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Local Norfolk Chatter....how do we keep the correct news on top?

DonTreadOnMe

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vtme_grad98 wrote:
Bubba Ron wrote:
A lot of the people that work at Bob's Gun Shop do not have favorable views on Open Carry. I don't fret over their ignorance.

That's an understatement. On the day of the first Norfolk Gun Show in years, I was in there in the morning killing time while my ex-wife (not ex at the time obviously) was getting her hair cut. I was carrying concealed, because one of the stylists at the place gets uncomfortable when he sees guns, because they remind him of when he was held up once (i.e. not afraid of mine, just takes him back to a situation that scared him).

As I was in Bob's, a customer was asking Bob some questions about concealed carry permits. He was concerned that the permit only covered him if the gun was physically on him, but not in the glove compartment (sounds like his CHP class at Bob's was of the same quality as the one I took there years ago). I stepped in to help explain things to him, and then commented that the easy solution is to just keep the gun in the open if he wants to avoid breaking the law. Bob's response to that?

"They need to outlaw that open carry crap"

Not "I think it's stupid to open carry", or "tactically, I don't think that's a good idea". He thinks it should actually be against the law to open carry. I've never set foot in that place since. There are plenty of gun stores around that DON'T want to take away my rights.

...Well, I was planning on hitting Bob's this weekend, I guess not. :(
 

darthmord

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Thing is, not everyone at Bob's feels 'open carry = bad'.

Take TJ for instance. While he prefers to conceal carry, he's told me he is happy just having people carry period.

The guy who taught our CC course at Bob's (name escapes me, shorter thin guy, light brown hair) gave us the cut and dry of it. CC has advatanges. OC has its own advantages. You have to choose which is best for you given the circumstances and the law.

Then there is the lady who runs the ammo floor, Debbie. I always see her open carrying. No one gives her grief about it either. Having talked with her, I understand why. She won't tolerate shenanigans.

But as with many things, you typically don't hear about the people who don't care or are pro-OC. They aren't the ones making the noise. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. Bad news travels faster than light yet good news takes the very long scenic route... if it travels at all.
 

DonTreadOnMe

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"They need to outlaw that open carry crap"

If it was just some random employee, it would not be as disturbing to me. If that is an accurate quote of the owner of the business, I am very put off.

Until, I hear something that conflicts with this report of Bob's views on desiring to restrict my rights I will spend my money supporting a more friendly to my rights business.
 

tripledipper

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Correct me if I am wrong, but believe that I read Bob's obituary in the Pilot some time ago. The CC instructor, Steve Dowdy, is a nice guy who did not take sides on OC vs CC, but he did say that you mightexpect that uninformedcitizens mayfreak out and call 911 on you. Sounds justlike a Dan scenario.
 

bayboy42

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tripledipper wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but believe that I read Bob's obituary in the Pilot some time ago. The CC instructor, Steve Dowdy, is a nice guy who did not take sides on OC vs CC, but he did say that you mightexpect that uninformedcitizens mayfreak out and call 911 on you. Sounds justlike a Dan scenario.

Consider yourself corrected. Robert Marcus (Bob) is still around.

http://www.bobsgunshop.com/listings.php?id=180&cid=50&esi=9dc2c5e9b62715790d94692e46a02944551ee2b81344a6d047cce
 

deepdiver

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Robert Marcus joined the forum briefly in May 2008 to dispute vtmegrad's recollection. There were posts made in that thread indicating that perhaps there was a misremembering of who actually made the comment about outlawing OC. Anyone who is interested in the matter, I would strongly suggest you review the previous thread where this arose:

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=10044&forum_id=54&jump_to=175858#p175858

I don't have a dog in this fight as I am far away from VA and not likely to ever step foot into Bob's Gun Shop. I just do not want to see a man's reputation negatively impacted on this forum without linking to prior discussion of the matter, his personal defense as to these comments and other's defense of him.
 

SaltH2OHokie

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I don't know a thing about this incident that started the thread, and I don't think I could tell you who Bob is, of Bob's guns, but I was down a while back and while a friend was across the street getting a tattoo, me and a buddy walked into Bob's and somehow my friend broached the topic of open carry. The man behind the counter (again, could be Bob, could be Dog the Bounty Hunter...no clue...) said that it was "tactically foolish and would result in nothing but attention being called to yourself or getting your gun grabbed by a bad guy". This was at least a year ago, but still not exactly the attitude you'd like from a gun dealer in Norfolk, where open carry seems to be a hot topic...

I don't shop there just because it isn't the closest shop to me, but "divide and conquer" comes to mind when you start having gun shops saying no to open carrying...

Just relating my experience based on what I saw, first hand.

Sorta stuck in my craw since I open carry (and did at the time he said that).
 

no carry permit ?

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...Well, I was planning on hitting Bob's this weekend, I guess not. :(

I'm with you 100% on that ! Why spend your money with idiots that want to take a RIGHT away. We should be organizing Boycotts against ALL gun stores, ranges, organizations, and manufacturers that are vocal in outlawing any GUN Right.

