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How can we get Open Carrying more widely accepted?

deepdiver

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I agree that the way to do it day to day is to do it day to day. Unfortunately I can't daily due to local ordinances. But when I am in places where OC is legal, I almost always OC. I'll even switch from CC to OC when I get in one of those areas.

I also agree with it not being a big deal and not making it a big deal. I pretty much carry my sidearm as casually as I carry my cell phone and wallet and don't have a lot of thought about any of them unless I am in a crowd, someone touches me unexpectedly or I need it. People around me tend to not make any deal about it I think mainly because I make no deal out of it. The more people see it, and see it not being any big deal to the carrier or the non-carry fellow citizens, the more accepted it becomes.
 

Grapeshot

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Orygunner wrote:
Anecdotal evidence may not make a solid argument, but it DOES sway people's opinions.
There are anecdotal comments and there is evidence. "Anecdotal evidence" is an oxymoran; nevertheless, I do agree and understand how and why people are motivated emotionally and manipulated thusly by the flavor of the message.

PT111 would seem to support OC and/or CC when it does not offend or bother anyone. I am pleased that he does not feel this way about the 1st Amendment.

His posting cautions us not to "show off with a gun or play with a gun" and thereby infers that some us may be doing just that - "dressing like gang bangers, bikers" and scaring "soccer moms." I don't know any gang bangers in the movement, I do know some bikers (one is a retired NC police chief) and soccer moms? well I can only speak to baseball and football moms and they were happy to see me at games. I know of no responsible citizen that plays with a gun.

As "anecdotal comment" I submit that on one occasion my sidearm prevented a physical altercation wherein 3 adult males were going to re-educate an umpire in the parking lot. I did not brandish as I was OCing. In the end my 911 call provided the best solution but had I been CCing there probably would have been personal injuries before it was stopped and I might have had to make difficult decisions.

The primary target of my diatribe is his fact that most people in S.C. know someone killed with a firearm; further, that by translation his "The rare goof-with-a-gun scenario won't work, people consider it more the rule than the exception" means people with guns are as a rule BGs. These are comments so parallel with the Brady bunch and MMM song and dance that it demanded a response. I choose documentable facts over anecdotal feelings.

Yata hey




 

PT111

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Orygunner... Very good points. You can throw statistics out the window when it happens to you. One robbery or murder will do more to enhance gun sales than 20 protests or one child being accidently killed will hurt gun rights more than anything else. One can try to brush anecdotal evidence aside but it affects the general public more than anything else. No one says it is reasonable but is effective.
 

PT111

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I don't care whether anyone OC's or CC's but but just stating that the public perception of carrying. If the rest didn't think that the public had a bad perception then no one would be trying to change the publics mind about it and educate everyone. I don know that everyone I went to school with, everyone in my daughter'shigh schooland everyone that I work with knows someone that was killed with a gun. May not have been a close personal friend but they knew who they were.
 

Sonora Rebel

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"anecdotal evidence" perpetrates the myths of gun registration. permits, license and all that other nonsense bandied about by the MSM and those so inculcated where none exists. The purpose is to keep the sheep... SHEEP. 'Anecdotal evidence' is just another form of disinformation and agitation propaganda.
 

Grapeshot

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Cyklopz wrote:
Grapeshot makes a good point, that the long term goal is to just simply be able to exercise our rights without it being a big deal on any front. I just wonder if slow and sure will win the race or just end up being a slow path to no-where? Sometimes I feel like wearing a shirt that says "No, I'm not a cop or security guard or in the military. Open carry of a firearm is legal in <insert state here>! Feel free to exercise your right to protect yourself and your family. If you don't exercise your rights you WILL lose them and may never get them back. When seconds count the police are just minutes away! Your right to feel uneasy around my gun does not over-ride my right to protect myself...or you." :)

OK, the t-shirt is a bit long winded but you get my point. ;)

Cy
T-shirts to promote the cause? Take a look at this Pa. site and a dinner in Mtn Jack's honor. One sample is shown below. http://tinyurl.com/5tdpx5

Yata hey
 

Orygunner

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Sonora Rebel wrote:
"anecdotal evidence" perpetrates the myths of gun registration. permits, license and all that other nonsense bandied about by the MSM and those so inculcated where none exists. The purpose is to keep the sheep... SHEEP. 'Anecdotal evidence' is just another form of disinformation and agitation propaganda.

