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Thread: Justifiable homicides at highest in more than a decade, FBI USAToday.com

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    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...tifiable_N.htm

    [img]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/DOUGHU%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.jpg[/img]

    JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDES RISING
    By Kevin Johnson, USA TODAYThe number of justifiable homicides committed by police and private citizens has been rising in the past two years to their highest levels in more than a decade, reflecting a shoot-first philosophy in dealing with crime, say law enforcement analysts.The 391 killings by police that were ruled justifiable in 2007 were the most since 1994, FBI statistics show. The 254 killings by private individuals found to be self-defense were the most since 1997.

    The FBI says a homicide committed by a private citizen is justified when a person is slain during the commission of a felony, such as a burglary or robbery. Police are justified, the FBI says, when felons are killed while the officer is acting in the line of duty. Rulings on these deaths are usually made by the local police agencies involved.
    Some law enforcement analysts say the numbers represent changing attitudes on the streets, where police have felt more threatened by well-armed offenders, and citizens have taken greater responsibility for their own safety.

    Northeastern University criminal justice professor James Alan Fox describes an emerging "shoot-first" mentality by police and private citizens. For several years, police departments have armed their officers with higher-powered weapons to keep pace with criminal gangs. "Clearly there is a message out there that citizens may be able to defend themselves" as well, he says.

    Alfred Blumstein, a Carnegie Mellon University criminologist, says the gun "legalization movement" also may have helped create a "greater willingness" among citizens to act in self-defense.

    Forty-eight states provide various rights to carry firearms. Illinois and Wisconsin do not, according to the National Rifle Association. In a landmark decision, the Supreme Court in June carved out a right to individual gun ownership, ruling that the Second Amendment allows citizens to keep guns in their homes for self-defense.

    The NRA and other analysts say most laws allowing gun possession have existed for years and would not likely account for a recent spike in self-defense killings.

    Instead, Wayne LaPierre, the NRA's executive vice president and chief executive officer, says the Sept. 11 attacks and the widespread looting and violence after Hurricane Katrina spurred some people to take more responsibility for their own safety.

    Immediately after those events, LaPierre says the group's gun-safety trainers reported "big increases" in NRA-sponsored courses. "Americans are simply refusing to be victims," he says.

    Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck says the FBI underestimates self-defense killings by citizens because the ones that are not precipitated by felony crimes may not get counted. "Less than a third of (citizen killings) are reported," he says.


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    Northeastern University criminal justice professor James Alan Fox describes an emerging "shoot-first" mentality by police and private citizens.
    Yeah, isn't it justtoo bad for the criminals that people are getting a"Shoot First, Die Later" mentality?

    ...I wonder if Mr. Fox is the kinda guy that would rather someone be killed or raped than fight back?...
    ...Orygunner...



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    Since it show an increase both by LACs and LEOs, I'd say the most likely reason is a general rise in crime (or in this case, attempted crime).

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Orygunner wrote:
    ...I wonder if Mr. Fox is the kinda guy that would rather someone be killed or raped than fight back?...
    ...Orygunner...
    I forget where i read this but it pertained toa gun grabber's philosophy.

    Awoman being found dead in an alley with her pantyhose around her neck after being raped and strangled is morally superior to the woman having to explain to the policehow the rapist got that fatal gunshot wound.

    I certainly hope someone didn't actually say that. Or maybe it was Mr. Fox. I dunno.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Soooo justfiable homicides rising back to levels they were at 10 years ago somehow says something meaningful sociologically? Um, I don't think so. I think if anything it says that like 10 years ago, there is a slight increase in crime and that has been reacted to with a slight increase in self-defense requirements. Do science with an agenda and you will always get the wrong answer.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Slayer of Paper wrote:
    Since it show an increase both by LACs and LEOs, I'd say the most likely reason is a general rise in crime (or in this case, attempted crime).
    There certainly is a correlation between the two trend lines, they're often parallel and the difference constant.

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    Campaign Veteran Nelson_Muntz's Avatar
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    FTA: Alfred Blumstein, a Carnegie Mellon University criminologist, says the gun "legalization movement" also may have helped create a "greater willingness" among citizens to act in self-defense.

