FOIA Request - Follow up to Sterile Open Carry at Norfolk City Hall

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I wasn't present but from the circumstances described, I don't think it meets the statutory definition of abduction.

MAYBE - you could have made a case for - http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-404but it requires a LEO.

when you go to see the Magistrate and request your warrant... he or she will probably deny your request because an officer is normally needed for felony cases.

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I'm curious about this. I only have one experiece with it and I did get initial resistance from the magistrate who indicated "only police can get a felony warrant". That's untrue, but I'm not aware of a legal means of coercing their cooperation.

At least the last 3 or 4 years legislation has been introduced by various assembly members to statutorily restrict the issuance of felony warrants to polices, C.A.'s and a few others. Fortunately it's been beaten back.

What are the magistrates afraid of, do they have something against citizens?


Fortunately, I'd already talked to a very nice and helpful FCPD guy who was able to lend a quick assist.

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Mr. Y wrote:

I wasn't present but from the circumstances described, I don't think it meets the statutory definition of abduction.

MAYBE - you could have made a case for - http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-404but it requires a LEO.

when you go to see the Magistrate and request your warrant... he or she will probably deny your request because an officer is normally needed for felony cases.

Click to expand...

I'm curious about this. I only have one experiece with it and I did get initial resistance from the magistrate who indicated "only police can get a felony warrant". That's untrue, but I'm not aware of a legal means of coercing their cooperation.

At least the last 3 or 4 years legislation has been introduced by various assembly members to statutorily restrict the issuance of felony warrants to polices, C.A.'s and a few others. Fortunately it's been beaten back.

What are the magistrates afraid of, do they have something against citizens?


Fortunately, I'd already talked to a very nice and helpful FCPD guy who was able to lend a quick assist.

Click to expand...

Not sure this code would work either. The guard was never asked to stop by the people in control of the people in charge of the property.

§ 18.2-404. Obstructing free passage of others.

Any person or persons who in any

• public place or
• on any private property

open to the public

• unreasonably or
• unnecessarily

obstructs the free passage of other persons

• to and from or within such place or property

and

• who shall fail or refuse to cease such obstruction or move on when requested to do so by
  • the owner or
  • lessee or
  • agent or
  • employee of such owner or lessee or
  • by a duly authorized law-enforcement officer

shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit lawful picketing.

In regards to the magistrate denying a felony warrant.... They have the power to decide if there is probable cause and can decline the warrant. It has been my experience that they make the victim report the matter to the police. I have taken a few reports where the person tried to do it all on his own and was denied a warrant. Often times... there was no basis for the warrant.

It would be so easy to make up a story about someone and then go get a felony warrant. What happens to you when the charges are dropped in court against the guy? Nothing!!

But what happened to the other guy?He was physically arrested, photographed, fingerprinted, placed in a cell, had to pay for a bond, maybe his car was towed during a traffic stop, he has an entry on his criminal record that needs to be expunged, he has to take time off from work to go to court, and he has to pay for an attorney.

WOW!!!! You can really screw with someone by getting a felony warrant!!

While minor misdemeanor charges are summons releasable.



IMO... This is why the police get involved. They can contact the other person and see if there is anything to it and collect statements and evidence.

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Not sure this code would work either. The guard was never asked to stop by the people in control of the people in charge of the property.

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You mean... those pesky, uppity citizens trying to get in?

Yeah, I knew that was a reach too, I only remember the "obstructing the free passage of others" title & had to look it up. That's why I said maybe in all caps...

Thanks for the follow up on the warrant. In my case, I coudln't find any meaty case law so I went to FCPD firstand got the particulars on the table. After some discussion, and research hiseyes lit up like a kid with a new toy at Christmas

"You just let me know if you want to follow through with this, it's surely a felony". Then he gave me all the info I'd need for the magistrate. Sure, I probably could have pushed the magistrate hard enough to get the warrant. I had all the necessary evidence myself. I told FCPD up front I didn't need them to so much 'do everything for me' rather, they're the 'paid professional' in this area of society and probably know more of the ins and outs of the warrant process.

That was correct. Plus, I knew very well that it would be my sworn word that would be involved. Once FCPD indicated we had a crime here, I feltconfident the situation would be resolved to my satisfaction.

I can see thelogic in making sure there's evidence to support a warrant but - thatIS the magistrate's job after all.

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Mr. Y wrote:

Snipped....
I can see thelogic in making sure there's evidence to support a warrant but - thatIS the magistrate's job after all.

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There are times when the Magistrate will not issue a warrant to the police and they have ALL they need to prove the case.

I recall I was declined once because of a "magistrate's conference" where they "talked" about a code. No legal ruling on it to say it was not valid.

The written code was clear... I had what the code said I needed. He refused to issue the warrant.

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LEO 229 wrote:

Mr. Y wrote:

Snipped....
I can see thelogic in making sure there's evidence to support a warrant but - thatIS the magistrate's job after all.

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There are times when the Magistrate will not issue a warrant to the police and they have ALL they need to prove the case.

I recall I was declined once because of a "magistrate's conference" where they "talked" about a code. No legal ruling on it to say it was not valid.

