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Thread: Had you been in New Orleans during the gun seizure, what would you have done?

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    I'm sure all of you know what happened in New Orleans during the hurricane that almost wiped out the city. The chief of police declared that only LE would have guns and he ordered his officers to confiscate all firearms from citizens. This meant that the remaining citizens were unable to protect themselves, their family and their property as the bad guys kept their guns.

    Many officers threw the guns to the ground and stomped on them. Many threw them into a pond or river. Many, if the gun was nice, put it on their person to keep for themselves. The few guns that actually made it to storage, ended up severely rusted. (Did you see the pictures in the NRA magazine?) Few citizens got their guns back and even fewer got them back in the condition they were in prior to the seizure.

    One elderly woman was handing her revolver to the police and was brutally slammed into a wall even though she had the cylinder hanging out of the revolver. She supposedly pointed this obviously empty gun at police while handing it to them. This was captured on TV.

    I've often wondered how I would have responded when they knocked on my door (or busted through my door) to seize my guns. I can't see myself shooting LE, yet I would have resisted in some manner. Maybe just hiding my guns throughout the house making it difficult for them to find them. BUT they probably would have torn my house apart to find them. Many of the officers acted wrongly when carrying out this order.

    What would you have done?

    open4years

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    Honestly, I would have walked out of the city before it came to that, but it is difficult for me to speculate what I'd do if they rammed my door down and took my possessions. It's difficult for me, in an imagined sense, to consider shooting the slobs who are 'just following orders' - not like they know any better (NOT a shot at LEOs!!!), and at the end of the day they're just trying to get by like I am. All the same, my firearms in times of disaster are my first and last line of defense, and having someone come by and just take them for whatever reason would be akin to declawing a cat and turning it's teeth to rubber.

    I wouldn't just hand them over, but by the same token I'm not sure I could open fire on the invaders all the same. Until I do encounter the situation - and I hope I never have to - I simply cannot state how I would react. The situation to me screams a form of organized resistance without advertising it - know they would be coming, hide my arsenal, give them a few BB guns, then warn everyone else that they were coming to disarm us all.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Surrendering your means of self defense was a death sentence for some in New Orleans. Criminals in uniform are still criminals. I would hide firearms because a firefight around my house with my kids inside is stupid.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    I probably would have died... but not alone.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Walleye wrote:
    I wouldn't just hand them over, but by the same token I'm not sure I could open fire on the invaders all the same. Until I do encounter the situation - and I hope I never have to - I simply cannot state how I would react. The situation to me screams a form of organized resistance without advertising it - know they would be coming, hide my arsenal, give them a few BB guns, then warn everyone else that they were coming to disarm us all.
    x2

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    What firearms?





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    open4years wrote:
    Many officers threw the guns to the ground and stomped on them. Many threw them into a pond or river. Many, if the gun was nice, put it on their person to keep for themselves. The few guns that actually made it to storage, ended up severely rusted. (Did you see the pictures in the NRA magazine?) Few citizens got their guns back and even fewer got them back in the condition they were in prior to the seizure.
    LE was out of control during this period in and around New Orleans. It was one of the worst displays of police lawlessness in the history of this country. It provides a lesson in confirming Lord Acton's axiom: "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power tends to corrupt absollutely." Those LE operatives were responsible for a huge black mark against LEOs across the land. They were, and are, pathetic excuses for LEOs. The disgraced their oath of office and the constitution. They were lawless. Not law enforcement.


    open4years wrote:
    One elderly woman was handing her revolver to the police and was brutally slammed into a wall even though she had the cylinder hanging out of the revolver. She supposedly pointed this obviously empty gun at police while handing it to them. This was captured on TV.
    Patty Konie. I remember seeing that bully cop. Big tough guy. Beats up old ladies. And his colleagues came in to help him wrestle Konie down to the ground. What a bad dude. What tough guys. Cowards.


    open4years wrote:
    I've often wondered how I would have responded when they knocked on my door (or busted through my door) to seize my guns. I can't see myself shooting LE, yet I would have resisted in some manner. Maybe just hiding my guns throughout the house making it difficult for them to find them. BUT they probably would have torn my house apart to find them. Many of the officers acted wrongly when carrying out this order.

    What would you have done?
    Looking at it realistically, if I had been at Katrina, I would have almost certainly opened up the door to any LE and would have almost certainly been disarmed.

    What would I do in a future incident like Katrina where LE was coming on my property and wanting to get my guns? If I actually had decided to stay in my home during a Katrina-type event (an unlikely possibility), my goal would be to remain undetected. I'd have my home locked up and I would not answer the door and would give no indication that anyone was home. I would provide some indication that the house wasevacuated. Then I would hope and pray that they would move on to another victim.

