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Thread: Here is another guns for gift cards swap. In Chesapeake!!!

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Chesapeake to swap $100 gift cards for handguns
    Posted to: Chesapeake Crime News



    Two sides
    Critics say such efforts don’t generally attract criminals; the programs are too costly; and participants can use the money to buy better guns. The city says it is offering gift cards to prevent people from trading up and is looking for donations to fund the effort.


    By Kristin Davis
    The Virginian-Pilot
    © October 18, 2008
    CHESAPEAKE

    Police officers will swap $100 gift cards for handguns - and only handguns - in the city's first buyback program planned for later this year.

    It's a departure from other gift certificates-for-guns projects that have accepted everything from Grandpa's World War II carbine to Dad's hunting rifle.

    The buyback is one of several citizen-generated initiatives that sprang from a series of Chesapeake community meetings following the July 1 deaths of two South Norfolk men. Both were killed by people armed with handguns.

    The city plans to set up at least two locations one day this winter where gift certificates from a major retail store will be traded for unloaded handguns in working order - no questions asked. Police will take other types of firearms, but they won't hand out gift cards for those, said Officer Dorienne Boykin, Chesapeake Police Department spokeswoman.

    Hundreds of people lined up to trade rifles, pistols, sawed-off shotguns, assault weapons and a host of other guns for $100 gift certificates in a Newport News buyback nearly a year ago.

    The program netted 357 firearms - and was considered so successful that another one is planned for December, said Newport News police spokeswoman Holly McPherson.

    Critics say that such efforts generally attract law-abiding citizens rather than criminals or would-be criminals; that the programs are too costly; and that participants can use the money to buy better guns.

    Chesapeake hopes donations from private companies will fund the initiative, Boykin said.

    They're offering gift cards instead of cash to prevent people from trading up.

    "It's good to get guns off the street, but that's not the solution," said Calvin Coley, a felon and former gang member who now speaks out against crime.

    "After I spend my gift certificate, I'm back to where I was. A gun was my protection, my survival tool," Coley said. "After you turn it in, what else do you have to offer them? What do you have for the guy who turns in his gun and really wants to make a difference?"

    Dr. Lin Hill, director of South Norfolk Christian Outreach Ministry, called the buyback "just one of the slices in the pie."

    Several crime-prevention strategies are planned in Chesapeake throughout the next year, including a campaign to encourage young people to report crimes, mentoring programs and faith-based re-entry services for those recently released from jail.

    Police will determine whether the weapons exchanged in the Chesapeake buyback are stolen or were used in the commission of a crime, Boykin said.

    Stolen guns will be returned to their owners. Guns used in crimes will be processed as evidence.

    The rest will be destroyed, Boykin said.

    Kristin Davis, (757) 222-5208, kristin.davis@pilotonline.com
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    I hate those buy back programs!!!

    As the article says.....

    "The rest will be destroyed!!"

    What a shame!


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Buy back programs = ignorance feeding on ignorance.

    Yata hey


    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    "Buyback" implies that the government once owned the firearms. I would lik to see the stats on how many guns they find that were used in a crime.
    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    T Dubya wrote:
    "Buyback" implies that the government once owned the firearms. I would lik to see the stats on how many guns they find that were used in a crime.
    I wonder if the guns know how to say "Am I being detained?"
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    My FOIA Request to the Chief of Police regarding the program:

    18 October 2008

    From: XXX XXXXXXXX

    XXXXXXXXXXX

    Chesapeake, VA XXXXX



    To: K.L Wright

    Chief of Police

    304 Albemarle Rd.

    Chesapeake, VA 23322



    Sir, in the 18 October 2008 Virginia Pilot Journalist Kristen Davis wrote an article describing a Chesapeake P.D. handgun swap for gift cards.



    In accordance with the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) please provide the following information:



    Any policy, instruction, rule, regulation, written procedure, written letter, e-mail or other communication for this gun buy back program, to include the coordination, cooperation, funding or donations to this gun buy back program with any other government agency or organization, private company, corporation or individual.



