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Thread: One handgun every 30 days

  1. #1
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    Hey everyone, new member here and just curious about the law mentioned in title.

    How exactly is the 30 day rule determined? I just bought a handgun online not too long ago and picked it up, etc. etc. Now I have that itch for another one and found a great price on a glock at the local shop.

    Technically, the day I paid for and bought the cz online meets the 30 day rule - but I didn't pick it up from the shop until maybe a week later plus shipping time etc. My question is: would the state consider the day I "purchased" the handgun the day I passed the NICS at the gun store?

    If that's the case then I'd have to wait at least another week before I could buy the glock, which would be very hard to endure .

    And for the record, I don't have my chp which is why I'm in this situation to begin with.

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    Lone Star Veteran Hokie's Avatar
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    Not sure when the timer starts but if you have your CHP you can buy more then one handgun per month
    "Capitalism and communism stand at opposite poles. Their essential difference is this: The communist, seeing the rich man and his fine home, says: 'No man should have so much.' The capitalist, seeing the same thing, says: 'All men should have as much.'"- Phelps Adams

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    The timer starts from the date you filled out the paperwork (when you picked it up from your local FFL).



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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Buy personal sales and don't worry about it.

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    Darn, I was hoping it wasn't going to be that way.

    yea, i'm working on that chp - just been too lazy

    thanks for the help


    just to be curious - what would happen if I went ahead and tried to buy it anyway and it failed me for the 30 day rule. Would the timer reset or could I just go back in after x days from the original 30 day count?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Hokie wrote:
    Not sure when the timer starts but if you have your CHP you can buy more then one handgun per month
    Now I never knew that was in there, but sure enough it is.

    § 18.2-308.2:2 P.2.h states:

    P. Except as provided in subdivisions 1, 2 and 3 of this subsection, it shall be unlawful for any person who is not a licensed firearms dealer to purchase more than one handgun within any 30-day period.

    2. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to:

    h. A person who holds a valid Virginia permit to carry a concealed handgun;
    Now the next question comes up... does reciprocity extend to this particular exemption?

    It sounds like it should:

    § 18.2-308 B.7 contains:

    For purposes of applying the reciprocity provisions of subsection P, any person granted the privilege to carry a concealed handgun pursuant to this subdivision, while carrying the proof of consultation and favorable review required, shall be deemed to have been issued a concealed handgun permit.
    I guess it would be up to the individual FFL to determine whether or not to accept your reciprocal CHP, and ultimately, up to the State Police computer authorization program to give the "go ahead" on the purchase.

    Anybody done this before? Purchased a second handgun within 30 days, using an out-of-state (but reciprocal) CHP?

    If the State Police database is not aware of your reciprocal CHP, I'm guessing it will deny a sub-30 day purchase. Or, perhaps there is a place on the form to enter this supplemental information.

    This may be an area worth investigation.

    TFred


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    I think when they run the check on you it will come back denied.

    I have bought more than 2 within 30 days of each other. I just laughed at the guy and said "Doesn't matter, but I'll check yes." Went home happy.:celebrate

    ETA: I have a chp, not out of state tho (just read that part of your ??).

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    foxcall wrote:
    Darn, I was hoping it wasn't going to be that way.

    yea, i'm working on that chp - just been too lazy

    thanks for the help


    just to be curious - what would happen if I went ahead and tried to buy it anyway and it failed me for the 30 day rule. Would the timer reset or could I just go back in after x days from the original 30 day count?
    My local FFL of choice is not a retailer, but he has offered to receive shipment and hold it for me until the 30 days rolled around. I would suppose that most Virginia retailers would make provision for this sort of situation.

    I wouldn't count on "fooling" the VSP program. At best it will say "no". At worst, you might get a flag set on your ID... (I know not of what I speak there... just saying...)

    TFred

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    Regular Member sccrref's Avatar
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    By the letter of the law you cited, it must be a valid VA permit. Just my .02

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    sccrref wrote:
    By the letter of the law you cited, it must be a valid VA permit. Just my .02
    Correct, but then the second section on reciprocity says "shall be deemed to have been issued a concealed handgun permit"...