    Here's an 8 minute summary of what happened, including the Konie incident:

    NRA: The Untold Story of Gun Confiscation After Katrina

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4





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    It's an interesting question because what it really comes down to is "was I serious when I said they'd take my guns from my cold, dead hands?"

    No one said or did anything when they started violating other restrictions on government... I don't see it starting for this.

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    I have seen this question posed in a few places.. would you actually stand up for your rights as did our founding fathers did. Would you put your life on the line for your beliefs and "gauranteed freedoms"? Or have we as a whole become way too complacent and in the end give in... ? I can't even say for sure what I would do. Would I really buck the system? Or go along just to live another day.. hmmm.. dangit, I need some coffee.. my brain hurts.. J

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    Would you rather die on your feet, or live on your knees???

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    buster81 wrote:
    Would you rather die on your feet, or live on your knees???
    Oh, please. :?

    Either/or fallacy:

    http://ksumail.kennesaw.edu/~shagin/...c-eitheror.htm

    What would you do, buster81?

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    It must not have been too bad because those same people were re-elected right back into the office they were in before Katrina. If this is what the people of New Orleans want then we have no right to deny them the privledge of it.

    We have no right to impose our will on the people of New Orleans, we just have to pay for it.

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    JBURGII wrote:
    I have seen this question posed in a few places.. would you actually stand up for your rights as did our founding fathers did. Would you put your life on the line for your beliefs and "gauranteed freedoms"? Or have we as a whole become way too complacent and in the end give in... ? I can't even say for sure what I would do. Would I really buck the system? Or go along just to live another day.. hmmm.. dangit, I need some coffee.. my brain hurts.. J
    That is exactly the question that I posed to myself. When the day does come that Obama takes all of our guns away, using BATF forms to know how many we have, what will we do? I would still have some left from buying from individuals, but "not enough."

    Once again, it will be LEO responding, as it will be in any situation. I have a close relationship with them in my town and I see them as regular guys doing a job that they don't always agree with.

    However, if they took my Kimber Grand Raptor (or one of the guns that belonged to may father) and stuck it in their belt, without giving me a receipt, or they threw it in a river or pond, or they stomped on it, etc., I would respond in some manner. Which would end up with me in jail. I still couldn't shoot them even if they acted in such a manner.

    BUT you are right - "WE" say that they will have to pry our cold dead hands away from our guns, as most of NRA members say, but would we actually do it when the time comes, like it did in New Orleans?

    open4years

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    There is such a thing as discretion being the better part of valor and living to fight another day. If you were in one of those houses in NOLA alone, or with just your spouse and kids, getting in a firefight with LEO trying to seize your firearms was a lose lose lose scenario.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Campaign Veteran Freeflight's Avatar
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    They could have them...



    Only trouble is they would be HOT and EMPTY.


    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

    Free Flight

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    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
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    Everyone talks about a SHTF situation. Being stuck in New Orleans after Katrina was a true SHTF situation. If there ever was a time for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms it was then. Being disarmed could very realistically result in you being killed by looters or other 'evil doers'. Anyone showing up at my home to take my possessions (TV, car, guns, etc) will be met with deadly force. It doesn't matter if they are in street clothes or a uniform.
    President/ Founding Member
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    open4years

    I am still running possibilities through my mind on this subject. I know all the officers in my town. We aren't friends but always congenial, so would I take up arms in defense of my family and property against aleo who was sent to confiscate my personal property in what would be construed as an illegal search and siezure?

    Do you follow legal means in a peaceful manner under a non-stressful situation and save the "last stand" for an event similar to Katrina? At what point do we reach the point where we would actually shed blood for our rights?

    With the current economic and political climate, how do we know when we should be paranoid or just prepared.. cuz they say its not paranoia when they really are out to get you. Some of my friends and family roll their eyes a bit.. both conservative and liberal sides at my point of view.. I was ready and actually looking forward to a large scale breakdown of global society when the whole "millenium bug" panic was at large. I was ready to head for the hills and enjoy surviving and watching those who are completely dependant on government and entertainment go nuts trying to find an open fast food resturant..

    Crap, am I rambling again.. ??

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    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
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    JBURGII wrote:
    Crap, am I rambling again.. ??
    Yes but it's alright. We accept you and will not judge you for it. Group Hug.
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    yale wrote:
    Everyone talks about a SHTF situation. Being stuck in New Orleans after Katrina was a true SHTF situation. If there ever was a time for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms it was then. Being disarmed could very realistically result in you being killed by looters or other 'evil doers'. Anyone showing up at my home to take my possessions (TV, car, guns, etc) will be met with deadly force. It doesn't matter if they are in street clothes or a uniform.
    If they are armed LEOs or military, they will kill you and anyone with you. Is that worth it?

