how this applies....

    § 46.2-323.1. Certification of Virginia residency; nonresidents not to be issued driver's licenses, commercial driver's licenses, learner's permits, or special identification card; penalty.

    No driver's license, commercial driver's license, temporary driver's permit, learner's permit, motorcycle learner's permit, or special identification card shall be issued to any person who is not a Virginia resident. Every person applying for a driver's license, commercial driver's license, temporary driver's permit, learner's permit, motorcycle learner's permit, or special identification card shall execute and furnish to the Commissioner his certificate that he is a resident of Virginia. The Commissioner or his duly authorized agent may require any such applicant to supply, along with his application, such evidence of his Virginia residency as the Commissioner may deem appropriate and adequate, provided that neither an immigration visa nor a signed written statement, whether or not such statement is notarized, wherein the maker of the statement vouches for the Virginia residency of the applicant, shall be acceptable proof of Virginia residency. If the applicant is less than nineteen years old and cannot otherwise provide proof of Virginia residency, the Commissioner may accept proof of the applicant's parent's or guardian's Virginia residency. Any minor providing proper evidence of the solemnization of his marriage or a certified copy of a court order of emancipation shall not be required to provide the parent's certification of residency. It shall be unlawful for any applicant knowingly to make a false certification of Virginia residency or supply false or fictitious evidence of Virginia residency. Any violation of this section shall be punished as provided in § 46.2-348.

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    BTW - here's the link to search Virginia Code:

    http://legis.state.va.us/Laws/CodeofVa.htm

    Maybe you can find a better answer.

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    You can't get a Va. state ID anymore without "proof" that you're a bonafide resident of Virginia. I tried to get one for my wife, who is a Croatian national so that she wouldn't have to carry her passport everywhere, but no dice!

    We presented our marriage certificate and my Virginia ID. No way. You'll have to surrender your out of state DL, show a power bill with your current Virginia address with your name on the bill, a set of military orders, a valid US passport and a current virginia car registration to get an ID, or a combination of the above that is too complicated for anyone at DMV to figure out.

    Most gun dealers will require TWO forms of valid Virginia ID or a valid Virginia car registration in order to buy a gun. If you want to buy an "assault weapon" better bring your passport because you now need to prove that you're a US citizen also. Two forms of Virginia ID WILL NOT SUFFICE!
    Bitka Sve Reava!
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    ^ but I do qualify based on what the DMV asks for for "proof of Virginia residency", namely that I am enrolled in an accredited Virginia university.

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    Not necessarily. Do you pay in-state or out-of-state tuition? If you have a job (part-time or other) do you pay Virginia state taxes on your earnings? Have you declared Virginia as your PERMENENT home of record?

    If you pay out-of-state tuition, you are NOT a Virginia resident. If you don't pay Virginia State Income Tax, you are NOT a resident. If you haven't declared permentant residency in Virginia, you are NOT a Virginia resident.

    If you are NOT a legal resident of Virginia and try to purchase a gun at a licensed gun shop in Virginia, you have committed a federal AND a state crime punishable under state and federal law.

    If you can't establish LEGAL residency in Virginia and want to purchase a gun, I suggest that you buy one privately through the Tidewater Trading Post, but even then, many private sellers will want to see VALID Virginia ID before selling to you.


    Bitka Sve Reava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

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    ODA 226 wrote:
    You can't get a Va. state ID anymore without "proof" that you're a bonafide resident of Virginia. I tried to get one for my wife, who is a Croatian national so that she wouldn't have to carry her passport everywhere, but no dice!

    We presented our marriage certificate and my Virginia ID. No way. You'll have to surrender your out of state DL, show a power bill with your current Virginia address with your name on the bill, a set of military orders, a valid US passport and a current virginia car registration to get an ID, or a combination of the above that is too complicated for anyone at DMV to figure out.

    Most gun dealers will require TWO forms of valid Virginia ID or a valid Virginia car registration in order to buy a gun. If you want to buy an "assault weapon" better bring your passport because you now need to prove that you're a US citizen also. Two forms of Virginia ID WILL NOT SUFFICE!
    Common misconception that non-US citizens cannot buy "assault weapons" Actually, they can buy any guns - assault or not - as long as they are permanent residents (green card holders). The difference is that a US citizen only has to provide 2 forms of ID (DL and car registration) in order to buy a non-assault gun and in case of assault ones they also need to provide proof of US citizenship and 90 days worth of bank statements or utility bills proving the same address.A green card holder in order to buy even a non-assault weapon, in addition to DL and car registration needs to present the green card to prove legal residency (of the US,not the state) and 90 days worth of bank statementsor utility bills proving state residency and address. Now oddly enough, incase if green card holder wants to buy an assault weapon, the rules are...exactly the same as for the regular ones. But chances are that a random guy in the gun store will refuse to sell it to you saying that you have to be a US citizen to buy an assault weapon. You might have to take it to the manager and make him check the actual regulations and call the authorities if needed and they will figure it out. It's important to know the law and be sure of your rights and everything will be fine.

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    To get either a VA D/L OR a VA ID card, you need to establish a "legal presence"

    http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/ci...gal_presqa.asp

    Applicants for a DMV-issued identification card.
    Anyone applying for a DMV-issued identification card must show proof of legal presence. However, if the customer has permanent status in the U.S. and has once proven legal presence, he will not be required to submit proof of legal presence for subsequent ID card applications, unless the ID card expires. Also a customer who was born in 1937 or earlier will not be required to submit proof of legal presence with an ID card application if he has held a Virginia driver's license or ID card that is either valid or has been expired for five or fewer years. Proof of legal presence is required for persons who are temporarily authorized by the federal government to be present in the U.S.

    For a complete list of acceptable documents for proof of identity, residency and social security number, refer to the "Acceptable Documents for Obtaining a Driver's License or Photo ID Card" (DMV141).
    Legal presence may be proved using documents such as a U.S. birth certificate or U.S. passport. For individuals not U.S. born, legal presence can be proved using a variety of other documents, such as a Certificate of Citizenship or naturalization, Resident Alien Card, or a valid foreign passport with a visa and I-94.

    I recently went through this process to help my (adult) son get a VA ID card. He lost his wallet, which had his SS card in it. This process isn't pretty, but it works.