    That's why I posted both sections. Seems like it ought to be simple enough to find someone who either has or has not been allowed to purchase a second gun on an out-of-state reciprocal CHP.

    Ha ha, I'm still within a 30 day window, what a great excuse!

    TFred

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    Regular Member sccrref's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    sccrref wrote:
    By the letter of the law you cited, it must be a valid VA permit. Just my .02
    Correct, but then the second section on reciprocity says "shall be deemed to have been issued a concealed handgun permit"...

    That's why I posted both sections. Seems like it ought to be simple enough to find someone who either has or has not been allowed to purchase a second gun on an out-of-state reciprocal CHP.

    Ha ha, I'm still within a 30 day window, what a great excuse!

    TFred
    IANAL, but the code you cited, § 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry., as I read it does not deal with the purchase of a firearm only what the title says. JMHO Having said that, you could always give it a shot, the worst that should happen is that you are denied.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    sccrref wrote:
    TFred wrote:
    sccrref wrote:
    By the letter of the law you cited, it must be a valid VA permit. Just my .02
    Correct, but then the second section on reciprocity says "shall be deemed to have been issued a concealed handgun permit"...

    That's why I posted both sections. Seems like it ought to be simple enough to find someone who either has or has not been allowed to purchase a second gun on an out-of-state reciprocal CHP.

    Ha ha, I'm still within a 30 day window, what a great excuse!

    TFred
    IANAL, but the code you cited, § 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry., as I read it does not deal with the purchase of a firearm only what the title says. JMHO Having said that, you could always give it a shot, the worst that should happen is that you are denied.
    And neither am I... although I must say that since I have been recently following this open records issue with regard to CHP, I am rather enjoying it. I am a technical person by nature and by training. Studying and trying to understand legislation provides a technical aspect to language that I had never before particularly enjoyed.

    From this link, if you scroll down almost all the way to the bottom you will see that Section 18.2-308 has several additional sub-sections (including the 18.2-308.2:2 I referenced) which appear to me to be all related. And again, not being a lawyer, all I can do is suppose that a provision made in the top level (shall be deemed...) would apply to sub-levels too, unless specifically negated.

    TFred

    For completeness, here are the list of sections under 18.2-308:

    18.2-308 Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry
    18.2-308.1 Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited
    18.2-308.1:1 Possession or transportation of firearms by persons acquitted by reason of insanity; penalty; permi...
    18.2-308.1:2 Purchase, possession or transportation of firearm by persons adjudicated legally incompetent or men...
    18.2-308.1:3 Purchase, possession or transportation of firearm by persons involuntarily admitted or ordered to o...
    18.2-308.1:4 Purchase or transportation of firearm by persons subject to protective orders; penalty
    18.2-308.1:5 Purchase or transportation of firearm by persons convicted of certain drug offenses prohibite...
    18.2-308.2 Possession or transportation of firearms, stun weapons, explosives or concealed weapons by convicte...
    18.2-308.2:01 Possession or transportation of certain firearms by certain persons
    18.2-308.2:1 Prohibiting the selling, etc., of firearms to certain persons
    18.2-308.2:2 Criminal history record information check required for the transfer of certain firearms
    18.2-308.2:3 Criminal background check required for employees of a gun dealer to transfer firearms; exemptions; ...
    18.2-308.3 Use or attempted use of restricted ammunition in commission or attempted commission of crimes prohi...
    18.2-308.4 Possession of firearms while in possession of certain controlled substances
    18.2-308.5 Manufacture, import, sale, transfer or possession of plastic firearm prohibited
    18.2-308.6 Possession of unregistered firearm mufflers or silencers prohibited; penalty
    18.2-308.7 Possession or transportation of certain firearms by persons under the age of 18; penalty
    18.2-308.8 Importation, sale, possession or transfer of Striker 12's prohibited; penalty


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    wow, great info guys. I'd never thought about whether that law applies to chp reciprocals or not, thanks for the additional perspective TFred. It is an interesting subject and one that I haven't heard too much about.

