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Thread: How can we get Open Carrying more widely accepted?

  1. #26
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    "anecdotal evidence" perpetrates the myths of gun registration. permits, license and all that other nonsense bandied about by the MSM and those so inculcated where none exists. The purpose is to keep the sheep... SHEEP. 'Anecdotal evidence' is just another form of disinformation and agitation propaganda.

  2. #27
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    Cyklopz wrote:
    Grapeshot makes a good point, that the long term goal is to just simply be able to exercise our rights without it being a big deal on any front. I just wonder if slow and sure will win the race or just end up being a slow path to no-where? Sometimes I feel like wearing a shirt that says "No, I'm not a cop or security guard or in the military. Open carry of a firearm is legal in <insert state here>! Feel free to exercise your right to protect yourself and your family. If you don't exercise your rights you WILL lose them and may never get them back. When seconds count the police are just minutes away! Your right to feel uneasy around my gun does not over-ride my right to protect myself...or you."

    OK, the t-shirt is a bit long winded but you get my point.

    Cy
    T-shirts to promote the cause? Take a look at this Pa. site and a dinner in Mtn Jack's honor. One sample is shown below. http://tinyurl.com/5tdpx5

    Yata hey

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

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  3. #28
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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    "anecdotal evidence" perpetrates the myths of gun registration. permits, license and all that other nonsense bandied about by the MSM and those so inculcated where none exists. The purpose is to keep the sheep... SHEEP. 'Anecdotal evidence' is just another form of disinformation and agitation propaganda.
    Agreed that the anti-gunners use anecdotal evidence more than we do. It appeals to the emotional side of any argument, and the anti-gun side is certainly overwelmed with emotion. We certainly have overwelming statistics to back up OUR side of the argument. But I think if we ONLY use statistics and abandon anecdotal evidencealtogether, it's a bad plan. While statistics will certainly appeal to the logical side of people, and can certainly win our argument, there's some out there that statistics are useless on andthat CAN be swayed by some emotion.

    People hear the 911 tape of the woman attacked and killed (screaming for help that typically didn't get there in time) in her own home (no gun involved). Then they listen to the another 911 tape of a woman that was armed, hysterical fear in her voice, screaming "HE'S COMING UP THE STAIRS!! PLEASE HURRY!" that saves her own life with a gun while he's choking the life out of he.Many of those people will be powerfully moved by this anecdotal evidence.

    I like Oleg Volk's pictures & posters, he seems to balance the logic and emotion well in his work.

    We could never abandon our facts, but used in conjunction with some emotion can make our side even more powerful.

    ...Orygunner...

  4. #29
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    There's some that would have said OCing to a kids' soccer game was just calling unwanted attention that the OC movement didn't need,



    Just replying to this part of the statement as I have seen it saida lot of places. I know you weren't personally saying this was the case but I would like to clear it up anyway. I OC'ed at LEAST a dozen times prior to being noticed that day. I feel this is a crucial fact in pointing out that I just OC all the time while going about my business and not bothering anyone. I believe the ONLY reason anyone noticed me that day was because of WHERE I was standing. It's my usual practice to stand behind all of the other parents for the game so I can see EVERYONE and also all over the park (better situational awareness IMO) but on that day I wanted good video of my daughter's game. That was it. Nothing more.

    As far as the OP here, I DO think that OC dinners/lunches/get togethers are helpful when they are conducted appropriately. I have been to several and sure there were people who asked and were genuinely curious and not offended at all. I think they just saw us as another group of people getting together to enjoy each other's company. We just happened to have our firearms with us...several of us with them out in the open. Other then that we were just "regular people" like them. Isn't that what we'd like to convey? So yes, I think this is a very GOOD message to send.

    In retrospect, I think hearing "soccer mom openly carrying" makes me sound like a more "normal" mom then if it had happened some other place. Everyone can relate to the term "soccer mom" and they have an image. Of course that image doesn't include a firearm but if we can get even some people to come around and realize that I am just another "soccer mom" who happens to carry then we've achieved something, haven't we? Am I making sense? (Yes there will be those who think "nope, crazyass with a gun. nothing normal about her" but there may be no hope for someone who is that close-minded.)

  5. #30
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    Shefearsnothing, My opinion is that your actions and the events that transpired from it definitely did more good than harm for gun rights and OC. The more "normal" people that get involved with exercising their right to OC, the more it will become less sensational to the general public.

    You're right, there's still going to be people that think we're nuts, but there are always going to be some closed-minded peoplelike that.

    Good job, and keep it up!

    ...Gonna start calling you NSMWAG (Normal Soccer Mom With A Gun) ...
    ...Orygunner...

  6. #31
    Super Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Thank you shefearsnothing for standing tall. Your conduct and testimony throughout the events as they were unfolding are testimates to your character. I'm proud to call you a friend.