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    Bill in VA wrote:
    ODA 226 wrote:
    ... Most gun dealers will require TWO forms of valid Virginia ID or a valid Virginia car registration in order to buy a gun. If you want to buy an "assault weapon" better bring your passport because you now need to prove that you're a US citizen also. Two forms of Virginia ID WILL NOT SUFFICE!
    Nope. That'spatently incorrect.For one thing, it's not that "most gun dealers" require two forms of ID; it's federal law. Federal law requires two forms of ID to purchase a firearm from an FFL: a government-issued photo ID, and a second form showing the same address. Moreover, 27CFR 478.11 and 478.124(c) state that any government-issued photo ID will suffice. To whit, 478.11 states an acceptable for of photo ID to beany photo IDwhich was made or issued by or under the authority of the United States Government, a State, political subdivision of a State, a foreign government, political subdivision of a foreign government, an international governmental or an international quasi-governmental organization which, when completed with information concerning a particular individual, is of a type intended or commonly accepted for the purpose of identification of individuals. In addition, there is no prohbition on a foreign national owning/buying/possessing an "assualt weapon", nor is there anything that prohibits the use of Virginia state-issued ID opr the proof of US citizenship to purchase one. (In fact, short of a passport,birth certificate, ornaturalization papersI'm not sure how one would go about proving US citizenship, and of those, only the passport has a photograph.) Regardless, the afore-mentioned passage by itself ought to be enough to refute your statement but if not see 18USC CH44 921 as well as922(b)(3), 922(d)(5)(A) and (B), and 922(g)(5)(A) and (B). See also Section 5 ("Sales to Aliens in the United States") in chapter IV,part B of the Federal Firearms Regulations and Reference Guide (ATF Publication 5300.4) Section 5 reads:

    In order to purchase firearms in the United States from a Federal firearms licensee, an alien must:

    (1) Be 18 years of age (21 for

    handguns);

    (2) Provide the licensee with a

    government-issued photo identification

    document;

    (3) Complete ATF Form 4473,

    Firearms Transaction Record;

    (4) Comply with the Brady law, 18

    U.S.C. 922(t);

    (5) Be a resident of the State in which the firearm purchase is made for a period of 90 continuous days before the transfer (if purchasing a long gun, the alien must establish 90-day continuous residency in any State) and substantiate residency by documentation (for example, utility bills or a lease agreement);

    (6) Not be an illegal or nonimmigrant alien (for exceptions to the nonimmigrant alien prohibition, see 18U.S.C. 922(y)(2) and (3)) ; and

    (7) Not be a felon or within any other category of prohibited person.

    HTH
    Bill, you're not 100% correct. Virginiacode has some stricter requirements than the fed code.I have cut and pasted the relevant page from the VSP website.



    Virginia Firearms Transaction Program

    Virginia’s approach to firearms records checks does not infringe on an individual’s ability to purchase or possess a firearm, while those individuals who are prohibited by State or Federal law are denied legal access to firearms.



    The Virginia Department of State Police developed and administers the Virginia Firearms Transaction Program© (VFTP). This program became operational on November 1, 1989, and provides for a timely, point-of-sale, approval or disapproval decision regarding the sale or transfer of all firearms (except antiques) based upon the results of a criminal history record information (CHRI) check concerning the prospective purchaser pursuant to §18.2-308.2:2 of the Code of Virginia.

    This program was the first of its type in the nation. Virginia was able to implement this program because the Central Criminal Records Exchange (CCRE) maintained by the Virginia State Police is one of the most complete records repositories in the nation and provides the database for the VFTP.

    The VFTP authorizes properly licensed and registered firearms dealers to request criminal history record information (CHRI) checks on prospective purchasers via easy Internet access (VCheck) to the State Police firearms transaction system. VCheck is available between the hours of 8 AM and 10 PM, seven days a week, and including holidays, except December 25. An 800-telephone line is utilized as an alternate method of contacting the FTC should the dealer lose Internet connection or experience problems with his or her computer.

    Firearms dealers must complete form SP-69 to register with the VFTP. This form can be viewed, downloaded and/or printed by visiting the Virginia State Police Forms page.

    Virginia Code §18.2-308.2:3 requires a criminal history background check be performed for employees of a gun dealer to transfer firearms, whether full-time, part-time, permanent, temporary, paid or unpaid. Any person who sells firearms at a licensed dealership or gun show must submit to a national and state criminal history records check by the Department of State Police and Federal Bureau of Investigation. Firearm sellers must complete form SP-69A and submit a completed fingerprint card to the Firearms Transaction Center. SP-69A forms and fingerprint cards may be obtained by calling the Firearms Transaction Center (FTC) Help Desk at (804) 674-2292. In lieu of submitting fingerprints, any dealer holding a valid federal firearms license (FFL) issued by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) may submit a sworn and notarized affidavit to the Department of State Police on form SP-69B stating that the dealer has been subjected to a record check prior to the issuance and that the FFL was issued by the ATF. The affidavit may also contain the names of any employees that have been subjected to a record check and approved by the ATF. An SP-69B form may be obtained by calling the FTC Help Desk. This exemption shall apply regardless of whether the FFL was issued in the name of the dealer or in the name of the business.

    The purchaser’s name and certain personal descriptive data are immediately entered into a computer system at the dealer location or while the dealer remains on the telephone with the FTC. On the average it takes two minutes to provide a firearms dealer with an approval/disapproval decision. The design of this program eliminates traditional waiting periods by electronically accessing criminal records and "wanted" databases at the National Crime Information Center (NCIC) and the Virginia Criminal Records Exchange (CCRE) and provides an instantaneous approval or disapproval decision to the firearms dealer concerning the firearms sale or transfer.

    The National Instant Background System (NICS) was implemented effective November 30, 1998, under the permanent provisions of the federal Brady Law. Due to the requirement of Virginia Code Section 18.2-308.2:2 for all Virginia firearm dealers to contact this Department to receive an instant criminal background check prior to the transfer of a firearm, Virginia decided to act as the point of contact for the NICS check. Therefore, the Virginia Firearms Transaction Program was modified to interface with the NICS.