I for one will not do business with ant-open carry stores.
 

darthmord

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SaltH2OHokie wrote:
I don't know a thing about this incident that started the thread, and I don't think I could tell you who Bob is, of Bob's guns, but I was down a while back and while a friend was across the street getting a tattoo, me and a buddy walked into Bob's and somehow my friend broached the topic of open carry. The man behind the counter (again, could be Bob, could be Dog the Bounty Hunter...no clue...) said that it was "tactically foolish and would result in nothing but attention being called to yourself or getting your gun grabbed by a bad guy". This was at least a year ago, but still not exactly the attitude you'd like from a gun dealer in Norfolk, where open carry seems to be a hot topic...

I don't shop there just because it isn't the closest shop to me, but "divide and conquer" comes to mind when you start having gun shops saying no to open carrying...

Just relating my experience based on what I saw, first hand.

Sorta stuck in my craw since I open carry (and did at the time he said that).


You more than likely had the same guy talking to you that I had during my last visit. The line"tactically foolish and would result in nothing but attention being called to yourself or getting your gun grabbed by a bad guy" is something he would say.

Honestly though, it's the only negative experience I've had at Bob's. All my other visits (well over a dozen just for the range alone) have been quite pleasant, agreeable, and informative.

So it puts me in a quandary... do I stop going to Bob's over someone's right to free speech / their expression of an opinion or do I continue supporting a store that supports my 2nd Amendment rights, has consistently given me good advice (outside of 'open carry bad'), and helped me make informed firearm decisions?

Because as I see it, it's wrong of me punish innocents by not shopping where they work for the action of a couple of people. I get it that some people swear by OC and some by CC. I'm of the mind that you should do what you need to do that is appropriate for the situation.

The anti-OC / You-have-to-be-stupid-to-OC stance taken by the one guy I described earlier and echoed by Scotty was enough to piss my wife off such that she went storming out of the store. She's not prone to losing her temper either. She was also not impressed by the fact that violating the law was advocated.


*edit* For spelling and grammar cuz I write gudder.
 

Bubba Ron

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deepdiver wrote:
Robert Marcus joined the forum briefly in May 2008 to dispute vtmegrad's recollection. There were posts made in that thread indicating that perhaps there was a misremembering of who actually made the comment about outlawing OC. Anyone who is interested in the matter, I would strongly suggest you review the previous thread where this arose:

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=10044&forum_id=54&jump_to=175858#p175858

I don't have a dog in this fight as I am far away from VA and not likely to ever step foot into Bob's Gun Shop. I just do not want to see a man's reputation negatively impacted on this forum without linking to prior discussion of the matter, his personal defense as to these comments and other's defense of him.
No one said this post was specifically about Robert Marcus the person - it is about some of the employees of Bob's Gun Shop and their disdain for people that Open Carry. In this thread alone, there are three different individuals that have received negative OC comments by employees of Bob's. One has to assume that Robert at least allows these comments....or they would not be heard.
 

MeBaby

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darthmord wrote:
Bubba Ron wrote:
A lot of the people that work at Bob's Gun Shop do not have favorable views on Open Carry. I don't fret over their ignorance.
That is correct. I was given a tirade by one guy (description: about 5'7", balding, always wears a baseball cap, thin mustache, looks slightly hunched) about open carry and that I'd be associated with the rest of the low life scum who can't conceal carry.

Then he passed me off to Scotty (who is a nice guy) and he went off politely about open carry being a bad idea. He also indicated to me that he'd rather conceal carry in violation of the law than open carry because of the hassle involved.

The first guy kept badgering me about what I would do if someone starts berating me about open carrying. The funny thing is... he never realized I was doing just that. Letting the guy who was hysterical about open carry speak all he wanted. He wasn't getting under my skin. I sure as hell was NOT going to draw on him (no imminent threat).

Ultimately, we purchased our holsters (Blackhawk) and left.

So far, my worst open carry experience has been AT A GUN STORE.:cuss::banghead:
I think I may have turned to the store personnel and asked if they subscribed to the same thoughts. If they (he) agreed, I would explain to them that Iwill take my business to a "gun friendly" gun shop :cool:.
 

deepdiver

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Bubba Ron wrote:
deepdiver wrote:
No one said this post was specifically about Robert Marcus the person - it is about some of the employees of Bob's Gun Shop and their disdain for people that Open Carry. In this thread alone, there are three different individuals that have received negative OC comments by employees of Bob's. One has to assume that Robert at least allows these comments....or they would not be heard.
Well actually a post did say that. And it is a topic that has been discussed before as I linked which is important background to the matter. Being that part of this thread title regards "correct news" I think it prudent that all facts be part of the conversation so our conversations are "correct news" as well.