    It always did seem kind of arbitrary, the one handgun every 30 days law, and it would make sense that the timer starts when you fill out the paperwork.

    I guess the worse that could happen is they deny you, no big deal right? Anyone wanna be the guinea pig for this one ?

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    If you don't have a CHP and try to buy two handguns within 30days of each other, they will deny you when the dealer calls it in. I've seen it in person at the gun show, except it was the NICS that fubbed it up by recording the first purchase as a handgun when it was actually a rifle. The first dealer cleared it up with NICS and the second dealer went ahead with the handgun sale.

    But a database keeping track of gun owners is illegal so we don't have anything to worry about

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    TFred wrote:
    My local FFL of choice is not a retailer, but he has offered to receive shipment and hold it for me until the 30 days rolled around. I would suppose that most Virginia retailers would make provision for this sort of situation.
    I was about to suggest this. I can't think of any of my gun stores turning down this request for me.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    foxcall wrote:
    Darn, I was hoping it wasn't going to be that way.

    yea, i'm working on that chp - just been too lazy

    thanks for the help


    just to be curious - what would happen if I went ahead and tried to buy it anyway and it failed me for the 30 day rule. Would the timer reset or could I just go back in after x days from the original 30 day count?
    Your request should not receive approval when they call it in to the VA State Police. I don't know whether the 30 days "resets" if you have a denied request nor, in my opinion, should you attempt to find out. Breaking the law to "see what happens" in a process overseen directly by the State Police strikes me as unwise.

    Why don't you just put money down on the firearm to hold it for your future purchase?





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    TFred wrote:
    And neither am I... although I must say that since I have been recently following this open records issue with regard to CHP, I am rather enjoying it. I am a technical person by nature and by training. Studying and trying to understand legislation provides a technical aspect to language that I had never before particularly enjoyed.

    From this link, if you scroll down almost all the way to the bottom you will see that Section 18.2-308 has several additional sub-sections (including the 18.2-308.2:2 I referenced) which appear to me to be all related. And again, not being a lawyer, all I can do is suppose that a provision made in the top level (shall be deemed...) would apply to sub-levels too, unless specifically negated.

    TFred

    For completeness, here are the list of sections under 18.2-308:

    18.2-308 Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry
    18.2-308.1 Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited
    18.2-308.1:1 Possession or transportation of firearms by persons acquitted by reason of insanity; penalty; permi...
    18.2-308.1:2 Purchase, possession or transportation of firearm by persons adjudicated legally incompetent or men...
    18.2-308.1:3 Purchase, possession or transportation of firearm by persons involuntarily admitted or ordered to o...
    18.2-308.1:4 Purchase or transportation of firearm by persons subject to protective orders; penalty
    18.2-308.1:5 Purchase or transportation of firearm by persons convicted of certain drug offenses prohibite...
    18.2-308.2 Possession or transportation of firearms, stun weapons, explosives or concealed weapons by convicte...
    18.2-308.2:01 Possession or transportation of certain firearms by certain persons
    18.2-308.2:1 Prohibiting the selling, etc., of firearms to certain persons
    18.2-308.2:2 Criminal history record information check required for the transfer of certain firearms
    18.2-308.2:3 Criminal background check required for employees of a gun dealer to transfer firearms; exemptions; ...
    18.2-308.3 Use or attempted use of restricted ammunition in commission or attempted commission of crimes prohi...
    18.2-308.4 Possession of firearms while in possession of certain controlled substances
    18.2-308.5 Manufacture, import, sale, transfer or possession of plastic firearm prohibited
    18.2-308.6 Possession of unregistered firearm mufflers or silencers prohibited; penalty
    18.2-308.7 Possession or transportation of certain firearms by persons under the age of 18; penalty
    18.2-308.8 Importation, sale, possession or transfer of Striker 12's prohibited; penalty
    Close - each of those: 18.2-308, -308.1, -308.2:3, etc, are all separate Sections of the Code of Virginia. The odd numbering is more for keeping all of the relevant sections together, and not "disturb" the numbering of unrelated Sections that follow That's why there's a Title 18.2 in the first place; Title 18 was repealed when replaced by Title 18.1, which in turn was replaced by 18.2. The online Code is good, but it doesn't help with the Chaptering of the Sections, nor with showing which Chapters and Titles were Repealed.