    National and state databases are accessed simultaneously at the time of transaction. Four are maintained by the Virginia Department of State Police, accessible by the Virginia Criminal Information Network (VCIN): Virginia’s wanted and missing persons files and protective orders, Virginia’s criminal history record files, a calendar file on handgun purchases required to monitor and enforce lawful handgun limitations and Virginia’s database of adjudications of legal incompetence and incapacity, and involuntary commitments to mental institutions for inpatient or outpatient treatment.

    The fifth database accessed during this check is the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) which searches the National Crime Information Center (NCIC) consisting of the Wanted Persons File, Protection Order File, Interstate Identification Index (III), Deported Felons File, US Secret Service Protective File, Foreign Fugitive File, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms’ Violent Felon File, and NICS indexes: Illegal/Unlawful Aliens File, Mental Defectives/Commitments File, Dishonorable Discharges, Citizenship Renunciants, Controlled Substance Abuse File and Denied Persons File.

    If an identification is not made in one or more of these files, the computer responds "YES THE TRANSFER IS APPROVED" and a unique computer-generated approval number is provided to the firearms dealer for the transaction. The firearm may be transferred upon the dealer's receipt of the approval number. If an identification is made, the computer responds "NO, NOT APPROVED AT THIS TIME" and review of the information/record is required to determine identification and lawful eligibility of the prospective firearms purchaser. The firearms dealer is notified immediately upon a final determination of eligibility.

    A prospective firearms purchaser must provide written consent permitting the firearms dealer to initiate a CHRI check to determine if the purchaser is eligible to purchase or possess a firearm. It is unlawful for any person to willfully and intentionally make a false statement on the required consent form. Firearms dealers are required by law to collect a fee of $2.00 from Virginia residents for every transaction which requires a criminal history record information (CHRI) check and a fee of $5.00 from non-Virginia residents. These fees are sent to the State Police to offset the cost of conducting the record checks.

    At no time is criminal history information released to the firearms dealer or any other individual contacting the Firearms Transaction Center by telephone.

    Identification and Residency Requirements

    A primary and secondary form of identification must be presented to the firearms dealer at the time of purchase of any firearm except an antique weapon, or replica of an antique weapon.

    Primary Identification

    The primary form of ID shall consist of a valid photo-ID form issued by a governmental agency of the Commonwealth or of the prospective purchaser or transferee’s home state that denotes the individual’s name, race, sex, address, and date of birth. Where the primary form is a photo-ID issued by the Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV), the dealer shall not transfer a firearm to the prospective purchaser until 30-days after the date of issue of an original or duplicate driver's license unless a copy of his/her DMV driver's record is presented showing that the original date of issue was more than 30-days prior to the attempted purchase.

    The primary form of ID for a non-Virginia resident, for the purchase of a rifle or shotgun, must consist of a valid photo-ID issued by a governmental agency of the prospective purchaser’s home state that denote the purchaser’s name, race, sex, date of birth and address. Federal law prohibits the sale or transfer of a handgun to a nonresident of the state in which the handgun is being purchased.

    A social security card IS NOT an acceptable form of identification.

    A birth certificate IS NOT an acceptable form of identification.

    Effective January 1, 2004, DMV will not issue an original license, permit, or ID card to any applicant who has not presented evidence that he/she is a citizen of the United States, a legal permanent resident, or an authorized temporary resident alien of the United States. In the instance of temporary residence, the DMV document will only be valid during the period of authorized stay in the United States.

    Secondary Identification

    The secondary form of identification, for Virginia residents and residents of other states, must show an address identical to that shown on the primary form of identification. Some acceptable forms of secondary ID are:

    • a current lease,
    • evidence of currently paid personal property tax or real estate tax,
    • a current utility or telephone bill,
    • a current voter registration card,
    • a current bank check,
    • a current passport,
    • a current automobile registration and
    • current hunting or fishing license.

    Transfer of an Assault Firearm

    Proof of citizenship, or of lawful admission for a permanent residence, must be established prior to the purchase of an "assault firearm." An assault firearm is defined as any semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of offence with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock.

    One of the following forms of proof of citizenship or lawful residence, pursuant to §18.2-308.2 must be presented to purchase an assault firearm:

    • a certified birth certificate or certificate of birth abroad issued by the US State Department,
    • an un-expired US Passport,
    • a U. S. citizen identification card,
    • a current voter registration card,
    • a current selective service registration card,
    • an immigrant or registration card issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, and
    • a certificate of citizenship or a certificate of naturalization issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service.

    Military Personnel

    Active military personnel permanently stationed in Virginia are treated as Virginia residents for the purchase of a handgun. Identification and residency are established by the following:

    A military photo-identification card issued by the United States Department of Defense and proof that Virginia is the permanent duty station via current military assignment orders is acceptable identification and residency documentation to establish military personnel as residents of Virginia.

    If permanently assigned to a mobile unit in Virginia, and the homeport is listed as Virginia; the transaction may be processed as a Virginia resident the same as any other permanent military assignment to Virginia supported by military assignment orders. The individual is treated as a non-Virginia resident if the homeport is listed as any place other than Virginia.

    Individuals retired from military service are subject to the same identification and residency requirements as any other person wishing to purchase a firearm; i.e., a primary and secondary form of ID.

    Law Enforcement Officers

    Due to the Omnibus Consolidated Appropriations Act of 1997, the Federal Gun Control Act was amended effective September 30, 1996; to make it unlawful for any person convicted of a "misdemeanor crime of domestic violence" to ship, transport, possess or receive firearms or ammunition. It also makes it unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of a firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that the recipient has been convicted of such a misdemeanor.

    State and federal law enforcement officers must meet primary and secondary ID requirements, and must consent to a CHRI check for the purchase of a firearm by completion of form SP-65.

    Law enforcement officers are not subject to Virginia’s handgun purchase restriction.

    Lawful Alien Status

    Federal law requires a transferee (buyer) who is not a citizen of the United States to provide additional identification in order to establish that he or she is a resident of a State. Such a transferee must provide a valid government-issued photo-identification to the seller that contains the buyer’s name, date of birth, and residence address. The Alien Resident identification number or INS Admission Number must be recorded on the Virginia Firearms Transaction Record (SP-65) form. In addition, such a transferee must provide documentation such as a utility bill or lease agreement that would establish that he or she has resided for at least 90 days prior to the date of this sale.