    Take note ladies and gentleman, this is how you change the public's perception. You do not look for trouble but you do not tuck your tail and slink away when you or another are wronged. You maintain your dignity, gather facts/information and strike to the very heart of the problem. Then go back to your normal routine and give a smile to everyone - just another soccer mom.

    Yata hey
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

  7. #32
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    shefearsnothing wrote:
    There's some that would have said OCing to a kids' soccer game was just calling unwanted attention that the OC movement didn't need,



    Just replying to this part of the statement as I have seen it saida lot of places. I know you weren't personally saying this was the case but I would like to clear it up anyway. I OC'ed at LEAST a dozen times prior to being noticed that day. I feel this is a crucial fact in pointing out that I just OC all the time while going about my business and not bothering anyone. I believe the ONLY reason anyone noticed me that day was because of WHERE I was standing. It's my usual practice to stand behind all of the other parents for the game so I can see EVERYONE and also all over the park (better situational awareness IMO) but on that day I wanted good video of my daughter's game. That was it. Nothing more.

    As far as the OP here, I DO think that OC dinners/lunches/get togethers are helpful when they are conducted appropriately. I have been to several and sure there were people who asked and were genuinely curious and not offended at all. I think they just saw us as another group of people getting together to enjoy each other's company. We just happened to have our firearms with us...several of us with them out in the open. Other then that we were just "regular people" like them. Isn't that what we'd like to convey? So yes, I think this is a very GOOD message to send.

    In retrospect, I think hearing "soccer mom openly carrying" makes me sound like a more "normal" mom then if it had happened some other place. Everyone can relate to the term "soccer mom" and they have an image. Of course that image doesn't include a firearm but if we can get even some people to come around and realize that I am just another "soccer mom" who happens to carry then we've achieved something, haven't we? Am I making sense? (Yes there will be those who think "nope, crazyass with a gun. nothing normal about her" but there may be no hope for someone who is that close-minded.)
    I want you to note what I posted in my first post in this thread.
    However in the case of the soccer mom in PA can go a long way to educate the public.
    I have no problems at all with your OC at the soccer game and think that what you did was point out that lots of "normal" people, as you call them. carry guns. Too many people have the idea of "gun nuts" andthe you can convince people that it is a "normal" thing the better it is for everyone. My whole point it to convince the average person that it is OK to carry a gun and it won't shoot someone while still in the holster. Too many people look at the gun as a killerrather than the person pulling the trigger.

  8. #33
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Thank you shefearsnothing for standing tall. Your conduct and testimony throughout the events as they were unfolding are testimates to your character. I'm proud to call you a friend.

    Take note ladies and gentleman, this is how you change the public's perception. You do not look for trouble but you do not tuck your tail and slink away when you or another are wronged. You maintain your dignity, gather facts/information and strike to the very heart of the problem. Then go back to your normal routine and give a smile to everyone - just another soccer mom.

    Yata hey
    +1 Grapeshot!

  9. #34
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    Orygunner wrote:
    So what's the problem? I think the majority of the public believes it's OK for Law-Abiding people to carry a gun for protection at least some of the time, otherwise I don't think we'd have most of the states licensing CCW in one form or another.

    I think Open Carry has much less public support, because of some of the blatently ignorant ideas out there. "Guns don't belong around kids!" "Guys Open Carry just because it makes them feel like a MAN (or they're compensating)!" "What is this, the Wild West?" "OCers are just looking for attention!" "It's disrespectful of others!" "The OCer will get shot first!"

    So what can we do to change these misconceptions?

    ...Orygunner...
    Just keep on OCing...

    I do not care what people may think about me when I OC. If they ask me about OC I will give them info on OC. If they do not like it, and I am not in their POB, then I could not care less what they think.

    With OC we can not change the world, there will always be someone against it, If you can't change their mind on it, I can't change their mind on it so let just move on.

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    PT111, I hope you don't think I was being defensive at all. I get a nice warm feeling here (at this site). What you're saying (about how "normal people carry") is exactly the case with me. I OC everywhere (very few exceptions) and it's just like putting on my watch. I don't go out of my way to expose my firearm or OC nor do I go out of my way to conceal it. I don't see any reason to hide it. I am just a normal person going about my day and minding my own business. If/when people notice it there is certainly an educational value in that. Well, there has been every time it has happened with me anyway. Even this latest "encounter" with the soccer league has been educational. I am sure it pissed a lot of people off (ok I know it did) and that wasn't the intent at all but stepping back and looking at the positive...a LOT of people got an education. Some of them even LIKE what they learned and have been receptive to it. So yeah, we're definitely making a difference. We're even seen in a positive light by those who have their eyes open IMO.