    The preferred response is in a digital format delivered by e-mail to XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.



    Thank you for your contribution to open government.



    Sincerely,



    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Man, I wish it was in NoVA, I have a busted P22 i want to get rid of!

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Under whatlaw does a Chief of Police in Virginia have the authority to destroy public property which has value? I am just curious.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    "Whats cracking?"What utter nonsense. As if any gangbanger would trade their piece for a measly $100 when they can sell drugs or rob someone when they arenot busy killing a rival gang member. Only naive citizens will take up this offer and it will do nothing to lessenthe nightly shootings in the hood.

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    T Dubya wrote:
    "Buyback" implies that the government once owned the firearms. I would lik to see the stats on how many guns they find that were used in a crime.
    I think that lack of published stats pretty much sums up the level of success.

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    Regular Member MeBaby's Avatar
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    The sadest part is that there are people out there that believe that this does something to reduce crime.

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    Thundar wrote:
    Under whatlaw does a Chief of Police in Virginia have the authority to destroy public property which has value? I am just curious.
    Interesting question.

    I know that items from a police property room are destroyed all the time if the owner cannot be found or it goes unclaimed. These items could possibly be sold at an auction to generate money for the local government.

    Some items are used by the department but there is a ton of paperwork that must be completed before it can happen.

    But you KNOW that they want those guns off the streets... for good!!

    I would be interested in knowing who pays for the gift cards. I would not want my local government paying for guns and then cutting them up.

    It has no impact on crimeand is a feel good measure only.

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    Will the transactions generate 4473's and if not why not?

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    1.As if any gangbanger would trade their piece for a measly $100 when they can sell drugs or rob someone when they arenot busy killing a rival gang member.

    2. Only naive citizens will take up this offer
    3. it will do nothing to lessenthe nightly shootings in the hood.
    1. Actually it would be a great way to dispose of a gun used in a crime, knowing it would be destroyed by the very people looking for it, irony.

    2. Not true, I know many LAC that have used the stupid BB to get rid of abroken(unrepairable) firearm.
    When I had my FFL I bought Jennings/ Lorcins for $50 new and turned them in for $100 GC's.

    3. Agreed.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Campaign Veteran Nelson_Muntz's Avatar
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    I know that items from a police property room are destroyed all the time if the owner cannot be found or it goes unclaimed. These items could possibly be sold at an auction to generate money for the local government.
    Some departments do sell confiscated goods at auction. I guess some are not allowed to as well. Here's a site that routinely disposes of confiscated stuff as well as dumps remaining stocks of equipment (no guns though):

    http://www.propertyroom.com/Default.aspx

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Will the transactions generate 4473's and if not why not?
    Because they're the Government. They can do whatever the hell they want. Who's going to stop them? The BATF? pfft. :X

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    nova wrote:
    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Will the transactions generate 4473's and if not why not?
    Because they're the Government. They can do whatever the hell they want. Who's going to stop them? The BATF? pfft. :X
    A Firearms Transaction Record, or Form 4473, is a United States government form that must be filled out when a person purchases a firearm from a Federal Firearm License holder (such as a gun shop).


    They are not buying guns from "gun dealers"maybe former "drug"dealers
    So I suspect it would no more required than it would fora private purchase.


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    Campaign Veteran kimbercarrier's Avatar
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    Hey it works for me. I have a piece of crap .38 a friend gave me that's so unsafe I'd be afraid to pistol whip you with it. A dealer at a gun show said it wasn't worth $25.

    I'm looking for some christmas money. A Walmart gift card to go buy some ammo would be sweet.

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    kimbercarrier wrote:
    Hey it works for me. I have a piece of crap .38 a friend gave me that's so unsafe I'd be afraid to pistol whip you with it. A dealer at a gun show said it wasn't worth $25.