    Nonimmigrant Status

    On October 22, 1998, as part of the Omnibus Consolidated Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act of 1999, Pub. L. 105-277, Congress amended the Gun Control Act by creating, with certain exceptions, a new category of persons prohibited from shipping, transporting, receiving, and possessing firearms: any alien "who has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa." This prohibition applies to "any alien in the United States in a nonimmigrant status." There are exceptions to the nonimmigrant alien provision. A nonimmigrant alien is not prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or possessing a firearm if the alien: (1) is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States; (2) is an official representative of a foreign government who is accredited to the United States Government or their Government's mission to an international organization having its headquarters in the United States; or (3) has received a waiver from the prohibition form the Attorney General of the United States.

    There also is a process for nonimmigrant aliens to petition the Justice Department to waive the prohibition. Individuals should contact the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms if you have questions about the prohibition, its exceptions, or the waiver process.

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    Bill in VA wrote:
    67GT390FB wrote:
    Bill, you're not 100% correct. Virginiacode has some stricter requirements than the fed code.I have cut and pasted the relevant page from the VSP website.
    How so? Nothing I've posted contradicts VA Code. A resident alien can purchase/own/possess an "assault weapon", and while federal law states that any form of government-issued photo-ID is acceptable proof of ID. VA Code says pretty much theh same thing: § 18.2-308.2:2(B) To establish personal identification and residence in Virginia for purposes of this section, a dealer must require any prospective purchaser to present one photo-identification form issued by a governmental agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense, and other documentation of residence. Except where the photo-identification was issued by the United States Department of Defense, the other documentation of residence shall show an address identical to that shown on the photo-identification form, such as evidence of currently paid personal property tax or real estate tax, or a current (a) lease, (b) utility or telephone bill, (c) voter registration card, (d) bank check, (e) passport, (f) automobile registration, or (g) hunting or fishing license; other current identification allowed as evidence of residency by Part 178.124* of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations and ATF Ruling 2001-5; or other documentation of residence determined to be acceptable by the Department of Criminal Justice Services, that corroborates that the prospective purchaser currently resides in Virginia.e.

    * Note that 27CFR 178 was reorganized and is now 27CFR 478

    You still have to provide at least two forms of ID, one with a photo, and bothmust showproof of residence and show the same residence. Obviously, the easiest way is witha driver's license/DMV ID card and a bank check/vehicle registration/hunting or fishing license.
    this part:

    "Proof of citizenship, or of lawful admission for a permanent residence, must be established prior to the purchase of an "assault firearm." An assault firearm is defined as any semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of offence with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock.

    One of the following forms of proof of citizenship or lawful residence, pursuant to §18.2-308.2 must be presented to purchase an assault firearm:


    • a certified birth certificate or certificate of birth abroad issued by the US State Department,
    • an un-expired US Passport,
    • a U. S. citizen identification card,
    • a current voter registration card,
    • a current selective service registration card,
    • an immigrant or registration card issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, and
    • a certificate of citizenship or a certificate of naturalization issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service. "

    "

    The second form of Id can not just be one that has the same address as the photo id, it has to be one of the mentioned 7 forms of id (for an assualt rifle only, of course)

    A vehicle registraion can not be used as the second form of id for an "assault weapon" in Va.

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    mkl wrote:
    Bill in VA wrote:
    67GT390FB wrote:
    Bill, you're not 100% correct. Virginiacode has some stricter requirements than the fed code.I have cut and pasted the relevant page from the VSP website.
    How so? Nothing I've posted contradicts VA Code. A resident alien can purchase/own/possess an "assault weapon", and while federal law states that any form of government-issued photo-ID is acceptable proof of ID. VA Code says pretty much theh same thing: § 18.2-308.2:2(B) To establish personal identification and residence in Virginia for purposes of this section, a dealer must require any prospective purchaser to present one photo-identification form issued by a governmental agency of the Commonwealth or by the United States Department of Defense, and other documentation of residence. Except where the photo-identification was issued by the United States Department of Defense, the other documentation of residence shall show an address identical to that shown on the photo-identification form, such as evidence of currently paid personal property tax or real estate tax, or a current (a) lease, (b) utility or telephone bill, (c) voter registration card, (d) bank check, (e) passport, (f) automobile registration, or (g) hunting or fishing license; other current identification allowed as evidence of residency by Part 178.124* of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations and ATF Ruling 2001-5; or other documentation of residence determined to be acceptable by the Department of Criminal Justice Services, that corroborates that the prospective purchaser currently resides in Virginia.e.

    * Note that 27CFR 178 was reorganized and is now 27CFR 478

    You still have to provide at least two forms of ID, one with a photo, and bothmust showproof of residence and show the same residence. Obviously, the easiest way is witha driver's license/DMV ID card and a bank check/vehicle registration/hunting or fishing license.
    this part:

    "Proof of citizenship, or of lawful admission for a permanent residence, must be established prior to the purchase of an "assault firearm." An assault firearm is defined as any semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of offence with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock.

    One of the following forms of proof of citizenship or lawful residence, pursuant to §18.2-308.2 must be presented to purchase an assault firearm:


    • a certified birth certificate or certificate of birth abroad issued by the US State Department,
    • an un-expired US Passport,
    • a U. S. citizen identification card,
    • a current voter registration card,
    • a current selective service registration card,
    • an immigrant or registration card issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, and
    • a certificate of citizenship or a certificate of naturalization issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service. "
    "

    The second form of Id can not just be one that has the same address as the photo id, it has to be one of the mentioned 7 forms of id (for an assualt rifle only, of course)

    A vehicle registraion can not be used as the second form of id for an "assault weapon" in Va.
    thank you, mkl.

    to purchase an "assault weapon" in VA you could potentially need three forms of id depending on which forms of id you choose or have available to make your purchase. for example if you are born outside of VA and you bring your birth certifiate with you to prove citizenship you would have to provide both a primary and secondary id proving you are a VA resident in addition to having your birth certificateprooving your citizenship.