Agreed that the anti-gunners use anecdotal evidence more than we do. It appeals to the emotional side of any argument, and the anti-gun side is certainly overwelmed with emotion. We certainly have overwelming statistics to back up OUR side of the argument. But I think if we ONLY use statistics and abandon anecdotal evidencealtogether, it's a bad plan. While statistics will certainly appeal to the logical side of people, and can certainly win our argument, there's some out there that statistics are useless on andthat CAN be swayed by some emotion.

People hear the 911 tape of the woman attacked and killed (screaming for help that typically didn't get there in time) in her own home (no gun involved). Then they listen to the another 911 tape of a woman that was armed, hysterical fear in her voice, screaming "HE'S COMING UP THE STAIRS!! PLEASE HURRY!" that saves her own life with a gun while he's choking the life out of he.Many of those people will be powerfully moved by this anecdotal evidence.

I like Oleg Volk's pictures & posters, he seems to balance the logic and emotion well in his work.

We could never abandon our facts, but used in conjunction with some emotion can make our side even more powerful.

...Orygunner...
 

shefearsnothing

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There's some that would have said OCing to a kids' soccer game was just calling unwanted attention that the OC movement didn't need,




Just replying to this part of the statement as I have seen it saida lot of places. I know you weren't personally saying this was the case but I would like to clear it up anyway. I OC'ed at LEAST a dozen times prior to being noticed that day. I feel this is a crucial fact in pointing out that I just OC all the time while going about my business and not bothering anyone. I believe the ONLY reason anyone noticed me that day was because of WHERE I was standing. It's my usual practice to stand behind all of the other parents for the game so I can see EVERYONE and also all over the park (better situational awareness IMO) but on that day I wanted good video of my daughter's game. That was it. Nothing more.

As far as the OP here, I DO think that OC dinners/lunches/get togethers are helpful when they are conducted appropriately. I have been to several and sure there were people who asked and were genuinely curious and not offended at all. I think they just saw us as another group of people getting together to enjoy each other's company. We just happened to have our firearms with us...several of us with them out in the open. Other then that we were just "regular people" like them. Isn't that what we'd like to convey? So yes, I think this is a very GOOD message to send.

In retrospect, I think hearing "soccer mom openly carrying" makes me sound like a more "normal" mom then if it had happened some other place. Everyone can relate to the term "soccer mom" and they have an image. Of course that image doesn't include a firearm but if we can get even some people to come around and realize that I am just another "soccer mom" who happens to carry then we've achieved something, haven't we? Am I making sense? (Yes there will be those who think "nope, crazyass with a gun. nothing normal about her" but there may be no hope for someone who is that close-minded.)
 

Orygunner

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Shefearsnothing, My opinion is that your actions and the events that transpired from it definitely did more good than harm for gun rights and OC. The more "normal" people that get involved with exercising their right to OC, the more it will become less sensational to the general public.

You're right, there's still going to be people that think we're nuts, but there are always going to be some closed-minded peoplelike that.

Good job, and keep it up!

...Gonna start calling you NSMWAG (Normal Soccer Mom With A Gun) ;)...
...Orygunner...
 

Grapeshot

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Thank you shefearsnothing for standing tall. Your conduct and testimony throughout the events as they were unfolding are testimates to your character. I'm proud to call you a friend.

Take note ladies and gentleman, this is how you change the public's perception. You do not look for trouble but you do not tuck your tail and slink away when you or another are wronged. You maintain your dignity, gather facts/information and strike to the very heart of the problem. Then go back to your normal routine and give a smile to everyone - just another soccer mom.

