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Thread: The Oklahoman: "Gun association seeks right to 'bare' arms in Oklahoma"

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    Unfortunately the article did not include the link to the online petition to restore the righ to open carry in Oklahoma at http://www.petitiononline.com/oc4ok/petition.html

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    AP Version: http://www.kten.com/Global/story.asp?S=9205046

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    http://newsok.com/gun-association-se...rticle/3313439

    Gun association seeks right to 'bare' arms in Oklahoma
    Capitol: Group opposes six states’ requirements to conceal weapons

    Comments 14

    BY JOHN GREINER
    Published: October 20, 2008



    Donald Ohse is part of an online effort to obtain signatures from supporters urging legislators to pass a law allowing citizens to openly carry guns. By jim beckel, the oklahoman

    To at least one Midwest City man, openly carrying a gun is a matter of safety for him and his family.



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    Fears of shoot-outs like those of the Old West are just fear-mongering, he said.
    Donald Ohse is part of a movement to change laws in several states, including Oklahoma, so people can openly carry their weapons.
    This movement is an online drive to get enough signatures of like-minded people to influence legislators to pass open carry laws. He said he’s gotten 1,300 signatures.
    Ohse already is licensed under Oklahoma law to carry a concealed weapon.
    But Ohse thinks openly carrying his pistol would be better and safer for him and others.
    If he or his family were in danger, it would be a lot easier if he could quickly reach his gun instead of having it hidden in his coat and having to pull it from his pocket, he said.
    "It’s not like you could see something happening and, say, ‘Hey, give me a moment,’” he said. "The quicker the access, the better in a life-or-death situation.”
    Being able to openly carry his gun would have helped him when someone once tried to run over him following an accident, Ohse said.
    Ohse saw a car accident and went to help. One driver tried to leave the scene of the crash.
    Ohse was behind the car writing down the tag number when the driver backed up.
    The driver stopped when he saw Ohse fumble in his coat and pull out a gun, Ohse said.

    When the movement began
    In 2004 in Virginia, Mike Stollenwerk and John Pierce started OpenCarry.org to push for the right to carry guns openly.

    The Web site now has about 10,000 registered members, said Stollenwerk, a retired Army lieutenant colonel.
    Stollenwerk and Pierce determined that at least six states ban openly carrying a gun: Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas, Florida, South Carolina and New York.
    This movement includes only handguns, which Stollenwerk calls "the quintessential self-defense weapon.”
    The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence lists gun laws of each state. But Chad Ramsey, a senior associate director of the Brady Group, said it is difficult to determine which states allow open carry.
    But Ramsey said Stollenwerk appears to be correct about the six states that ban openly carrying firearms.

    Law enforcement objections
    Officials with two Oklahoma law enforcement associations said they don’t like the idea of people openly carrying guns.

    "I would guess that very few would want to go back to the early west appearance where people carried guns strapped down on their hip,” said Ken McNair, a retired police officer and executive director of the Oklahoma Sheriffs’ Association.
    Jim Cox, executive director of the Oklahoma Association of Chiefs of Police, said he doesn’t think that openly carrying a gun accomplishes very much.
    A concealed weapon gives a person the element of surprise, he said.
    "The bad guys aren’t going to be openly carrying,” said Cox, a former police officer and police chief in Midwest City.

    Right to choose
    Stollenwerk said he thinks that letting people carry guns openly will let someone with bad intentions know that you are armed.

    "While I understand that sometimes it is a tactical advantage to be concealed, sometimes it might be the other way,” he said. "Everybody should have the right to choose.”



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    Stollenwerk said he thinks that letting people carry guns openly will let someone with bad intentions know that you are armed.

    "While I understand that sometimes it is a tactical advantage to be concealed, sometimes it might be the other way,” he said. "Everybody should have the right to choose.”

    The advantage to concealed carry may be tactical. The advantage to open carry is strategic!

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Stollenwerk said he thinks that letting people carry guns openly will let someone with bad intentions know that you are armed.

    "While I understand that sometimes it is a tactical advantage to be concealed, sometimes it might be the other way,” he said. "Everybody should have the right to choose.”