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    shefearsnothing - I did not take it as defensive at all. My point that does not go ever well with many people is that you should act like it is a normal activity and it should be. It is similar to the coach of a winning football team telling his players to act like you have been there before. In your case you it was a normal everyday thing which I really appreciate. If one believes that OC is a right and there is nothing wrong with it then why go out of the way to show people that you are carrying. If carrying a gun is supposed to be a natural activity then why worry about it. I have a good friend that it a multi-millionaire but to talk with him you would never know it unless you start to pick up on some clues. He is one of the best liked people I know. Another friend tells about how much money he has and how much he spends but he is nowhere close to the first one and people make fun of him all the time.

    In your case there are some that are going to think you are crazy but there are some that are going to say 'Wow I didn't know I could do that". You aren't going to change the minds of the ones that think you are crazy but the others are going to think about it and get educated. We had a CWP instructor speak to ourmen's group at churcha few months back. I mentioned that I had a CWP and the speaker said that many people would not admit to having one due to fear of reprisal. However afterwards several wanted to talk some more about how to get theirs and I got no negative comments.

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    God bless the soccer moms.. My g/f is not real fond of any kind of firearm. Yet her mother who just moved in next door goes to the gun shop with me! Hehe.. we are shopping for her a target pistol.. I am working on getting her into something large enough to act as a PDW as well..

    When I carry, I act as if my sidearm is another belt buckle.. it is just another piece of my wardrobe. I don't "Barney Fife" with it.. not looking to garner any attention.

    Making it a part of everyday life is a great way to introduce it to the general population.. I only worry that we won't be able to take our time if the current political, economic and global climate keeps escalating to the point where we are pushed to act more than just be activists..

    Hope everyone has a great day! J

  13. #38
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    Open Carry is the purest from of the Second Amendment.

    It does not (in Virginia) require permission like Concealed Carry.

    As far as how many people I know who have been killed via a gun - a whole LOT LESS than those that have been killed via an automobile - should we stop driving too?

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    Bubba Ron wrote:
    Open Carry is the purest from of the Second Amendment.

    It does not (in Virginia) require permission like Concealed Carry.

    As far as how many people I know who have been killed via a gun - a whole LOT LESS than those that have been killed via an automobile - should we stop driving too?
    Well I don't think the fellows who wrote the Constitution rode around in automobiles or they would probably have included something about that inthe Bill of Rights. Since everyone is always talking about what they did and thought maybe we should travel like they did. It would be a lot safer. I know a lot more people that ride in automobiles than carry guns so I would suspect that more would be killed by automobiles than guns. However I don't think that was the case back in 1796. I did have a Great-Great-Uncle that was killed in a horse and buggy accident back in the late 1800's.:X

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    PT111 wrote:
    Well I don't think the fellows who wrote the Constitution rode around in automobiles or they would probably have included something about that inthe Bill of Rights. Since everyone is always talking about what they did and thought maybe we should travel like they did. It would be a lot safer. I know a lot more people that ride in automobiles than carry guns so I would suspect that more would be killed by automobiles than guns. However I don't think that was the case back in 1796. I did have a Great-Great-Uncle that was killed in a horse and buggy accident back in the late 1800's.:X
    Wow - my post had nothing to do with the "fellows who wrote the Constitution" - or your Great-Great-Uncle. Are you the only person on this site that can post an opinion?

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    Bubba Ron wrote:
    PT111 wrote:
    Well I don't think the fellows who wrote the Constitution rode around in automobiles or they would probably have included something about that inthe Bill of Rights. Since everyone is always talking about what they did and thought maybe we should travel like they did. It would be a lot safer. I know a lot more people that ride in automobiles than carry guns so I would suspect that more would be killed by automobiles than guns. However I don't think that was the case back in 1796. I did have a Great-Great-Uncle that was killed in a horse and buggy accident back in the late 1800's.:X
    Wow - my post had nothing to do with the "fellows who wrote the Constitution" - or your Great-Great-Uncle. Are you the only person on this site that can post an opinion?
    Opinions are like a certain part of the body and everyone is welcome to theirs. You are the one who made the comparision of guns to automobiles. I was merely pointing out that as dangerous as automobiles are ther Founding Fathers would probably have made some mention of them in the Constitution if they had existed back then. However as dangerous as automobiles are the perfered mode of transportation for the Founding Fathers was not without peril demonstrated by my actual family history. The dangers of travel are not something new and has always existed so rather than banning automobiles maybe we should ban travel. There was a recent thread on here about a woman who met her death while hiking so even walking is not without danger.

    To try to ban automobiles or guns is an exercise in futility just as the hope to complete eliminate the dangers associated with either one. However we can possibly reduce the dangers associated with both.

  17. #42
    Super Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Thread title: How can we get Open Carrying more widely accepted?

    Work with your groups like OCDO, VCDL and the like to petition, lobby legislators, support candidates for office, vote and make our wishes known.

    Work to get other gun related groups i.e. hunters, competition shooters, reinactors
    et cetera into the fold of supporters. Power in numbers and a unified front.

