VA-ALERT: VCDL Update 10/21/08

imported post

VA-ALERT: VCDL Update 10/21/08

-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Van Cleave
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 1:11 PM
Subject: VA-ALERT: VCDL Update 10/21/08


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VCDL's meeting schedule: http://www.vcdl.org/meetings.html
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VCDL Update 10/21/08 - Defending your right to defend yourself

Quote for the day:
Barack Obama on eliminating lawful concealed carry nationwide:
"National legislation will prevent other states' flawed concealed-
weapons laws from threatening the safety of Illinois residents." David
Mendell, "Democratic hopefuls vary a bit on death penalty", Chicago
Tribune, February 20, 2004.

1. Virginia State Forests preparing petition on allowing carry
2. It's time to order your VCDL license plates!
3. Goochland rally has sounds of freedom ringing in the background /
National Parks vote coming?
4. Gun rights advocate will be prosecuted in Norfolk case
5. Female reporter feels safer with armed citizens around
6. Why would you need a gun at a Norfolk school?
7. Assault at William & Mary
8. Concealed guns at Liberty University?
9. No surprise: paper comes out against self-defense at university
10. VCDL helps kill Hanover's proposed weapons ordinances
11. Poquoson City Council works to clear invalid ordinances
12. Discount for permit holders at Newport News shooting range
13. How to make FOIA requests in Virginia
14. D.C.-area tourist attacked with knife at NC Dismal Swamp state park
15. Police Officer gives useful insight of traffic stops of a permit
holder
16. Will Guns Sink Obama in Va.?
17. Anti-Gun-Rights Candidate Could Gut "Heller" Decision
18. Obama's History in the Illinois Senate
19. FBI: Justifiable homicides at highest in more than a decade
20. Madonna's Controversial Gun Shoes
21. Gun shows and events!


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1. Virginia State Forests preparing petition on allowing carry
**************************************************

Thanks to Bob Taylor for bringing 4 VAC 10-30-170 to my attention.
That Virginia Admin code says:

http://www.dof.virginia.gov/stforest/regulations.shtml

"No person shall bring into or have in any forest any explosive or
explosive substance, except commercial sporting firearms ammunition;
explosives, explosive substances and firearms of all types are
prohibited in any portion of a forest assigned to the Department of
Forestry, for administration as a recreational area."

A couple of weeks ago I contacted Ron Jenkins, who handles policy for
State Forests, about this issue. I told Mr. Jenkins that the same two
Attorney General opinions that say that State Parks cannot prohibit
either open carry or concealed carry would apply to State Forests, too.

Mr. Jenkins, who was very polite and professional, said he would look
into the matter.

I forwarded him an email with a more formal petition and links to the
two AG opinions referenced above.

EM Mike Stollerwerk has discovered that State Forests are getting
ready to vet the VCDL petition. (Like other State agencies, before
State Forests changes its rules, it notifies and gets input from the
public on the proposed change.)

For now, there is nothing to do. I will let you know when we can
begin sending supporting emails for the petition and where to send them.

Here is a link to the petition information:

http://www.townhall.virginia.gov/l/viewpetition.cfm?petitionid=64

Petition Title Allowing the Lawful Carry of Handguns on State Forests
Date Filed 10/7/2008
Petitioner Philip Van Cleave, President Virginia Citizens Defense
League
Petitioner's Request

The Virginia Citizens Defense League is asking the State Forester to
change the current regulation to allow the otherwise lawful carry of
handguns, either concealed with a concealed handgun permit or openly,
in a state forest.

Agency's Plan

The Department of Forestry shall submit notice of the petition to the
Registrar for publication in the Virginia Register. The notice will
be available for a 21-day comment period by the public. After the
close of the 21-day comment period, the agency will issue a written
decision as to whether it will grant or deny the petition.

Comment Period Will begin 11/10/2008 and end on 12/2/2008
Agency Decision Pending

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2. It's time to order your VCDL license plates!
**************************************************

We need to get moving on this so we have all of our ducks in a row
before the General Assembly session starts in January! We need to
have orders for at least 350 plates by then.

Instructions on how to order the plates and an image of the plate are
here:

http://www.vcdl.org/index.html#Plates

**************************************************
3. Goochland rally has sounds of freedom ringing in the background /
National Parks vote coming?
**************************************************

On Saturday Board member Dennis O'Connor and I attended the Goochland
Republican Committee rally to thank them for specifically welcoming
gun owners.

Congressman Eric Cantor and Jim Gilmore's wife, Roxane, spoke to the
assembled crowd.

The rally was held at a private hunting preserve and a few times when
Congressman Cantor paused while addressing the crowd on various
issues, including the Second Amendment, gun shots could be heard in
the distance. That evoked more than a few chuckles from the crowd at
the appropriateness of the timing of those shots. ;-)

I also had a chance to speak to Congressman Cantor about getting some
legislation passed to allow carry in National Parks, as the Department
of the Interior seems to be dragging its heals. He was receptive and
said he would look into the status of the bills repealing the National
Park gun ban.

**BREAKING NEWS: Just got this link, which says Congressional vote on
carry in National Parks is scheduled for November 1!**

http://tinyurl.com/567rze

Bearing Arms in National Parks
Doublethink Online
by Kathryn Ciano | October 15, 2008

Lost in all the noise about the ongoing bail-out is an important vote
before Congress, slated for November 1, on a controversial plan to
overturn the ban on guns in National Parks. The proposed new rule
would lift the ban only in National Parks located in states that allow
concealed carry in their own State Parks. It’s not just about the
Second Amendment, however. People’s lives are increasingly at risk
from marauding drug dealers who grow vast quantities of marijuana on
federal parkland and jealously defend their turf.

