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Thread: Age to OC?

  1. #1
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    Hi all,

    I was born in Cali, but was raised in WA, and then joined the Army at 17, and am now stationed in NC. OC is legal here at 18 and I do it regularly, but I am about to transfer back to good old Ft Lewis WA, and I noticed that the map says 21 to OC. Now, as a 19 year old soldier...I'm confused.

    I looked up RCW 9.41.040 (unlawful possession of firearms), it says possession by minors (explained:under 18) is illegal...am I wrong? I personally own 3 handguns in NC, and many more from my father in WA, and my NH and Maine permits are no good in WA. Would I be in the wrong?

    I even found the Open Carry Training Bulletin for WA and no-where does it say anything about 21 to OC. Could I get some explantion please?

    I appreciate it.

    -John

  2. #2
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    There are provisions for minors(under 18)to possess and carry a handgun under certain limited conditions -- very limited. At 18, you could not carry a concealed handgun, or have a loaded handgun in your vehicle, but as I read the statutes, nothing prohibits open carry.

    I have discussed this with LEOs in the past, and those I spoke with were not familiar enough with the statutes to realize that an 18 year old can OC legally. If you choose to do so, I would suggest you carry a copy of the entire 9.41 statute, as otherwise you may have some sticky situations if you are stopped by LEO.

    Perhaps this is another topic that warrants a training bulletin(s) to clarify for LEOs.

    I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.

    Charles

  3. #3
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    I don't think you are allowed to OC on a normal routine basis. I could very easily be wrong here, but I think you are limited to certain exceptions... Such as

    RCW 9.41.240:

    Unless an exception under RCW 9.41.042, 9.41.050, or 9.41.060 applies, a person at least eighteen years of age, but less than twenty-one years of age, may possess a pistol only:

    (1) In the person's place of abode;

    (2) At the person's fixed place of business; or

    (3) On real property under his or her control.



    than the other exceptions under 9.41.060 would be:

    section 6: Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting, when those members are at or are going to or from their places of target practice;

    section 8: Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;


  4. #4
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    There we go. I just didn't delve deeply enough in to the codes. 9.41.240 explains it better. So I can have a pistol in my car (unloaded), on my way to the range and such, but not OC. Lord do I LOVE being a 19 year old minor.

    You can vote, you can marry, you can enter into legally binding contracts, you can fight and die for your country, but God forbid you have the same rights as everyone else!

    I appreciate the info.

    -John

  5. #5
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    I know, isnt it great! I have difficulty acquiring 9mm ammo as well.

  6. #6
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    Paratrooper82 wrote:
    There we go. I just didn't delve deeply enough in to the codes. 9.41.240 explains it better. So I can have a pistol in my car (unloaded), on my way to the range and such, but not OC. Lord do I LOVE being a 19 year old minor.

    You can vote, you can marry, you can enter into legally binding contracts, you can fight and die for your country, but God forbid you have the same rights as everyone else!

    I appreciate the info.

    -John
    Should at least be able to have a beer...

  7. #7
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    Since I'm only 20, I've been thinking about ways to legally carry while under 21 and about the best you can do is carry unloaded in a CC style fanny pack. Thats assuming a fanny pack is considered a closed opaque case or secure wrapper, which I dont see how it couldnt be.

    I was also thinking about OC with no ID. That way a LEO would have to detain and interrogate you to get your name and DOB. Not something I plan on trying, just something I thought about...

  8. #8
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    Brad Cowin wrote:
    Since I'm only 20, I've been thinking about ways to legally carry while under 21 and about the best you can do is carry unloaded in a CC style fanny pack. Thats assuming a fanny pack is considered a closed opaque case or secure wrapper, which I dont see how it couldnt be.

    I was also thinking about OC with no ID. That way a LEO would have to detain and interrogate you to get your name and DOB. Not something I plan on trying, just something I thought about...
    I don't recommend any of these things... First off it would be at the discretion of the officer to determine whether or not you are CCing... specially since it is in a fanny pack not in a back pack or an actual gun case... And if you don't have an ID to top it off... the cop may just arrest you and charge you w. felony carrying of a firearm and then sort it out once you've reached the station and they process you (figure out you have no warrants or anything like that) MAYBE then they will be like "whoops you're good" however it probably won't be a good experience.

  9. #9
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    shakul wrote:
    Brad Cowin wrote:
    Since I'm only 20, I've been thinking about ways to legally carry while under 21 and about the best you can do is carry unloaded in a CC style fanny pack. Thats assuming a fanny pack is considered a closed opaque case or secure wrapper, which I dont see how it couldnt be.

    I was also thinking about OC with no ID. That way a LEO would have to detain and interrogate you to get your name and DOB. Not something I plan on trying, just something I thought about...
    I don't recommend any of these things... First off it would be at the discretion of the officer to determine whether or not you are CCing... specially since it is in a fanny pack not in a back pack or an actual gun case... And if you don't have an ID to top it off... the cop may just arrest you and charge you w. felony carrying of a firearm and then sort it out once you've reached the station and they process you (figure out you have no warrants or anything like that) MAYBE then they will be like "whoops you're good" however it probably won't be a good experience.
    No where in the RCW on exceptions to carrying firearms does it differentiate between types of cases or wrappers. A fanny pack would be the same as a back pack: closed, secure, and opaque. Saying that it would be at the discretion of the officer to determine if youre CCing with an unloaded gun in a fanny pack is like saying you could be given a speeding ticket for travelling at the posted speed limit. "Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper". Carrying in a fanny pack fits that to a T.

    Part two I dont think would be too wise, nor do I plan on trying, but it would be the best way if you were hellbent on doing it. Two scenarios:

    1) You're walking down the street, OCing, minding your own business, not doing anything to warrant alarm. An average LEO stops you, asks for your CPL and ID. You ask if youre being detained. He says youre not so you wish him a good day and walk off.

    2) Again, you're walking down the street, OCing, minding your own business, not doing anything to warrant alarm. Next is the feared ignorant, rogue LEO encounter. You're drawn upon, disarmed, cuffed, and searched. All blatently illegal. Now if you remain silent about your age and tell the officer over and over OC is legal and no CPL or ID is required what can he really do? Especially when a more informed LEO arrives and tells him the same thing you have been saying.

    Again, I do not recommend this or will I do it my self. I can wait the 11 months to OC legally.

  10. #10
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    "Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper". Carrying in a fanny pack fits that to a T."

    That would probably work if the fanny pack was in the car and not attached to your body. I don't think it wouldwork if you have the fanny pack wrapped around your waist and you are walking down the street. Then the fanny pack is not a closed, opaque case, but an article of clothing and your weapon is concealed within it.

    However, it seems to me thatlawful outdoor recreational activity includes walking in a park. Even walking or biking to and from work could be done for recreation and exercise. Once at a fixed place of work it is legal (but perhaps against corporate policy for most, or base policy in your case). In real property under your control it is legal.

    IANAL

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