Can the president change the constitution?

AWDstylez · Oct 21, 2008

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foxcall wrote:

we have have seen the greatest expansion of government, possibly ever in this country, in the past 8 years.

Click to expand...

Yes, perhaps I jumped the gun a little in making that statement. I tend to have tunnel vision at times. Hell, I've been dealing with the Endangered Species Act for some time now and that's another example which I totally forgot about.

It'll probably be the small things we need to worry about, like some bill slipped to congress that isn't highly publicized and what not. Gradual erosion of liberties is their key to "change", we just need to stay alert.

I think what you should have said was the greatest expansion of the executive branch. While other presidents and congresses may have expanded the overall scope of the government as a whole, I believe Bush is unparalleled in his expansion of executive branch power.

Things like the creation of various departments, SS, and welfare definitely expand and redefine the role of government, but as far as civil rights go, they pale in comparison to things like the Patriot Act and Military Commissions Act.

For reference:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2006/06/06/BL2006060600667.html

SlackwareRobert · Oct 21, 2008

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Lets not forget, he is still a senator from the election till the coronation.
so he can propose constitutional ammendments, and then in Jan. blackmail
the states to ratify. (well half the states:shock

Can we still say blackmail?

Wouldn't it be great if spineless bush would ban him from whitehouse as
a security risk till Jan 21. He can't get security clearence to enter, so stay outside.
Now thats change I could support.

FogRider · Oct 21, 2008

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Banned from the WH because you don't like him? How very American.

AWDstylez · Oct 21, 2008

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SlackwareRobert wrote:

Wouldn't it be great if spineless bush would ban him from whitehouse as
a security risk till Jan 21. He can't get security clearence to enter, so stay outside.
Now thats change I could support.

I guess you don't see the irony in that statement. Surprising, given the recent course of the conversation.

The system works how it was designed. You have a problem with it? Blame your fellow American voters.

Flintlock · Oct 21, 2008

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mdgary wrote:

Can the president change the constitution?

If not..Then why are so many people worried about our guns be taken away?

If so..Then why has'nt past presidents done it?

In a word... Yes.

While the 10th amendment is very clear to me, it is apparently not overly clear to others that have held the the office of President. Executive orders are a usurpation of legislative power and authority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order_(United_States)

SlackwareRobert · Oct 21, 2008

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AWDstylez wrote:

The system works how it was designed. You have a problem with it? Blame your fellow American voters.

Ahh, no it isn't. The system was designed with the Senate loking after the states interest. That was removed, and now the system is totaly broken.

My fellow voters arn't the problem, my elected officials are.:cuss:

mobeewan · Oct 21, 2008

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Don't forgetthe Crime bill of 1994. Dem president, Dem controlled house and Demcontrolled senate.

Now we will have a far left pres, senate and house that want to pass Crime Bill II. The Republicans will have a snowballs chance in hell to get a 10 year sunset clause this time.

Doug Huffman · Oct 22, 2008

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SlackwareRobert wrote:

Ahh, no it isn't. The system was designed with the Senate loking after the states interest. That was removed, and now the system is totaly broken.

My fellow voters arn't the problem, my elected officials are.:cuss:

Further, the system was designed as a republic of sovereign federated States in a confederation. That was broken in the 'Civil War'. The system is multiply broken.

AWDstylez · Oct 22, 2008

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SlackwareRobert wrote:

AWDstylez wrote:

The system works how it was designed. You have a problem with it? Blame your fellow American voters.

Click to expand...

Ahh, no it isn't. The system was designed with the Senate loking after the states interest. That was removed, and now the system is totaly broken.

My fellow voters arn't the problem, my elected officials are.:cuss:

Irony hits home again.

Maybe you get it now?

Doug Huffman said:
Further, the system was designed as a republic of sovereign federated States in a confederation. That was broken in the 'Civil War'. The system is multiply broken.

Your opinion has no impact on policyin a republic. You have no impact on policy in the US, currently. You want it.You go it. What are you complaining about?

And as an aside, because I'm tried of the idiotic cry, "It's not a Democracy!!! It's a Republic!!!11!!!1!"

[align=left]

An Important Distinction: Democracy versus Republic

[/align]
It is important to keep in mind the difference between a Democracy and a Republic, as dissimilar forms of government. Understanding the difference is essential to comprehension of the fundamentals involved. It should be noted, in passing, that use of the word Democracy as meaning merely the popular type of government--that is, featuring genuinely free elections by the people periodically--is not helpful in discussing, as here, the difference between alternative and dissimilar forms of a popular government: a Democracy versus a Republic. This double meaning of Democracy--a popular-type government in general, as well as a specific form of popular government--needs to be made clear in any discussion, or writing, regarding this subject, for the sake of sound understanding.

Doug Huffman · Oct 22, 2008

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Large font makes it true NOT.

Then what does 'demos' mean? You can say "contraction of democratic" if you will but that will only illustrate shallowness.

AWDstylez · Oct 22, 2008

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Doug Huffman wrote:

Large font makes it true NOT.

Then what does 'demos' mean? You can say "contraction of democratic" if you will but that will only illustrate shallowness.