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    ODA 226 wrote:
    Not necessarily. Do you pay in-state or out-of-state tuition? If you have a job (part-time or other) do you pay Virginia state taxes on your earnings? Have you declared Virginia as your PERMENENT home of record?

    If you pay out-of-state tuition, you are NOT a Virginia resident. If you don't pay Virginia State Income Tax, you are NOT a resident. If you haven't declared permentant residency in Virginia, you are NOT a Virginia resident.

    If you are NOT a legal resident of Virginia and try to purchase a gun at a licensed gun shop in Virginia, you have committed a federal AND a state crime punishable under state and federal law.

    If you can't establish LEGAL residency in Virginia and want to purchase a gun, I suggest that you buy one privately through the Tidewater Trading Post, but even then, many private sellers will want to see VALID Virginia ID before selling to you.
    Like Bill said, the ATF doesn't see it this way - they actually specifically mention college students in ruling 80-21. So I know I am eligible to purchase handguns here, but i'm guessing that gun dealers aren't going to take my student ID and a copy of the ATF ruling and let me purchase a handgun, so I would need to get a VA ID.

    I've got all the documentation they want, but they're just being stingy about the no other DL thing.

    I do appreciate all the responses.

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    67GT390FB wrote:
    Bill in VA wrote:
    ODA 226 wrote:
    ... Most gun dealers will require TWO forms of valid Virginia ID or a valid Virginia car registration in order to buy a gun. If you want to buy an "assault weapon" better bring your passport because you now need to prove that you're a US citizen also. Two forms of Virginia ID WILL NOT SUFFICE!
    Nope. That'spatently incorrect.For one thing, it's not that "most gun dealers" require two forms of ID; it's federal law. Federal law requires two forms of ID to purchase a firearm from an FFL: a government-issued photo ID, and a second form showing the same address. Moreover, 27CFR 478.11 and 478.124(c) state that any government-issued photo ID will suffice. To whit, 478.11 states an acceptable for of photo ID to beany photo IDwhich was made or issued by or under the authority of the United States Government, a State, political subdivision of a State, a foreign government, political subdivision of a foreign government, an international governmental or an international quasi-governmental organization which, when completed with information concerning a particular individual, is of a type intended or commonly accepted for the purpose of identification of individuals. In addition, there is no prohbition on a foreign national owning/buying/possessing an "assualt weapon", nor is there anything that prohibits the use of Virginia state-issued ID opr the proof of US citizenship to purchase one. (In fact, short of a passport,birth certificate, ornaturalization papersI'm not sure how one would go about proving US citizenship, and of those, only the passport has a photograph.) Regardless, the afore-mentioned passage by itself ought to be enough to refute your statement but if not see 18USC CH44 921 as well as922(b)(3), 922(d)(5)(A) and (B), and 922(g)(5)(A) and (B). See also Section 5 ("Sales to Aliens in the United States") in chapter IV,part B of the Federal Firearms Regulations and Reference Guide (ATF Publication 5300.4) Section 5 reads:

    In order to purchase firearms in the United States from a Federal firearms licensee, an alien must:

    (1) Be 18 years of age (21 for

    handguns);

    (2) Provide the licensee with a

    government-issued photo identification

    document;

    (3) Complete ATF Form 4473,

    Firearms Transaction Record;

    (4) Comply with the Brady law, 18

    U.S.C. 922(t);

    (5) Be a resident of the State in which the firearm purchase is made for a period of 90 continuous days before the transfer (if purchasing a long gun, the alien must establish 90-day continuous residency in any State) and substantiate residency by documentation (for example, utility bills or a lease agreement);

    (6) Not be an illegal or nonimmigrant alien (for exceptions to the nonimmigrant alien prohibition, see 18U.S.C. 922(y)(2) and (3)) ; and

    (7) Not be a felon or within any other category of prohibited person.

    HTH
    Bill, you're not 100% correct. Virginiacode has some stricter requirements than the fed code.I have cut and pasted the relevant page from the VSP website.



    Virginia Firearms Transaction Program

    Virginia’s approach to firearms records checks does not infringe on an individual’s ability to purchase or possess a firearm, while those individuals who are prohibited by State or Federal law are denied legal access to firearms.



    The Virginia Department of State Police developed and administers the Virginia Firearms Transaction Program© (VFTP). This program became operational on November 1, 1989, and provides for a timely, point-of-sale, approval or disapproval decision regarding the sale or transfer of all firearms (except antiques) based upon the results of a criminal history record information (CHRI) check concerning the prospective purchaser pursuant to §18.2-308.2:2 of the Code of Virginia.

    This program was the first of its type in the nation. Virginia was able to implement this program because the Central Criminal Records Exchange (CCRE) maintained by the Virginia State Police is one of the most complete records repositories in the nation and provides the database for the VFTP.

    The VFTP authorizes properly licensed and registered firearms dealers to request criminal history record information (CHRI) checks on prospective purchasers via easy Internet access (VCheck) to the State Police firearms transaction system. VCheck is available between the hours of 8 AM and 10 PM, seven days a week, and including holidays, except December 25. An 800-telephone line is utilized as an alternate method of contacting the FTC should the dealer lose Internet connection or experience problems with his or her computer.

    Firearms dealers must complete form SP-69 to register with the VFTP. This form can be viewed, downloaded and/or printed by visiting the Virginia State Police Forms page.

    Virginia Code §18.2-308.2:3 requires a criminal history background check be performed for employees of a gun dealer to transfer firearms, whether full-time, part-time, permanent, temporary, paid or unpaid. Any person who sells firearms at a licensed dealership or gun show must submit to a national and state criminal history records check by the Department of State Police and Federal Bureau of Investigation. Firearm sellers must complete form SP-69A and submit a completed fingerprint card to the Firearms Transaction Center. SP-69A forms and fingerprint cards may be obtained by calling the Firearms Transaction Center (FTC) Help Desk at (804) 674-2292. In lieu of submitting fingerprints, any dealer holding a valid federal firearms license (FFL) issued by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) may submit a sworn and notarized affidavit to the Department of State Police on form SP-69B stating that the dealer has been subjected to a record check prior to the issuance and that the FFL was issued by the ATF. The affidavit may also contain the names of any employees that have been subjected to a record check and approved by the ATF. An SP-69B form may be obtained by calling the FTC Help Desk. This exemption shall apply regardless of whether the FFL was issued in the name of the dealer or in the name of the business.