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    yale wrote:
    JBURGII wrote:
    Crap, am I rambling again.. ??
    Yes but it's alright. We accept you and will not judge you for it. Group Hug.
    LOL, Thanks.. I never can tell if I have had too much or not enough coffee..:what:

    Now my worries are building.. what if the leo sees the classic ol wooden cross tattoo on my arm? Will I now be branded a fanatic gun weilding faith monger? He can see my tattoo from my previous mis-interpretation of the second ammendment and the following switch to all sleeveless shirts, jackets, hoodies... bare.. bear.. I did get that confused for a very short period of time..

    So, all joking aside.. for a lack of witnesses in a "Katrina situation".. do I now switch my tac light or laser for a micro video recorder on my weaver rail? Would that be admisable? A quad rail with tac light bottom, laser right rail, video recorder left rail, and a noise cancelling boom mic on top? My AR is getting heavy.. sigh..

    J

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    HankT wrote:
    yale wrote:
    Everyone talks about a SHTF situation. Being stuck in New Orleans after Katrina was a true SHTF situation. If there ever was a time for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms it was then. Being disarmed could very realistically result in you being killed by looters or other 'evil doers'. Anyone showing up at my home to take my possessions (TV, car, guns, etc) will be met with deadly force. It doesn't matter if they are in street clothes or a uniform.
    If they are armed LEOs or military, they will kill you and anyone with you. Is that worth it?
    I know at my home, I have the high ground. Are you so sure they will have the advantage? Or would have that many officers on hand under the circumstances?

    The officer knocks and requests (demands) your firearms.. I am standing there with my (add favorite weapon here) at ready yet not target acquired, will the officer be willing to draw on me at the moment? Will he call for backup? Will that give me time to have a witness on hand? Crap, okay, I think I answered my own previous question on the amount of coffee I have had.. Im gonna go take a drive.. back later..



    J

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    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    If they are armed LEOs or military, they will kill you and anyone with you. Is that worth it?
    No. You are correct. I should do like the jews did whenHitlers brown shirts came around. Just turn over my means of self defense and make it easier to be killed later.


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    yale wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    If they are armed LEOs or military, they will kill you and anyone with you. Is that worth it?
    No. You are correct. I should do like the jews did whenHitlers brown shirts came around. Just turn over my means of self defense and make it easier to be killed later.
    So, you think it rational to trade instant death for the, um, possibility of later death?

    You got family in that home?

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    yale wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    If they are armed LEOs or military, they will kill you and anyone with you. Is that worth it?
    No. You are correct. I should do like the jews did whenHitlers brown shirts came around. Just turn over my means of self defense and make it easier to be killed later.



    It's a matter of circumstance. No one was rounded up and massacred after Katrina. The point he's trying to make is to use your head. It's not worth getting yourself and your family killed to give up your guns for a few days to a few weeks. No one would be happy about it, but it's simple cost vs. benefit and the odds aren't in your favor if you chose the route of non-compliance. On the other hand, if you truly believe it's Nazi Germany round 2 and they're taking your guns so they can take you next, and you're going to be dead either way, then by all means go down in a blaze of lead filled glory. I would.

    For once I agree with this guy:

    deepdiver wrote:
    There is such a thing as discretion being the better part of valor and living to fight another day. If you were in one of those houses in NOLA alone, or with just your spouse and kids, getting in a firefight with LEO trying to seize your firearms was a lose lose lose scenario.

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    It's a dilemma for sure. Since power was out pretty much everywhere, it's a good bet that most people hadn't heard of the police chief's gun seizure order, and so, would not have been prepared. They wouldn't even have known to hide any guns. For most involved, the first they heard of it was police and national guard at their door demanding entrance.

    Imagine it for a second: You have absolutely no reason to expect that the government has given an order to confiscate firearms- it has never been done before, why would you? You get a knock on your door, and see that it is several police and national guardsmen with rifles. They inform you that you are being evacuated, and you are required to open the door, or they will break it down. You're obviously not prepared for a fight like this, so what do you do?

    I think that in NOLA, no one really even had a chance to make a stand for their rights. They were taken completely by surprise, and met with superior force.

    If a similar situation were to happen NOW, I think there would be considerably different stories. There would almost certainly be cases where people refused to be disarmed, and yes, some would get into to fire fights with law enforcement and soldiers. Many would die.

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