Yata hey
 

PT111

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shefearsnothing wrote:
There's some that would have said OCing to a kids' soccer game was just calling unwanted attention that the OC movement didn't need,




Just replying to this part of the statement as I have seen it saida lot of places. I know you weren't personally saying this was the case but I would like to clear it up anyway. I OC'ed at LEAST a dozen times prior to being noticed that day. I feel this is a crucial fact in pointing out that I just OC all the time while going about my business and not bothering anyone. I believe the ONLY reason anyone noticed me that day was because of WHERE I was standing. It's my usual practice to stand behind all of the other parents for the game so I can see EVERYONE and also all over the park (better situational awareness IMO) but on that day I wanted good video of my daughter's game. That was it. Nothing more.

As far as the OP here, I DO think that OC dinners/lunches/get togethers are helpful when they are conducted appropriately. I have been to several and sure there were people who asked and were genuinely curious and not offended at all. I think they just saw us as another group of people getting together to enjoy each other's company. We just happened to have our firearms with us...several of us with them out in the open. Other then that we were just "regular people" like them. Isn't that what we'd like to convey? So yes, I think this is a very GOOD message to send.

In retrospect, I think hearing "soccer mom openly carrying" makes me sound like a more "normal" mom then if it had happened some other place. Everyone can relate to the term "soccer mom" and they have an image. Of course that image doesn't include a firearm but if we can get even some people to come around and realize that I am just another "soccer mom" who happens to carry then we've achieved something, haven't we? Am I making sense? (Yes there will be those who think "nope, crazyass with a gun. nothing normal about her" but there may be no hope for someone who is that close-minded.)
I want you to note what I posted in my first post in this thread.
However in the case of the soccer mom in PA can go a long way to educate the public.
I have no problems at all with your OC at the soccer game and think that what you did was point out that lots of "normal" people, as you call them. carry guns. Too many people have the idea of "gun nuts" andthe you can convince people that it is a "normal" thing the better it is for everyone. My whole point it to convince the average person that it is OK to carry a gun and it won't shoot someone while still in the holster. Too many people look at the gun as a killerrather than the person pulling the trigger.
 

Orygunner

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Grapeshot wrote:
Thank you shefearsnothing for standing tall. Your conduct and testimony throughout the events as they were unfolding are testimates to your character. I'm proud to call you a friend.

Take note ladies and gentleman, this is how you change the public's perception. You do not look for trouble but you do not tuck your tail and slink away when you or another are wronged. You maintain your dignity, gather facts/information and strike to the very heart of the problem. Then go back to your normal routine and give a smile to everyone - just another soccer mom.

Yata hey
+1 Grapeshot!
 

Alwayspacking

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Orygunner wrote:
So what's the problem? I think the majority of the public believes it's OK for Law-Abiding people to carry a gun for protection at least some of the time, otherwise I don't think we'd have most of the states licensing CCW in one form or another.

I think Open Carry has much less public support, because of some of the blatently ignorant ideas out there. "Guns don't belong around kids!" "Guys Open Carry just because it makes them feel like a MAN (or they're compensating)!" "What is this, the Wild West?" "OCers are just looking for attention!" "It's disrespectful of others!" "The OCer will get shot first!"

So what can we do to change these misconceptions?

...Orygunner...

Just keep on OCing...

I do not care what people may think about me when I OC. If they ask me about OC I will give them info on OC. If they do not like it, and I am not in their POB, then I could not care less what they think.

