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Thread: Fingerprints required for CHP in Arlington County

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    In Arlington County, in order to obtain a CHP, you are required to submit to having yourself fingerprinted...as if you had just committed a crime.

    What's next? DNA samples?

    I suppose the purpose is so that if your fingerprints are found at a crime scene, they can immediately confiscate your weapons and search your house, etc., etc.

    Does anyone know how long these yahoos keep your fingerprints on file? Is it forever?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    mpolo79 wrote:
    In Arlington County, in order to obtain a CHP, you are required to submit to having yourself fingerprinted...as if you had just committed a crime.

    What's next? DNA samples?

    I suppose the purpose is so that if your fingerprints are found at a crime scene, they can immediately confiscate your weapons and search your house, etc., etc.

    Does anyone know how long these yahoos keep your fingerprints on file? Is it forever?
    Actually, your fears are unfounded, if the authorities follow the law:

    Virginia Code § 18.2-308 D:

    As a condition for issuance of a concealed handgun permit, the applicant shall submit to fingerprinting if required by local ordinance in the county or city where the applicant resides and provide personal descriptive information to be forwarded with the fingerprints through the Central Criminal Records Exchange to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for the purpose of obtaining criminal history record information regarding the applicant, and obtaining fingerprint identification information from federal records pursuant to criminal investigations by state and local law-enforcement agencies.

    However, no local ordinance shall require an applicant to submit to fingerprinting if the applicant has an existing concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to this section and is applying for a new five-year permit pursuant to subsection I.

    Where feasible and practical, the local law-enforcement agency may transfer information electronically to the State Police instead of inked fingerprint cards.

    Upon completion of the criminal history records check, the State Police shall return the fingerprint cards to the submitting local agency or, in the case of scanned fingerprints, destroy the electronic record.

    The local agency shall then promptly notify the person that he has 21 days from the date of the notice to request return of the fingerprint cards, if any.

    All fingerprint cards not claimed by the applicant within 21 days of notification by the local agency shall be destroyed.

    All optically scanned fingerprints shall be destroyed upon completion of the criminal history records check without requiring that the applicant be notified.

    Fingerprints taken for the purposes described in this section shall not be copied, held or used for any other purposes.

    TFred

    ETA: link to code.
    (Hey, I just figured out what ETA stands for! )

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    That leads me to another question...how do you actually know, or could you prove, that the fingerprints were actually not copied and destroyed?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    And does anybody here think that the FBI destroys the fingerprints that they receive?

    "to be forwarded with the fingerprints through the Central Criminal Records Exchange to the Federal Bureau of Investigation"

    Wanna buy a bridge? Cheap!

    Yata hey
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    FYI... Alexandria requires fingerprints as well.

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    Dinwiddie as well.....I did have a problem with it since my right wrist was broke and my hand was in a cast. We struggled through it and was able to get my prints. It was an electronic finger-printer, not the old fashioned ink.

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    Thank for posting the info TFred.

    Yes, according to the law it appears they are required to destroy the fingerprint records which is a good thing.

    But in this day and age, as our civil liberties are stripped away one by one, I have very little faith left in the integrity of our bureaucrats to protect us from gov't abuse.

    It is especially disconcerting to hear that the FBI gets your prints. I suppose at that point the Feds actually open up a file on you.

    So the Feds open up a file on you...for exercising your constitutional rights.

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    mpolo79 wrote:
    In Arlington County, in order to obtain a CHP, you are required to submit to having yourself fingerprinted...as if you had just committed a crime.

    What's next? DNA samples?

    I suppose the purpose is so that if your fingerprints are found at a crime scene, they can immediately confiscate your weapons and search your house, etc., etc.

    Does anyone know how long these yahoos keep your fingerprints on file? Is it forever?
    Holders of existing erpmit cannot be forced to be fingerprinted by any locality.

    But most localities, including Fairfax County and Richmond do NOT fingerprint - if you live in Arlington County, you should ask your County supervisor to get the requirement repealed - the FBI fingerprinting cost is somthing like $32 and eats up County money which otherwise would stay in the County!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Mike wrote:
    mpolo79 wrote:
    In Arlington County, in order to obtain a CHP, you are required to submit to having yourself fingerprinted...as if you had just committed a crime.

    What's next? DNA samples?

    I suppose the purpose is so that if your fingerprints are found at a crime scene, they can immediately confiscate your weapons and search your house, etc., etc.

    Does anyone know how long these yahoos keep your fingerprints on file? Is it forever?
    Holders of existing erpmit cannot be forced to be fingerprinted by any locality.

    But most localities, including Fairfax County and Richmond do NOT fingerprint - if you live in Arlington County, you should ask your County supervisor to get the requirement repealed - the FBI fingerprinting cost is somthing like $32 and eats up County money which otherwise would stay in the County!
    Agreed - Fingerprinting is absoluely not needed to make a positive ID on you for FBI/NCI check.

    If prints were needed, they would still be required on renewals. So money savings and lack of benefit are selling points to County Supervisors.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Chesterfield County requires fingerprints as well. You are not alone.

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    Hampton requires it. They passed the ordinance as soon as the state law allowed it at their next meeting. The FBI is not required by any law to return them so they probably go on record with the feds. For me it really doesn't matter since I already had an FBI file with my prints on record.
    Revelation 1911 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

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    In Spotsylvania County, fingerprints were "required" as well.

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    Scott wrote:
    Chesterfield County requires fingerprints as well. You are not alone.
    Yep. Got treated like a criminal the other day.Anyone know how longChesterfield County been takes with the application?