I do not have a problem with people in gun shop stating that they oppose OC. There are people at a gun shop I frequent who express their opposition to OC. They have a right to their opinion and we have discussed the matter politely. Opposing OC as a tactically unsound principal or for other reasoned purposes is much different than suggesting that OC be made illegal. Then again, if I owned a gun store and someone expressed that opinion in a polite manner in a discussion I don't think I would fire them over it either. Freedom works both ways. Now if they started actively working to infringe the rights of others or were intentionally and maliciously spreading provable misinformation regarding OC that would be another matter and a firing offense in my managerial opinion.
 

Bubba Ron

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deepdiver wrote:
.... Being that part of this thread title regards "correct news" I think it prudent that all facts be part of the conversation so our conversations are "correct news" as well.....
All the facts? I have been around both vtme_grad98 and Robert Marcus several times. I don't know of either of them ever stretching the truth - but their stories of the event are contradictory - so what are the facts? I do know that Bob's has had (I haven't been there lately) employees that were not shy about voicing their negative comments about Open Carry.
 

hektor

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I open carry there every time I go (2-3X per month to the range and buy little stuff) and never had the least reaction.

Did have one employee try to jack the price of my new Kahr CW9 up by $50 - same guy who taught my CHP class. I talked to Bob himself, very nice and professional, who gave me the original price without hesitation. Never had an issue with any other guys there.

I'll keep shooting there.

FWIW
 

deepdiver

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Bubba Ron wrote:
deepdiver wrote:
.... Being that part of this thread title regards "correct news" I think it prudent that all facts be part of the conversation so our conversations are "correct news" as well.....
All the facts? I have been around both vtme_grad98 and Robert Marcus several times. I don't know of either of them ever stretching the truth - but their stories of the event are contradictory - so what are the facts? I do know that Bob's has had (I haven't been there lately) employees that were not shy about voicing their negative comments about Open Carry.
Not arguing any of that which is why I posted the link to the prior thread in which there is a link to yet another prior thread where Bob's was discussed for people to read for themselves to draw any conclusion they wish. The prior threads give more information about the matter than we have in this thread and I think the history germane to the issue. As you will note, I did not at any time give an opinion as to what the conclusion should be rather only encouraged people to investigate the matter more through the prior threads.

I do think it has been established through the membership here that Bob's has or had at least 1 and possibly as many as 3 employees who say deleterious things about OC rather openly.

Any way, I didn't intend to derail the thread further into this issue or to insert myself into the middle of such a discussion. I was only trying to be helpful as I remembered the prior thread on the matter and was able to find it rather quickly because of my recollection. I apologize to the members for further derailing the thread unintentional though it may have been.
 

darthmord

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In all fairness, I've not spoken to Bob about my incident. I wasn't intending on doing so but I think I will when I next go there to shoot at the range.

I'll also mention that in explaining to me the 'horrors' of open carry, the two people in question actually gave me the (to date) worst open carry experience I've had given theemphatic natureof the main person involved.

If Bob blows me off, then I know what I should do. If he takes my notice for action, then I again know what I should do.

Like I said earlier. The number of good experiences there definitely outweighs the bad ones. As such, I have to give benefit of the doubt before I make any decisions. I would suggest others try to as well. I wouldn't any of us to throw the baby out with the bath water.
 

darthmord

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hektor wrote:
I open carry there every time I go (2-3X per month to the range and buy little stuff) and never had the least reaction.

Did have one employee try to jack the price of my new Kahr CW9 up by $50 - same guy who taught my CHP class. I talked to Bob himself, very nice and professional, who gave me the original price without hesitation. Never had an issue with any other guys there.

I'll keep shooting there.

FWIW

I did have an instance of a price mismatch. The gun theyrang up for me was $20 more than the gun I was looking at off the shelf even though it was the same model. Once I pointed it out, they immediately refunded me $20 + tax.
 

mpolo79

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If a gun store employee advocates unlawfully concealing a weapon instead of open carry, personally I think they ought to be fired and gun owners should take their business elsewhere.

It is very dangerous to think about flirting with the law like that., I would love to see people have the right to conceal carry anywhere without a permit but unfortunately the law simply isn't on our side on that issue. At least not yet.

Maybe it will be someday. Small steps. We're making progress.

It's very foolish to expose yourself to criminal prosecution and become economically crippled for the rest of your life with a criminal record. Every time you apply for a job, you will have to reveal that you have been convicted of a crime. And it's not just a crime, but a FIREARMS related crime. Not good.
 

bayboy42

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As the OP, I couldn't give two sh$T$ about the individual beliefs on OC held by Robert Marcus or his employees. The intent of my post was NOT to disuade people from shopping at Bobs. The intent was to show that there is a lot of false information floating around about Danbus's incident which may be having a negative impact on people's perceived notions of OC/VCDL. It is each of our responsibilities to ensure that we inject articulatable facts into any situations that we experience directly or indirectly. In my case, I indirectly experienced such a situationand used the court's internet database to set the record straight regarding what he was charged with. The only thing I was looking for was alternate suggestions on how to make sure the real story is heard.
 
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