    The purchaser’s name and certain personal descriptive data are immediately entered into a computer system at the dealer location or while the dealer remains on the telephone with the FTC. On the average it takes two minutes to provide a firearms dealer with an approval/disapproval decision. The design of this program eliminates traditional waiting periods by electronically accessing criminal records and "wanted" databases at the National Crime Information Center (NCIC) and the Virginia Criminal Records Exchange (CCRE) and provides an instantaneous approval or disapproval decision to the firearms dealer concerning the firearms sale or transfer.

    The National Instant Background System (NICS) was implemented effective November 30, 1998, under the permanent provisions of the federal Brady Law. Due to the requirement of Virginia Code Section 18.2-308.2:2 for all Virginia firearm dealers to contact this Department to receive an instant criminal background check prior to the transfer of a firearm, Virginia decided to act as the point of contact for the NICS check. Therefore, the Virginia Firearms Transaction Program was modified to interface with the NICS.

    National and state databases are accessed simultaneously at the time of transaction. Four are maintained by the Virginia Department of State Police, accessible by the Virginia Criminal Information Network (VCIN): Virginia’s wanted and missing persons files and protective orders, Virginia’s criminal history record files, a calendar file on handgun purchases required to monitor and enforce lawful handgun limitations and Virginia’s database of adjudications of legal incompetence and incapacity, and involuntary commitments to mental institutions for inpatient or outpatient treatment.

    The fifth database accessed during this check is the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) which searches the National Crime Information Center (NCIC) consisting of the Wanted Persons File, Protection Order File, Interstate Identification Index (III), Deported Felons File, US Secret Service Protective File, Foreign Fugitive File, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms’ Violent Felon File, and NICS indexes: Illegal/Unlawful Aliens File, Mental Defectives/Commitments File, Dishonorable Discharges, Citizenship Renunciants, Controlled Substance Abuse File and Denied Persons File.

    If an identification is not made in one or more of these files, the computer responds "YES THE TRANSFER IS APPROVED" and a unique computer-generated approval number is provided to the firearms dealer for the transaction. The firearm may be transferred upon the dealer's receipt of the approval number. If an identification is made, the computer responds "NO, NOT APPROVED AT THIS TIME" and review of the information/record is required to determine identification and lawful eligibility of the prospective firearms purchaser. The firearms dealer is notified immediately upon a final determination of eligibility.

    A prospective firearms purchaser must provide written consent permitting the firearms dealer to initiate a CHRI check to determine if the purchaser is eligible to purchase or possess a firearm. It is unlawful for any person to willfully and intentionally make a false statement on the required consent form. Firearms dealers are required by law to collect a fee of $2.00 from Virginia residents for every transaction which requires a criminal history record information (CHRI) check and a fee of $5.00 from non-Virginia residents. These fees are sent to the State Police to offset the cost of conducting the record checks.

    At no time is criminal history information released to the firearms dealer or any other individual contacting the Firearms Transaction Center by telephone.

    Identification and Residency Requirements

    A primary and secondary form of identification must be presented to the firearms dealer at the time of purchase of any firearm except an antique weapon, or replica of an antique weapon.

    Primary Identification

    The primary form of ID shall consist of a valid photo-ID form issued by a governmental agency of the Commonwealth or of the prospective purchaser or transferee’s home state that denotes the individual’s name, race, sex, address, and date of birth. Where the primary form is a photo-ID issued by the Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV), the dealer shall not transfer a firearm to the prospective purchaser until 30-days after the date of issue of an original or duplicate driver's license unless a copy of his/her DMV driver's record is presented showing that the original date of issue was more than 30-days prior to the attempted purchase.

    The primary form of ID for a non-Virginia resident, for the purchase of a rifle or shotgun, must consist of a valid photo-ID issued by a governmental agency of the prospective purchaser’s home state that denote the purchaser’s name, race, sex, date of birth and address. Federal law prohibits the sale or transfer of a handgun to a nonresident of the state in which the handgun is being purchased.

    A social security card IS NOT an acceptable form of identification.

    A birth certificate IS NOT an acceptable form of identification.

    Effective January 1, 2004, DMV will not issue an original license, permit, or ID card to any applicant who has not presented evidence that he/she is a citizen of the United States, a legal permanent resident, or an authorized temporary resident alien of the United States. In the instance of temporary residence, the DMV document will only be valid during the period of authorized stay in the United States.

    Secondary Identification

    The secondary form of identification, for Virginia residents and residents of other states, must show an address identical to that shown on the primary form of identification. Some acceptable forms of secondary ID are:

    • a current lease,
    • evidence of currently paid personal property tax or real estate tax,
    • a current utility or telephone bill,
    • a current voter registration card,
    • a current bank check,
    • a current passport,
    • a current automobile registration and
    • current hunting or fishing license.
    Transfer of an Assault Firearm

    Proof of citizenship, or of lawful admission for a permanent residence, must be established prior to the purchase of an "assault firearm." An assault firearm is defined as any semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of offence with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock.

    One of the following forms of proof of citizenship or lawful residence, pursuant to §18.2-308.2 must be presented to purchase an assault firearm:

    • a certified birth certificate or certificate of birth abroad issued by the US State Department,
    • an un-expired US Passport,
    • a U. S. citizen identification card,
    • a current voter registration card,
    • a current selective service registration card,
    • an immigrant or registration card issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, and
    • a certificate of citizenship or a certificate of naturalization issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service.
    Military Personnel

    Active military personnel permanently stationed in Virginia are treated as Virginia residents for the purchase of a handgun. Identification and residency are established by the following:

    A military photo-identification card issued by the United States Department of Defense and proof that Virginia is the permanent duty station via current military assignment orders is acceptable identification and residency documentation to establish military personnel as residents of Virginia.

    If permanently assigned to a mobile unit in Virginia, and the homeport is listed as Virginia; the transaction may be processed as a Virginia resident the same as any other permanent military assignment to Virginia supported by military assignment orders. The individual is treated as a non-Virginia resident if the homeport is listed as any place other than Virginia.