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    mpolo79 wrote:
    In Arlington County, in order to obtain a CHP, you are required to submit to having yourself fingerprinted...as if you had just committed a crime.

    What's next? DNA samples?

    I suppose the purpose is so that if your fingerprints are found at a crime scene, they can immediately confiscate your weapons and search your house, etc., etc.

    Does anyone know how long these yahoos keep your fingerprints on file? Is it forever?

    Wow, that's a pretty paranoid point of view you have there....
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    ProShooter wrote:
    mpolo79 wrote:
    In Arlington County, in order to obtain a CHP, you are required to submit to having yourself fingerprinted...as if you had just committed a crime.

    What's next? DNA samples?

    I suppose the purpose is so that if your fingerprints are found at a crime scene, they can immediately confiscate your weapons and search your house, etc., etc.

    Does anyone know how long these yahoos keep your fingerprints on file? Is it forever?

    Wow, that's a pretty paranoid point of view you have there....
    +1.....OK....Enlighten me...If I haven't committed a crime nor do I intend to, what possible difference could it make how long or even if the LEA's keep my prints?

    Please don't 'throw up' the age old 'give up 1 right, give them all up' argument....it's been beat up enough here...


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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    If guns are banned, I'd rather not have my prints on file.

    You know, every single innocent person who's been falsely imprisoned didn't wake up that morning planning to commit a crime. In fact, they never committed the crime at all. I guess those intentions are awfully reassuring once that cell door closes, though. :quirky

    When you treat people as criminals with no suspicion of a crime, you've taken the first step towards imprisoning the innocent en masse.

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    marshaul wrote:
    If guns are banned, I'd rather not have my prints on file.

    You know, every single innocent person who's been falsely imprisoned didn't wake up that morning planning to commit a crime. In fact, they never committed the crime at all. I guess those intentions are awfully reassuring once that cell door closes, though. :quirky

    When you treat people as criminals with no suspicion of a crime, you've taken the first step towards imprisoning the innocent en masse.
    K.....I'll go back to this....
    proshooter wrote: Wow, that's a pretty paranoid point of view you have there....

    and my +1....still stands.....with no real answer yet.....

    Guns banned?? You don't find that statement a bit extreme?? En masse? Care to clariy?


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    I think fingerprints are required in most VA counties. I know Prince William and Fauquier counties require them for a permit. However, for renewals, I believe that fingerprints are not required. Just FYI...

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    vrwmiller wrote:
    I think fingerprints are required in most VA counties. I know Prince William and Fauquier counties require them for a permit. However, for renewals, I believe that fingerprints are not required. Just FYI...
    Each jurisiction may require them, but it must be a local ordinance. However, state law prohibits them from being required for renewals.

    It's all here.

    Paragraph D:

    As a condition for issuance of a concealed handgun permit, the applicant shall submit to fingerprinting if required by local ordinance in the county or city where the applicant resides and provide personal descriptive information to be forwarded with the fingerprints through the Central Criminal Records Exchange to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for the purpose of obtaining criminal history record information regarding the applicant, and obtaining fingerprint identification information from federal records pursuant to criminal investigations by state and local law-enforcement agencies. However, no local ordinance shall require an applicant to submit to fingerprinting if the applicant has an existing concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to this section and is applying for a new five-year permit pursuant to subsection I.

    TFred

    ETA: Paragraph D text.


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    razor_baghdad wrote:
    marshaul wrote:
    If guns are banned, I'd rather not have my prints on file.

    You know, every single innocent person who's been falsely imprisoned didn't wake up that morning planning to commit a crime. In fact, they never committed the crime at all. I guess those intentions are awfully reassuring once that cell door closes, though. :quirky

    When you treat people as criminals with no suspicion of a crime, you've taken the first step towards imprisoning the innocent en masse.
    K.....I'll go back to this....
    proshooter wrote: Wow, that's a pretty paranoid point of view you have there....

    and my +1....still stands.....with no real answer yet.....

    Guns banned?? You don't find that statement a bit extreme?? En masse? Care to clariy?
    You've convinced yourself that the state will never redefine the category of "criminal" to include your person. I don't share this naïve view. It's not paranoid when noncriminal forms of behavior are routinely outlawed.

    Edit: en masse means "in mass" or "all at once" or even "in great quantities".

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    Bill in VA wrote:
    Toad wrote:
    That leads me to another question...how do you actually know, or could you prove, that the fingerprints were actually not copied and destroyed?
    You don't, and you can't. Now remember: the shiny side goes out.
    What?!?!?!?

    No wonder I get headaches.

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    vrwmiller wrote:
    I think fingerprints are required in most VA counties. I know Prince William and Fauquier counties require them for a permit. However, for renewals, I believe that fingerprints are not required. Just FYI...
    No, Prince William does not require fingerprints. I got my permit in March 2007 - no fingerprints.

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    vrwmiller wrote:
    I think fingerprints are required in most VA counties. I know Prince William and Fauquier counties require them for a permit. However, for renewals, I believe that fingerprints are not required. Just FYI...
    No - I thought everybody knew this - only about 27% of counties and cities fingerprint - neither Fairfax County nor PW County nor the City of Richmond fingerprint.

    If you localitiy prinbts, you need to take action and explain that the locality is losing money out the window to the FBI - like about $35 of the $ 50 collected for NO REASON.

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    I stand corrected in that PW does not require them. When I got my permit in PW County (2001, I think), they were required.

    I know that Fauqier requires them, as I found the ordinance while I was browsing their code the other day. Was browsing their code because a new neighbor next to the property I hunt has started giving us grief about one of our stands out there.



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