With OC we can not change the world, there will always be someone against it, If you can't change their mind on it, I can't change their mind on it so let just move on.
 

shefearsnothing

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PT111, I hope you don't think I was being defensive at all. I get a nice warm feeling here (at this site). What you're saying (about how "normal people carry") is exactly the case with me. I OC everywhere (very few exceptions) and it's just like putting on my watch. I don't go out of my way to expose my firearm or OC nor do I go out of my way to conceal it. I don't see any reason to hide it. I am just a normal person going about my day and minding my own business. If/when people notice it there is certainly an educational value in that. Well, there has been every time it has happened with me anyway. Even this latest "encounter" with the soccer league has been educational. I am sure it pissed a lot of people off (ok I know it did) and that wasn't the intent at all but stepping back and looking at the positive...a LOT of people got an education. Some of them even LIKE what they learned and have been receptive to it. So yeah, we're definitely making a difference. :cool: We're even seen in a positive light by those who have their eyes open IMO. :lol:
 

PT111

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shefearsnothing - I did not take it as defensive at all. My point that does not go ever well with many people is that you should act like it is a normal activity and it should be. It is similar to the coach of a winning football team telling his players to act like you have been there before. In your case you it was a normal everyday thing which I really appreciate. If one believes that OC is a right and there is nothing wrong with it then why go out of the way to show people that you are carrying. If carrying a gun is supposed to be a natural activity then why worry about it. I have a good friend that it a multi-millionaire but to talk with him you would never know it unless you start to pick up on some clues. He is one of the best liked people I know. Another friend tells about how much money he has and how much he spends but he is nowhere close to the first one and people make fun of him all the time.

In your case there are some that are going to think you are crazy but there are some that are going to say 'Wow I didn't know I could do that". You aren't going to change the minds of the ones that think you are crazy but the others are going to think about it and get educated. We had a CWP instructor speak to ourmen's group at churcha few months back. I mentioned that I had a CWP and the speaker said that many people would not admit to having one due to fear of reprisal. However afterwards several wanted to talk some more about how to get theirs and I got no negative comments.
 

JBURGII

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God bless the soccer moms.. :) My g/f is not real fond of any kind of firearm. Yet her mother who just moved in next door goes to the gun shop with me! Hehe.. we are shopping for her a target pistol.. I am working on getting her into something large enough to act as a PDW as well..

When I carry, I act as if my sidearm is another belt buckle.. it is just another piece of my wardrobe. I don't "Barney Fife" with it.. not looking to garner any attention.

Making it a part of everyday life is a great way to introduce it to the general population.. I only worry that we won't be able to take our time if the current political, economic and global climate keeps escalating to the point where we are pushed to act more than just be activists..

Hope everyone has a great day! J
 

Bubba Ron

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Open Carry is the purest from of the Second Amendment.

It does not (in Virginia) require permission like Concealed Carry.

As far as how many people I know who have been killed via a gun - a whole LOT LESS than those that have been killed via an automobile - should we stop driving too?
 

PT111

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Bubba Ron wrote:
Open Carry is the purest from of the Second Amendment.

It does not (in Virginia) require permission like Concealed Carry.

As far as how many people I know who have been killed via a gun - a whole LOT LESS than those that have been killed via an automobile - should we stop driving too?
Well I don't think the fellows who wrote the Constitution rode around in automobiles or they would probably have included something about that inthe Bill of Rights. Since everyone is always talking about what they did and thought maybe we should travel like they did. It would be a lot safer. :cool: I know a lot more people that ride in automobiles than carry guns so I would suspect that more would be killed by automobiles than guns. However I don't think that was the case back in 1796. I did have a Great-Great-Uncle that was killed in a horse and buggy accident back in the late 1800's.:X
 

Bubba Ron

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PT111 wrote:
Well I don't think the fellows who wrote the Constitution rode around in automobiles or they would probably have included something about that inthe Bill of Rights. Since everyone is always talking about what they did and thought maybe we should travel like they did. It would be a lot safer. :cool: I know a lot more people that ride in automobiles than carry guns so I would suspect that more would be killed by automobiles than guns. However I don't think that was the case back in 1796. I did have a Great-Great-Uncle that was killed in a horse and buggy accident back in the late 1800's.:X
Wow - my post had nothing to do with the "fellows who wrote the Constitution" - or your Great-Great-Uncle. Are you the only person on this site that can post an opinion?
 
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