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    Yea, I'm pretty cool with the guys at my local shop so they're holding it for me until my timer runs out.

    But is it really illegal to attempt a handgun purchase within the 30 day limit? Isn't it just a simple background check with a thumbs up or thumbs down? If denied, then there's no harm done, unless I'm wrong on this. I still wouldn't do this intentionally to find out "just what happens" as it would be inconvenient for everyone and just bad practice, but illegal?

    Only way the law could be broken, in this case, would be if the shop let me take it anyway after I'd been denied. Or if I just grabbed and ran - then that would be breaking entirely different laws.

    useful_idiot wrote:
    foxcall wrote:
    Darn, I was hoping it wasn't going to be that way.

    yea, i'm working on that chp - just been too lazy

    thanks for the help


    just to be curious - what would happen if I went ahead and tried to buy it anyway and it failed me for the 30 day rule. Would the timer reset or could I just go back in after x days from the original 30 day count?
    Your request should not receive approval when they call it in to the VA State Police. I don't know whether the 30 days "resets" if you have a denied request nor, in my opinion, should you attempt to find out. Breaking the law to "see what happens" in a process overseen directly by the State Police strikes me as unwise.

    Why don't you just put money down on the firearm to hold it for your future purchase?




  19. #19
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    foxcall wrote:
    Yea, I'm pretty cool with the guys at my local shop so they're holding it for me until my timer runs out.

    But is it really illegal to attempt a handgun purchase within the 30 day limit? Isn't it just a simple background check with a thumbs up or thumbs down? If denied, then there's no harm done, unless I'm wrong on this. I still wouldn't do this intentionally to find out "just what happens" as it would be inconvenient for everyone and just bad practice, but illegal?

    Only way the law could be broken, in this case, would be if the shop let me take it anyway after I'd been denied. Or if I just grabbed and ran - then that would be breaking entirely different laws.
    As always, IANAL, but one can say for certain that it IS illegal to actually purchase a handgun inside the 30 day limit, so attempting to do so, would literally be attempting to commit a crime.

    And... say there is a glitch in the VSP system, and your purchase does go through! Then you are documented as having broken the law, as noted earlier, with a system that is operated by the Virginia State Police!

    I suppose if you were really scatter-brained, you could claim you didn't keep track of your previous purchase date, but that may fall under negligence... Who knows...

    As stated earlier, just doesn't seem to be a wise move...

    TFred

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    It has to be a valid Virginia CHP, VSP is very clear about this. I've had customers denied because they thought they were OK with an out of state permit. When the VSP does the background check, they check against 4 databases, one is if you have bought a handgun in the last 30 days and the another is the list of Virginia CHPs.

    Now another way around the one gun a month is to trade in a handgun against the one you want to buy. I know some folks without permits kept cheap junk pistols to trade for something better.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    nova wrote: You know in a couple of years of doing gun sales, I have never seen anyone get one.

    ETA: Not that they aren't issued but I think most collectors get a CHP to eliminate the need for it.

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Back before CHP holders were allowed to purchase more than one handgun per month (we too were restricted to1 per 30 days), I went to the Va. State Police Hdqtrs. and filled out the paperwork for special authorization to purchase what I considered to be a collectable - it was an unusual Star I wanted to add to the four I already owned. Had 28 days to go otherwise.

    Guess what - I got the approval! After, the 30 days had passed!

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    yeah that "certificate" is pretty useless IMO, it's easier to just get a CHP and then get all the benefits that go along with it. Especially if you have to find the guns you want, then send in your application to the VSP that can take 30+ days anyhow.

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