    Individuals retired from military service are subject to the same identification and residency requirements as any other person wishing to purchase a firearm; i.e., a primary and secondary form of ID.

    Law Enforcement Officers

    Due to the Omnibus Consolidated Appropriations Act of 1997, the Federal Gun Control Act was amended effective September 30, 1996; to make it unlawful for any person convicted of a "misdemeanor crime of domestic violence" to ship, transport, possess or receive firearms or ammunition. It also makes it unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of a firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that the recipient has been convicted of such a misdemeanor.

    State and federal law enforcement officers must meet primary and secondary ID requirements, and must consent to a CHRI check for the purchase of a firearm by completion of form SP-65.

    Law enforcement officers are not subject to Virginia’s handgun purchase restriction.

    Lawful Alien Status

    Federal law requires a transferee (buyer) who is not a citizen of the United States to provide additional identification in order to establish that he or she is a resident of a State. Such a transferee must provide a valid government-issued photo-identification to the seller that contains the buyer’s name, date of birth, and residence address. The Alien Resident identification number or INS Admission Number must be recorded on the Virginia Firearms Transaction Record (SP-65) form. In addition, such a transferee must provide documentation such as a utility bill or lease agreement that would establish that he or she has resided for at least 90 days prior to the date of this sale.

    Nonimmigrant Status

    On October 22, 1998, as part of the Omnibus Consolidated Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act of 1999, Pub. L. 105-277, Congress amended the Gun Control Act by creating, with certain exceptions, a new category of persons prohibited from shipping, transporting, receiving, and possessing firearms: any alien "who has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa." This prohibition applies to "any alien in the United States in a nonimmigrant status." There are exceptions to the nonimmigrant alien provision. A nonimmigrant alien is not prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or possessing a firearm if the alien: (1) is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States; (2) is an official representative of a foreign government who is accredited to the United States Government or their Government's mission to an international organization having its headquarters in the United States; or (3) has received a waiver from the prohibition form the Attorney General of the United States.

    There also is a process for nonimmigrant aliens to petition the Justice Department to waive the prohibition. Individuals should contact the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms if you have questions about the prohibition, its exceptions, or the waiver process.
    Welcome to REAL ID. All of this crap to buy a gun. Seems pretty infringed to me.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  21. #21
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    Bill in VA wrote:
    mkl, that still does not say anywhere in it that a non-US citizen cannot purchase an assualt weapon. Moreover, if we're going to parse words on whether or not I said what type of ID a non-US citizen must show to purchase an assault weapon I'll state for the record that I did not, nor did I say that a non-US citizen could usea vehicle registration to purchase an assault weapon. I'll admit though that going back to re-read myfollow-up statement posted Wed Oct 15th, 2008 01:55 pm a part of that one post mightappear to read that I state a vehicle registration is acceptable ID for a non-US citizen purchasing an assault weapon, it was not my intent to sound like I was. Up to that point when I crossed two separate thoughts in my haste to respond (non-citizens buying assault weapons and acceptable forms of ID for purchasing a firearm) I';ll stand by what I wrote as correct.

    ODA226 said, "Most gun dealers will require TWO forms of valid Virginia ID or a valid Virginia car registration in order to buy a gun" I said that this is incorrect; it's not a dealer requirement, it's the law...a legal requirement.

    ODA226 said, "If you want to buy an "assault weapon" better bring your passport because you now need to prove that you're a US citizen also." I said this is incorrect too, because a non-US citizen may lawfully purchase a assault weapon, both under federal and VA state law.

    ODA226 also said, "Two forms of Virginia ID WILL NOT SUFFICE!" in reference to buying an assault weapon. Again, as I said, this is not correct, Both VA and federal law allow the use of other-than-VA/state-issued ID. We've established these to be true.

    ODA226 said an out of state resident could not purcahse a firearm when he wrote, "If you are NOT a legal resident of Virginia and try to purchase a gun at a licensed gun shop in Virginia, you have committed a federal AND a state crime punishable under state and federal law." He alsowrote that one could not claim VA residence unless one paid VA state income tax or "declared permamenent residencey in Virginia."I said this is incorrect and again, gave the citation.

    67GT390FB wrote, "Bill, you're not 100% correct. Virginiacode has some stricter requirements than the fed code.I have cut and pasted the relevant page from the VSP website." I wrote that nothing I said above was contradicted by VA Code: you can buy a firearm from VA if you're not a VA resident (longguns anyways); you can have residency in multiple states simply by maintaining a residence there and residing in that residence; a legal resident alien non-US citizencan purchase a firearm (as well asan "assault weapon" type of firearm); a firearm and "assault weapon" can be purchased using something other than state/DMV-issued ID (and let's not forget that there's no photo on an FFL...certainly no one will dispute the legality of an FFL-holder acquiring using nothing but a signed copy of the FFL.)

    With all due respect Bill, you are incorrect here. Please read all current statutes that were posted here becauseVirginia State Firearms Statutes are more stringent than Federal law. This is a sad state of affairs, but it is true.

    Since, Icarus is an out-of-state resident, it is better to err on the side of caution to avoid any legal "misunderstandings".

    If Icarus was in the Tidewater area, I could take him to ANY major gun store and I guarantee you that NONE of them would sell him a firearm with the ID that he currently has or with only a Virginia ID card.

    No one will sell you an "assualt weapon" (Damn I hate that term!) without a valid passport, a teste copy of your birth certificate, or a current Virginia issued Voters Card. You'll need one of those PLUS 2 forms of Virginia ID.

    I was not able to purchase a cherrySOCOM 16recently because the only form of ID I had was my Va. DL, Va. Car Registration (**Both MUST have the same address!**) DoD Contractor CaC Card, Virginia CHP, New Hampshire CHPand aDoD TS-SCI Badge!

    The dealer told me that in addition to all this, I needed to have a valid passport, certified birth certificate or voter registration card. I thought his was BS and called my friend that works at A&P ArmsLynnhaven and he told me that he couldn't sell a SOCOM 16 to me unless I had a valid passport etc.

    We could argue all day about this issue, but I think we both will agree that this system is fundamentally wrong and creates a burden to the gun enthusiast.