You missed the point. When people say America is a "democracy" they're referring to the fact that the government is popular vote selected. They don't mean "democracy" in the strict, government FORM (rather than TYPE) of the word.

It really has nothing to do with the topic at hand, it's just a common annoyance for me and people on here love to cry about it.

Sonora Rebel · Oct 22, 2008

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The US Constitution and the Arizona Constitution only recognizes pre-existing Rights... It does not grant them. It is a formally codified Govenmental declaration of Recognition only. Should this Obama clown... or any other... individually or in committee, remove such recognition... It still does not remove my Right as a free man to defend myself, my family or my property byforce of arms. I need no one's 'permission' to do that and will not be cowed by some temporary 'occupants' of the White House or the Congress as to the means.It does however... brand them forever Tyrants. I took an oath (6 times) to defend the United States of Americafrom all enemies, both foreign and domestic, so help me God. I have never and will never reneg upon that oath. If it should take a revolution to remove such domestic enemies as may surface within our own government... Then count me in. 'Won't be the first time I've gone to war.

Toymaker · Oct 22, 2008

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AWDstylez wrote:

Doug Huffman wrote:

Large font makes it true NOT.

Then what does 'demos' mean? You can say "contraction of democratic" if you will but that will only illustrate shallowness.

Click to expand...

You missed the point. When people say America is a "democracy" they're referring to the fact that the government is popular vote selected. They don't mean "democracy" in the strict, government FORM (rather than TYPE) of the word.

It really has nothing to do with the topic at hand, it's just a common annoyance for me and people on here love to cry about it.

No, you missed the point......... 'shallowness'.

When you say that America is a Democracy then youshould define 'what type of democracy it is'. There are many different types. America is a Constitutional Republic.

Get over your own arrogance and stop letting the truth annoy you. Too many people think that America is apure democracy, and it's not.

AWDstylez · Oct 22, 2008

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Toymaker wrote:

AWDstylez wrote:

Doug Huffman wrote:

Large font makes it true NOT.

Then what does 'demos' mean? You can say "contraction of democratic" if you will but that will only illustrate shallowness.

Click to expand...

You missed the point. When people say America is a "democracy" they're referring to the fact that the government is popular vote selected. They don't mean "democracy" in the strict, government FORM (rather than TYPE) of the word.

It really has nothing to do with the topic at hand, it's just a common annoyance for me and people on here love to cry about it.

Click to expand...

No, you missed the point......... 'shallowness'.

When you say that America is a Democracy then youshould define 'what type of democracy it is'. There are many different types. America is a Constitutional Republic.

Get over your own arrogance and stop letting the truth annoy you. Too many people think that America is apure democracy, and it's not.

Too many people focus on nothing but American Idol and Deal Or No Deal. I'm not "too many people," you aren't, "too many people," and this isn't, "too many people.com." We're above the average idiot and should speak and comprehend on a level above the average idiot. Democracy is an acceptable way to refer to our system of government whether you like it or not. No, democracy isn't the governement FORM, but it is the government TYPE. The word happens to have duel meaning and I can't stand people like you that think you're on some higher plain and correct everyone elsewith, "no, it's a republic."

Sonora Rebel · Oct 22, 2008

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You're so hung up on symantics it's pathetic. The United States is a Constitutional Republic. PERIOD! The form of government isthat of Representative Democracy.

Doug Huffman · Oct 22, 2008

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Sonora Rebel wrote:

You're so hung up on symantics it's pathetic. The United States is a Constitutional Republic. PERIOD! The form of government isthat of Representative Democracy.

The 'D' word does not occur in any foundational document. I found a list that sliced and diced rule of the demos in twenty-three different ways.

demos δῆμος ‘the people’ In Latin its vulgus (“‘common people’”) Old French comun

Even our language warns us against mob rule.

deepdiver · Oct 22, 2008

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Democracy became an acceptable way to refer to the republic over the last 25-30 years as talking heads in the media and ignorant politicians started using the term will-nilly inappropriately. The failure of the government indocrina... er educational system does not mean that we have to succumb to inaccurate verbiage.

English is a precise language. There is no excuse to not be accurate.

CrossFire · Oct 22, 2008

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IIRC the "D" word was first uttered by Woodrow Wilson.

Tomahawk · Oct 22, 2008

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CrossFire wrote:

IIRC the "D" word was first uttered by Woodrow Wilson.

Not first uttered, but certainly the progressives of the Wilson era popularized the word, as they were atempting to remove the checks and balances of the constitution and provide a fertile language and idea ground for the uncontrolled growth of government, the expansion of American imperial power overseas to spread "democracy", and institute their crazy anti-enlightenment ideas. They were largely sucesssful. Today's United State(s) is a far cry from the limited federal republic set up in the 1780's. Lincoln started it, and the progressives such as TR, Wilson, and of course FDR finished it off. With the exception of margianlized figures like Barry Goldwater and Ron Paul, most modern U.S. politicians start off with all the common schoolhouse fallacies about what America is, was, and should be, and most voters are cut from the same cloth. You have to be a dedicated history student to actually learn the real deal.

Sonora Rebel · Oct 22, 2008

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"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
- Winston Churchill

Can the president change the constitution?

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