    I'm looking for some christmas money. A Walmart gift card to go buy some ammo would be sweet.
    Don't. You're really just "taking" your fellow taxpayers.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Thundar wrote:
    SNIP My FOIA Request to the Chief of Police regarding the program:
    You understand that could be a very expensive FOIA.

    See the provisions ofVA Code 2.2-3704:

    F. A public body may make reasonable charges not to exceed its actual cost incurred in accessing, duplicating, supplying, or searching for the requested records...All charges for the supplying of requested records shall be estimated in advance at the request of the citizen.

    H. In any case where a public body determines in advance that charges for producing the requested records are likely to exceed $200, the public body may, before continuing to process the request, require the requester to agree to payment of a deposit not to exceed the amount of the advance determination.

    Since you didn't ask for a pre-determination or put a dollar amount limiter statement in your request, you could be on the hook for as much as two hundred dollars or more, depending on how much info there is tosearch, duplicate, and release. Notice they may require pre-payment for over $200. Not must.

    I think it wise to put a dollar limiter statement ina FOIArequest. Something like, "If youestimate the cost of this FOIA requestwill exceed $(amount you're willing to pay here), please contact me with your estimate and await my written authorization before proceeding with the search for the requested records."

    Also, its wise to leave no room for any misunderstandings about what exact information is requested. The above FOIA request is worded a little vaguely in the middle where the actual records are specified. You could end up with a reply that, in part, sends you to the custodian of records for the other agencies. I like the idea of making a separate line for each record or category of records. Whatever makes it mistake proof.

    Well done on keeping it neutral. Adversarial FOIA's only tip your hand and tell the responder he might as well start exercising exemptions, including any he can contrive or invent, if he is so inclined.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+2.2-3704
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Thundar wrote:
    SNIP Any policy, instruction, rule, regulation, written procedure, written letter, e-mail or other communication for this gun buy back program, to include the coordination, cooperation, funding or donations to this gun buy back program with any other government agency or organization, private company, corporation or individual.
    I might break this up into a list with an initial sentence leading into the list:

    "The requested records are all recordsregardingthe next gun buy-back program, including, but not limited to:

    1. Any policy, rule, regulation, or written procedure (modify to include and exlcude what kinds of policies--just setting up the program?how to actually work the table and define whatguns are acceptable? Etc.)
    2. Any memos, letters, or e-mails regarding the program.
    3. Records showing or discussion funding for the program.
    4. Records discussing or showing coordination with any other government agency, private organization, company, corporation, or individual."

    You'll have to work with the phrasing a bit, especially if you don't want all records, or don't want the expense of all records.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member sccrref's Avatar
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    Does anyone know if they do a background check on themselves for each and every purchase? If they are not, we should contact our representatives and get the gun buy back loop hole closed.

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    sccrref wrote:
    Does anyone know if they do a background check on themselves for each and every purchase? If they are not, we should contact our representatives and get the gun buy back loop hole closed.
    Valid point....

    But is there not a state codes out there already that referto firearms "collections" by law enforcement? I checked but could not locate it. I know I read it some place as it was worded in a way that I viewed this very situation.

    It would be very easy to write in an exclusion toto permitlaw enforcementto conduct this type of transaction if the guns were not for private ownership anddone so on behalf of the department.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I kind of like buybacks. I've bought several very nice guns from the line. I'll plan on being at this one too!

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    peter nap wrote:
    I kind of like buybacks. I've bought several very nice guns from the line. I'll plan on being at this one too!
    I was wondering about that... I would sort of assume the persons running the buyback would have a problem with someone doing that. But I don't suppose there are any laws against it, and with preemption, it may even be illegal for a locality to set a policy that would stop it!

    You might find a gem for a steal, if someone with no gun knowledge is just cleaning out a closet, etc... Hey, I'd probably take a crisp $100 bill over a gift card any day!

    If you are doing a private one-to-one sale, does the 30 days per handgun limit apply?

    TFred

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