    The advantage to concealed carry may be tactical. The advantage to open carry is strategic!
    Nah, both CC and OC are tactical level concepts.

    Carry is the strategic context.

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    I can tell you that OCing in a place of business gives a clear psychological "we will not submit" message to people contemplating robbery or other mayhem. That and it improves my response time having it "at the ready" (my favorite phrase from the old Ohio carry/transport law)if it does come to that. We've had zero problems at the shop since I've been here, and I don't have a permit. So, I, for one, am not automatically sold on this supposed "tactical advantage" of concealed carry. It depends on the situation.

    -ljp

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    As I've told supporters of OC and CC... which one I use depends on the circumstances in question. There is no "one answer to rule them all" when it comes to carrying... except perhaps actually carrying.

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    To OC or CC:

    Weather is my primary consideration - not whether or not.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    What a pleasant surprise to open the Daily Oklahoman and see an Open Carry article headlining.

    Went to this website, and very quickly found the link to the petition.

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    Just to set the record straight. I did tell the reports that Russell Cook Is the one that started the petition and when I seen that there was petition I email Mr. Cook and asked what I could do to help and he state that I could just starting to get the word out. And after about sending over 100 email we got a bite.
    The Oklahoman Called me and asked Who, Why, When, How type of stuff then.

    I just want to make it clear that Russell Cook Started the petition and hat I signed it and asked how I could help.

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    Donaldo wrote:
    Just to set the record straight. I did tell the reports that Russell Cook Is the one that started the petition and when I seen that there was petition I email Mr. Cook and asked what I could do to help and he state that I could just starting to get the word out. And after about sending over 100 email we got a bite.
    The Oklahoman Called me and asked Who, Why, When, How type of stuff then.

    I just want to make it clear that Russell Cook Started the petition and hat I signed it and asked how I could help.
    Thanks, great work - it takes more than one "Joe the Gun Owner" to get these shows on the road!

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    It is sad to once again see the leaders of large LEO organizations leading the opposition to some form of citizen carry.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Donaldo wrote:
    Just to set the record straight. I did tell the reports that Russell Cook Is the one that started the petition and when I seen that there was petition I email Mr. Cook and asked what I could do to help and he state that I could just starting to get the word out. And after about sending over 100 email we got a bite.
    The Oklahoman Called me and asked Who, Why, When, How type of stuff then.

    I just want to make it clear that Russell Cook Started the petition and hat I signed it and asked how I could help.
    Great job! Thanks for the help! I sent out dozens of emails to tv, radio, and newspapers around the state, and zero response. You're getting results! Got any friends?

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    deepdiver wrote:
    It is sad to once again see the leaders of large LEO organizations leading the opposition to some form of citizen carry.
    On the bright side, consider that they did this in large part when concealed carry was gaining momentum.

    Now look at how they talk about concealed carry. The LEO in the article recognizes it as both lawful and beneficial for citizens.

    In time, I think they will come to see open carry in the same way, once it becomes more common and less other-worldly.

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    JSK333 wrote:
    deepdiver wrote:
    It is sad to once again see the leaders of large LEO organizations leading the opposition to some form of citizen carry.
    On the bright side, consider that they did this in large part when concealed carry was gaining momentum.

    Now look at how they talk about concealed carry. The LEO in the article recognizes it as both lawful and beneficial for citizens.

    In time, I think they will come to see open carry in the same way, once it becomes more common and less other-worldly.
    That is an excellent point. That is what we heard from LEO leadership most places when CC started gaining momentum as a movement state to state. However, what we found out also was that while the LEO brass was bad mouthing CC, the majority of the LEOs on the street most places were pro citizen CC. I have yet to see any polling or research data as to street LEOs opinion on OC. I suspect that it is not as positive as it was for CC but I hope I am wrong.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    The discussion should never be "OC vs CC"; it should always be "Right Upheld vs Right Denied". I don't care how anyone else carries, as long as he or she is willing and prepared to use it in a lawful and responsible manner.

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    KSBI channel 52 at 5

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    Donaldo wrote:
    KSBI channel 52 at 5
    Get video link or utube it.

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    News Story....