    Cheers!



    Bitka Sve Reava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

  22. #22
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    The federal government has repeatedly stated that a person can have dual state residency, and that a person is a resident of a state while that person is actually residing in the state. I.e., Mr Smith owns a home in Michigan and another in Florida. When he's actually living in his Florida home he is in fact a resident of Florida, and vice-versa for Michigan and his time there. Such residency is acceptable for a a firearms' purchase. 27CFR 478.11 says exactly this. Additionally, a resident of one stae may lawfully purchase a long gun from either an FFL or a resident of another state provided that such sale is lawful in both states. Handguns, however,must go to an FFL within the buyer's home state and then be transferred from the FFL to the buyer/end user. (By the wayto suggest an out-of-state resident use a local trader's paper to circumvent federal and state law counts as conspiracy. See 18USC CH19.)

    HTH
    Bill,

    I understand what you are saying about long guns and you are absolutely correct. I was refering to handguns as I assumed that is what Icarus wanted to buy because if it is legal to purchase in both states it is not an issue.

    Icarus does not own real property inVirginia and therefore does not qualify as a Virginia resident.
    Bitka Sve Reava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

  23. #23
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    ODA 226 wrote:
    The federal government has repeatedly stated that a person can have dual state residency, and that a person is a resident of a state while that person is actually residing in the state. I.e., Mr Smith owns a home in Michigan and another in Florida. When he's actually living in his Florida home he is in fact a resident of Florida, and vice-versa for Michigan and his time there. Such residency is acceptable for a a firearms' purchase. 27CFR 478.11 says exactly this. Additionally, a resident of one stae may lawfully purchase a long gun from either an FFL or a resident of another state provided that such sale is lawful in both states. Handguns, however,must go to an FFL within the buyer's home state and then be transferred from the FFL to the buyer/end user. (By the wayto suggest an out-of-state resident use a local trader's paper to circumvent federal and state law counts as conspiracy. See 18USC CH19.)

    HTH
    Bill,

    I understand what you are saying about long guns and you are absolutely correct. I was refering to handguns as I assumed that is what Icarus wanted to buy because if it is legal to purchase in both states it is not an issue.

    Icarus does not own real property inVirginia and therefore does not qualify as a Virginia resident.
    oda,

    i'll agree with you about the VA stds for the purchase of an "asault weapon" are more stringent than bill believes but i'll have to disagree with you about the residency issue.

    the fact that he doesn't own real property here has no bearing anddoes not disqualify him from being a resident. there are plenty of folks that rent their housing and don't own a vehicle thus owning no real property that are not denied the right to purchase a firearm.

    for example an 18 year old living at his/her parents home has a drivers license/voter card/selective service card/birth certificate/passport etc etc but owns no real property. do you believe that individual cannot buy a gun in VA?

    As a college student he is entitled to establish residency here and register to vote here instead of doing an absentee ballot from his home state.

  24. #24
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    67GT390FB wrote:
    ODA 226 wrote:
    The federal government has repeatedly stated that a person can have dual state residency, and that a person is a resident of a state while that person is actually residing in the state. I.e., Mr Smith owns a home in Michigan and another in Florida. When he's actually living in his Florida home he is in fact a resident of Florida, and vice-versa for Michigan and his time there. Such residency is acceptable for a a firearms' purchase. 27CFR 478.11 says exactly this. Additionally, a resident of one stae may lawfully purchase a long gun from either an FFL or a resident of another state provided that such sale is lawful in both states. Handguns, however,must go to an FFL within the buyer's home state and then be transferred from the FFL to the buyer/end user. (By the wayto suggest an out-of-state resident use a local trader's paper to circumvent federal and state law counts as conspiracy. See 18USC CH19.)

    HTH
    Bill,

    I understand what you are saying about long guns and you are absolutely correct. I was refering to handguns as I assumed that is what Icarus wanted to buy because if it is legal to purchase in both states it is not an issue.

    Icarus does not own real property inVirginia and therefore does not qualify as a Virginia resident.
    oda,

    i'll agree with you about the VA stds for the purchase of an "asault weapon" are more stringent than bill believes but i'll have to disagree with you about the residency issue.

    the fact that he doesn't own real property here has no bearing anddoes not disqualify him from being a resident. there are plenty of folks that rent their housing and don't own a vehicle thus owning no real property that are not denied the right to purchase a firearm.

    for example an 18 year old living at his/her parents home has a drivers license/voter card/selective service card/birth certificate/passport etc etc but owns no real property. do you believe that individual cannot buy a gun in VA?

    As a college student he is entitled to establish residency here and register to vote here instead of doing an absentee ballot from his home state.
    GT,

    If you are military with current orders assigning you to a base in Virginia OR if you own real estate in the Commonwealth, you can purchase a handgun. But I think we are getting a little off-track here.

    Icarus stated that he wanted to get a Virginia ID card to purchase firearms. The facts here are two-fold:

    1. You MUST be a legitimate Virginia resident to obtain a Virginia ID Card. There is no "wiggle" room here.

    2. Icarus DOES NOT meet this standard UNLESS he does establish permenant residency in the Commonwealth. He has NOT done this and therefore is NOT in compliance with Virginia state law regarding the purchase of handguns or "Assault weapons".

    So far, posted state codes support my argument.

    If anyone here can supply the state code showing conclusively that I'm incorrect here, I'll gladly stand-down and stand in the corner for an hour. But as of now, no one has supplied that information.


    Bitka Sve Reava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

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    ODA 226 wrote:
    Bill,

    I understand what you are saying about long guns and you are absolutely correct. I was refering to handguns as I assumed that is what Icarus wanted to buy because if it is legal to purchase in both states it is not an issue.

    Icarus does not own real property in*Virginia and therefore does not qualify as a Virginia resident.
    Being able to buy handguns here is the goal. If you don't mind me asking, how does actually owning property have anything to do with residency? I have a lease on an apartment here, as do I imagine millions of long-time VA residents.

    But don't you think I am covered by ATF ruling 80-21?
    “during the time the students actually reside in a college dormitory or at an off-campus location they are considered residents of the State where the dormitory or off-campus home is located. During the time out-of-State college students actually reside in their home State they are considered residents of their home State.”

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