The written code was clear... I had what the code said I needed. He refused to issue the warrant.

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Got a better one for ya 229 -

I'm working off duty and a guy exits a restaurant, walking quickly behind his girl who just walked off on him. She gets in the car, starts the engine and he yells "if you leave me here, I'll bust out your windows".

She stops the car, he walks over and literally rips the passenger side mirror off the car. I arrest him for vandalism (auto tampering)and DIP.

Magistrate says "good thing you got the DIP on him, otherwise you could be facing a false arrest situation". With the deer in the headlight look I say "why?" and he says, ready?

The police dont arrest people for damaging other people's property!

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ProShooter wrote:

Got a better one for ya 229 -

I'm working off duty and a guy exits a restaurant, walking quickly behind his girl who just walked off on him. She gets in the car, starts the engine and he yells "if you leave me here, I'll bust out your windows".

She stops the car, he walks over and literally rips the passenger side mirror off the car. I arrest him for vandalism (auto tampering)and DIP.

Magistrate says "good thing you got the DIP on him, otherwise you could be facing a false arrest situation". With the deer in the headlight look I say "why?" and he says, ready?

The police dont arrest people for damaging other people's property!

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Good one!!!

I better stop making those arrests.... Any idea what I tell the victim?

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Sounds like Chief Wiggum. Here's two quotes:

"Can't you people take the law into your own hands? I mean, we can't be policing the entire city!"

"I'd like to help you ma'am, but, heh heh, I'm afraid there's no law against mailing threatening letters."

:lol:

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LEO 229 wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

Got a better one for ya 229 -

I'm working off duty and a guy exits a restaurant, walking quickly behind his girl who just walked off on him. She gets in the car, starts the engine and he yells "if you leave me here, I'll bust out your windows".

She stops the car, he walks over and literally rips the passenger side mirror off the car. I arrest him for vandalism (auto tampering)and DIP.

Magistrate says "good thing you got the DIP on him, otherwise you could be facing a false arrest situation". With the deer in the headlight look I say "why?" and he says, ready?

The police dont arrest people for damaging other people's property!

Click to expand...

Good one!!!

I better stop making those arrests.... Any idea what I tell the victim?

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The Magistrate told me "you need to call the victim right now and advise them they they'll have to seek the warrant". So at 4am, I called the girl's mom since she was the registered owner and told her to come down and get a warrant. She had no idea what I was talking about since daughter dearest hadnt come home yet!

Even better one - I go back by the judge's entrance to the courthouse and see a Deputy talking to a guy with a backpack. The guy says " Im here for court because my baby's momma charged me with domestic assault. I have a gun in my bag and I dont know what to do with it".

I ask him if he has a CHP and he says no. I check the bag and sure enough, there's a loaded Ruger 9mm. I ask him again if he has a CHP, and he says no. So I gave him 3 hots and a cot and we go to court a few weeks later.

JVDR Judge - "you were carrying a firearm while subject to a protective order" - I find you GUILTY

Gen Dist Judge - " Well, you were carrying a handgun illegally, but the fact that you told the officer that you had it goes to your credit, so I'm going to find you "NOT GUILTY"........

Guess the judge didnt care aboutthose 500 1 inch square glassine zip lock bags that were next to the gun....

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ProShooter wrote:

Guess the judge didnt care aboutthose 500 1 inch square glassine zip lock bags that were next to the gun....

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Maybe he was a stamp collector too!:what:

Sorry, I couldn't resist....

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DocV wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

Guess the judge didnt care aboutthose 500 1 inch square glassine zip lock bags that were next to the gun....

Click to expand...

Maybe he was a stamp collector too!:what:

Sorry, I couldn't resist....

Click to expand...

I assumed "wristwatch battery salesman"

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ProShooter wrote:

DocV wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

Guess the judge didnt care aboutthose 500 1 inch square glassine zip lock bags that were next to the gun....

Click to expand...

Maybe he was a stamp collector too!:what:

Sorry, I couldn't resist....

Click to expand...

I assumed "wristwatch battery salesman"

Click to expand...

I was thinking he was a zip lock designer and those were just free samples that he gave to the people in his clientele.

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Sleepless wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

DocV wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

Guess the judge didnt care aboutthose 500 1 inch square glassine zip lock bags that were next to the gun....

Click to expand...

Maybe he was a stamp collector too!:what:

Sorry, I couldn't resist....

Click to expand...

I assumed "wristwatch battery salesman"

Click to expand...

I was thinking he was a zip lock designer and those were just free samples that he gave to the people in his clientele.

Click to expand...

It is simple...!! Some people like to keep crumbs fresh!!

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LEO 229 wrote:

Sleepless wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

DocV wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

Guess the judge didnt care aboutthose 500 1 inch square glassine zip lock bags that were next to the gun....

Click to expand...

Maybe he was a stamp collector too!:what:

Sorry, I couldn't resist....

Click to expand...

I assumed "wristwatch battery salesman"

Click to expand...

I was thinking he was a zip lock designer and those were just free samples that he gave to the people in his clientele.

Click to expand...

It is simple...!! Some people like to keep crumbs fresh!!

Click to expand...

LMAO