    Video will also will be on youtube soon

    She did say opencarry.org at the end but it got cut off there at the end..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nygv2mVtEMM


    http://www.okcfox.com/players/news/t...vid_1648.shtml

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    Story Mikelinked above:


    Openly Carrying Guns In Public Debate




    Wednesday, October 22, 2008; Posted: 4:25 p.m. (CDT)

    Donald Ohse has a vision.

    He says, "Currently, we have 1,970 signatures. My personal goal is at least 5,000 signatures."

    The Midwest City man is working to gather signatures for a petition to present to lawmakers.

    "I want a choice to either be able to have it out in the open or have it concealed," says Ohse.

    Jim Cox is with the Oklahoma Association of Chiefs of Police. Cox says, "No, I don't think it's a good idea."

    He believes carrying weapons openly could be dangerous.

    "If I know that you have it, you have no advantage over me," says Cox. "I have that advantage."

    He's worried it's those criminals who would try to take advantage.

    He says, "The main thing is consider those circumstances."

    Meanwhile, it's something Ohse says he has considered especially since he has a 4-year-old daughter.

    Ohse says, "I want people to know that most criminals aren't going to have a weapon out in the open because they don't want to draw attention to themselves."

    He admits there are benefits to both. But he still believes, those who carry guns should ultimately have the choice.

    "I feel it's a right that we have and if you don't exercise your rights, you're bound to lose them," says Ohse.

    There is also a web site that's pushing for the right to carry guns in public. It's called http://www.opencarry.org. On the web site, there is a link to the petition. It's located at http://www.petitiononline.com/oc4ok/petition.html.

    As for Jim Cox, he just wants to stress to people keep in mind the possible ramifications.



    My favorite line:
    Jim Cox is with the Oklahoma Association of Chiefs of Police. Cox says, "No, I don't think it's a good idea."

    He believes carrying weapons openly could be dangerous.

    "If I know that you have it, you have no advantage over me," says Cox. "I have that advantage."

    This is, of course, why police officers always open carry on duty. They are charitably giving the advantage to the criminal element. How noble!


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    When these LEO brass who oppose citizen OC call for a state law requiring all LEOs, on and off duty to carry CC 100% of the time THEN I'll buy their arguments against citizen OC.

    ETA: spelling correction
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    deepdiver wrote:
    When these LEO brass who oppose citizen OC call for a state law requiring all LEOs, on and off duty to carry CC 100% of the time THEN I'll buy their arguments against citizen OC.

    ETA: spelling correction
    Would not buy into it even in that unlikely event.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Officials with two Oklahoma law enforcement associations said they don’t like the idea of people openly carrying guns.

    The irony of a quote stating"they don’t like the idea of people openly carrying guns"
    coming from people openly carrying guns.

    Oh, it's a good thing.......for me. NOT YOU.

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    Superlite27 wrote:
    Officials with two Oklahoma law enforcement associations said they don’t like the idea of people openly carrying guns.

    The irony of a quote stating"they don’t like the idea of people openly carrying guns"
    coming from people openly carrying guns.

    Oh, it's a good thing.......for me. NOT YOU.
    ZACTLY. They're the Only Ones in the room professional enough...

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    Mike wrote:
    While I understand that sometimes it is a tactical advantage to be concealed, sometimes it might be the other way,” he said. "Everybody should have the right to choose.
    I find it a little disturbing that people advocating self-defense also often include 'the element of surprise' in their arguments.

    What's so self-defense about an ambush? 'The element of surprise' serves no purpose in prevention. Am I sneaking up on people? No, the BGs are the ones doing that. I want to look like an unapealing target. Concealing doesn't do that.

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    ixtow wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    While I understand that sometimes it is a tactical advantage to be concealed, sometimes it might be the other way,” he said. "Everybody should have the right to choose.
    I find it a little disturbing that people advocating self-defense also often include 'the element of surprise' in their arguments.

    What's so self-defense about an ambush? 'The element of surprise' serves no purpose in prevention. Am I sneaking up on people? No, the BGs are the ones doing that. I want to look like an unapealing target. Concealing doesn't do that.

    [/soapbox]
    Wish I had said it .... Good Job!!!!

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