    Like DD said, more crimes committed with more folks willing to take personal responsibility to defend against it.

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    I would much rather see the number rise injustifiable homicides by gun ownersthanthe murder rate rise under a gunban.

    I guessI just don't see a problem with self defense.



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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Looking at the data points further, the numbers still aren't as high as 1994, which, IIRC, was the last high year before the crime rates started dropping. It is a well known phenomena that in times of high economic stress crime rates increase. Given the economic stressors of the last few years and the prevailing trends towards even worse economic conditions in the foreseeable future, I would expect the increasing trend to continue. The suppositions and conclusions espoused by interviewees in the article are silly at best, nonsensical at worse.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    I doubt that I would listen to any but by John Lott, David Mustard or maybe Gary Kleck. I've read enough of them to grant some credence.

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    I would expect to see that the number of justifiables will increase as the economy stresses. The first one in Kansas happened two weeks after the Right To Carry law went into affect in Kansas. A man from Oklahoma ( we have reciprocity laws) entered a convenience store/gas station to pay for his gas in the middle of an armed roberry. Drew and fired killing the Perp. Cops came,,said thank you very much, and a Judge in Topeka announced from the bench, let the bad guys beware,,we have guns and we will use them
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member Huck's Avatar
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    TODAYThe number of justifiable homicides committed by police and private citizens has been rising in the past two years to their highest levels in more than a decade, reflecting ashoot-first philosophy in dealing with crime.

    That's better than a "get shot first" philosophy. However, there is a solution to this crims, dont attack people and you wont get shot.

    'nuff said
    "You can teach 'em, but you cant learn 'em."

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    John Lott on Justifiable homicides, rising but still dramatically undercounted.

    USA Today has this. My problem is that so few of these cases are reported that it is hard to know whether there is an increase in the number or a slight change in the rate that they are reported.
    The 391 killings by police that were ruled justifiable in 2007 were the most since 1994, FBI statistics show. The 254 killings by private individuals found to be self-defense were the most since 1997. . . .

    Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck says the FBI underestimates self-defense killings by citizens because the ones that are not precipitated by felony crimes may not get counted. "Less than a third of (citizen killings) are reported," he says.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    John Lott on Justifiable homicides, rising but still dramatically undercounted.

    USA Today has this. My problem is that so few of these cases are reported that it is hard to know whether there is an increase in the number or a slight change in the rate that they are reported.
    The 391 killings by police that were ruled justifiable in 2007 were the most since 1994, FBI statistics show. The 254 killings by private individuals found to be self-defense were the most since 1997. . . .

    Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck says the FBI underestimates self-defense killings by citizens because the ones that are not precipitated by felony crimes may not get counted. "Less than a third of (citizen killings) are reported," he says.
    Well, they couldn't have people thinking that average citizens prevent and stop more crime then police. If they did that this country would panic that the wild west mentaily was back.

    :what:

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    Regular Member dukenukum's Avatar
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    the " cure " is so easy do not commit crimes , threaten people and you won't get shot .

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...tifiable_N.htm
    In a landmark decision, the Supreme Court in June carved out a right to individual gun ownership, ruling that the Second Amendment allows citizens to keep guns in their homes for self-defense.


    That's NOT what the Supreme Court ruled.

    Is it ? :shock:

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Dustin wrote:
    Doug Huffman wrote:
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...tifiable_N.htm
    In a landmark decision, the Supreme Court in June carved out a right to individual gun ownership, ruling that the Second Amendment allows citizens to keep guns in their homes for self-defense.


    That's NOT what the Supreme Court ruled.

    Is it ? :shock:
    Basically, yes. The decision came down to only what Heller was asking for and nothing more. That was a handgun in the home and it only applies to D.C. since 2A has not yet been incorporated to the states. D.C. is not a state.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
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    Many gun activists take the Heller decision for what it is not. It addressed a very narrow question about the DC gun prohibition - and all the rest of the verbiage is confounding.



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