    Offer your talent and time, donate as you are able.

    Organize and/or attend meet-ups, dinners, community service projects and the like.

    Be a leader or a follower but get involved, stay involved.

    Take a newbie to the range. Teach a youngster to shoot.

    Smile a lot.

    Yata hey
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

  18. #43
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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Only way to promote OC is to "OC". It's like wearin' pants... Just do it!
    QFT-

    though I think that there is nothing wrong with OC as a statement, and exercise of free speech. While we can say and do what we want, we are the ambassadors of the Second Amendment and should conduct ourselves in a manner that would make our forefathers proud.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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    ConditionThree wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Only way to promote OC is to "OC". It's like wearin' pants... Just do it!
    QFT-

    though I think that there is nothing wrong with OC as a statement, and exercise of free speech. While we can say and do what we want, we are the ambassadors of the Second Amendment and should conduct ourselves in a manner that would make our forefathers proud.
    That's it. That's my calling. I'm gonna make my forefathers proud and go shoot me some RedCoats! :celebrate

    OK. Just kidding. But I get your point, and agree with it. However, there is some dissention as to what a "good" ambassador of the 2A and OC is.

    I think most of the people I've seen post on OCDO seem to believe anyone who wants to carry,should carry. I've seen others that seem to have the idea you have to look respectable, dress nice, don't have purple hairand black nail polish, not OC a Desert Eagle, or not OC in a tactical thigh holster, or you're causing OCers a bad rap and will "hurt" the movement.

    Good thing it's a RIGHT to OC. That means ANYONE can exercise it, despite their appearance, and in spite of the attitudes of some who claim to be Pro-OC (but not OC for everyone).

    I don't think a little diversity and some odd people OCing can hurt the movement, as long as they're responsible, safe, and able to keep a reasonably cool head.

    ...Now where's them RedCoats ...
    ...Orygunner...

  20. #45
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    Orygunner wrote:
    ...Now where's them RedCoats ...
    ...Orygunner...
    The man THAT close to Eugene has to ask this question?

    -adamsesq (another Oregon Gunner)

  21. #46
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    anecdotal evidence" perpetrates the myths of gun registration. permits, license and all that other nonsense bandied about by the MSM and those so inculcated where none exists.* The purpose is to keep the sheep... SHEEP.* 'Anecdotal evidence' is just another form of disinformation and agitation propaganda.
    I think you meant "perpetuates".
    Quote Originally Posted by g21sfpistol View Post
    ill draw just as fast or faster than someone with a OC holster.

  22. #47
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Thread title: How can we get Open Carrying more widely accepted?

    Work with your groups like OCDO, VCDL and the like to petition, lobby legislators, support candidates for office, vote and make our wishes known.

    Work to get other gun related groups i.e. hunters, competition shooters, reinactors et cetera into the fold of supporters. Power in numbers and a unified front.

    Offer your talent and time, donate as you are able.

    Organize and/or attend meet-ups, dinners, community service projects and the like.

    Be a leader or a follower but get involved, stay involved.

    Take a newbie to the range. Teach a youngster to shoot.

    Smile a lot.

    Yata hey
    +1

  23. #48
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    What about programs like Appleseed? www.appleseedinfo.com

    Not only open carry but getting people involved in all aspects of firearms..

    J

  24. #49
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    How to get OC a bit more "socially acceptable" when it becomes available?

    Well, when we first started the Federal Flight Deck Officer program (FFDO) where commecial airline pilots were issued duty weapons (after appropriate training) the initial year or so was a bit testy with many individuals as the "normal operations" had been changed with the introduction of a weapon for the pilot on duty.

    As time went on, most of the non-carrying pilots got used to the sight of the H&K secured in a holster and everbody went about their business. Now it's a common sight and nobody really thinks twice about it.

    It's NORMAL now. That's the key.

    There is or will be a period of time where unarmed citizens are initially shocked, then curious as to why that guy on the Harley with his wife is carrying a PPK on his belt. Pretty soon they've seen the same guy 10 times at the diner, the gas station and at Home Depot. By then it's merely an interesting thing to tell his neighbors "up north" about.

    OK, true story......

    Back when I was allowed to take the TV station helicopter pretty much anywhere I wanted, my girlfriend and I would land at a suburban Denny's and have lunch or dinner from time to time. The very first time we did it, the local city brought out two fire engines, paramedics, several police and perhaps a dog or two because they didn't know what was happening. Once it was explained that we didn't crash or anything they slowly went away. The next time in, only one fire engine kind of idled on by on the street. The third time one police car cruised on past. After that, nobody looked twice and we could eat any meal at any time with no problems.

    The bottom line? Once people see the OC and get used to it, there shouldn't be any more reasons to be stopped and checked because of ignorance on the part of the public and the local law enforcement people.

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