Since 1983, the Department of the Interior has prohibited people from
carrying firearms into lands controlled by the National Park Service
and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. This rule correctly separates
laws governing federal lands from those of surrounding states—
federalism dictates that state laws should not automatically apply to
federal land within its borders. However, in the recent Heller
ruling, the Supreme Court upheld the individual’s right to bear arms
on federal territory (the District of Columbia), thereby calling into
question the validity of the park ban on Constitutional grounds.

In overturning the District’s gun ban this summer, the Court did not
rule on whether states have to respect the Second Amendment. However
it’s now clear that individuals can successfully defend their
Constitutional rights on federal land. While D.C.’s reluctance to
accept the Court’s ruling may be annoying—guns still must remain
disassembled until an intruder actually breaks in, and the District
rejected Heller’s own application to purchase a firearm—the legal
writing is clearly on the wall for the nationwide park ban.

Yet the ban cannot be lifted soon enough.

The National Park Service claims that the gun ban protects park
visitors from violent crime. But gun bans only affect law-abiding
citizens, leaving them defenseless against armed criminals who ignore
the laws. While park rangers wear bulletproof vests at all times and
travel with guns on their persons or vehicles, the National Park
Service denies such protection to campers and hikers. Indeed, the Park
Service withholds research permits until researchers sign waivers
acknowledging that the National Park Service cannot protect them.

According to the White House January 2008 drug policy report, armed
drug traffickers cultivate most American marijuana grown outdoors in
National Parks. Worth billions of dollars, 80% of the marijuana plants
officials eradicated from federal lands in 2007 grew in National Park
areas of California and Kentucky.

Since the 9/11 terrorist attacks, drug smugglers cannot easily
transport drugs across tightened US borders. Instead, cartels bring
cultivators into the US to grow marijuana in remote, sparsely policed
federal lands. Criminal drug trafficking organizations headquartered
abroad supply workers with weapons and materials necessary to maintain
these extensive operations. These workers clear cut native trees,
poach and hunt wildlife, divert natural waterways to irrigate the
land, and devastate the soil with pesticides, herbicides, and
fertilizers. National Park officials estimate that traffickers destroy
ten acres of forest for each acre of cultivated marijuana.

Traffickers live close to their crops, often less than one hundred
yards off the trail, growing intimate with the land and rangers’
schedules. While parks are still relatively peaceful places, an
increasing amount of violence occurs when unsuspecting tourists
stumble upon these plantations and are menaced by the drug farmers.
These criminals know that tourists are not armed, and have been known
to detain and threaten hikers.

A repeal of this dangerous and unconstitutional law is within reach.
The November 1 vote is on a Department of the Interior proposal
repealing the ban in National Parks located in states that permit
concealed carry. Forty-eight Senators support the right to bear arms
on federal land and will likely support this measure.

Last week, the Pennsylvania Legislature passed HB-1845, overruling the
Pennsylvania State Park firearm carry ban. Pennsylvania is signaling
approval of the proposed national policy, and has tailored its own
law, ensuring that National Parks in Pennsylvania qualify for the
National Park gun ban repeal.

Yet the Interior Department has specifically prohibited Park Service
employees from commenting on the proposed change. Conflicting evidence
regarding crime statistics surrounds these obscure but ominous
problems facing our National Parks. The Interior Department should
weigh rangers’ comments at least as heavily as those from the general
public.

Since the Supreme Court categorized the right to bear arms as a
fundamental individual right, both the Congress and the Department of
the Interior should consider this federal precedent and the dozens of
state cases decided since then. Pennsylvania’s commitment to
individual liberties further signals state support for this federal
policy.

We need to ensure that our National Parks remain safe, allowing us to
enjoy the grandeur of nature that is our inheritance. Depriving law-
abiding citizens of another hard-won inheritance, the right to bear
arms, is at best counterproductive.

-Kathryn Ciano is a law student in Virginia.

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4. Gun rights advocate will be prosecuted in Norfolk case
**************************************************

Sometimes when a story is initially put out on the web, a paper might
update it. That's because they are initially trying to get the story
out there and later fix it up to match the final printed version. In
this case, the article has several things added and others removed
from what was posted last week:

http://tinyurl.com/4ykp4v

By Harry Minium
The Virginian-Pilot October 15, 2008

NORFOLK The city will prosecute a trespassing charge against Hampton
resident Dan Moore after he was ordered to leave Waterside last week
for wearing a gun on his hip, and according to police, refused to leave.

Although the retail complex has received millions of taxpayer dollars,
it is a private institution that has the right to ban guns, City
Attorney Bernard A. Pishko said.

In Virginia, it is legal to carry a handgun in public.

"Waterside is a commercial venture, with restaurants and shops,"
Pishko said. "This is not the kind of activity you would expect to
find in a public building."

Moore, who has had several brushes with Norfolk police over his right
to carry a gun, attended a City Council meeting on Oct. 8. He and
members of the Virginia Citizens Defense League told the council that
they were upset about how they were being treated by police.

Later that night, Moore and other members of the group were leaving a
Waterside restaurant when they were stopped by an off-duty Norfolk
police officer. They were all wearing guns. Moore was the only one
arrested.

He is scheduled to appear in General District Court on Nov. 14. He
could face up to a year in jail and a hefty fine if convicted of the
misdemeanor.

Moore said Wednesday that he plans to contest the charge because
Waterside is owned by taxpayers.

"The city is talking about tearing it down because it's not making
enough money," he said. "There is no question that it is city property."

Moore also said the arresting officer told him that he could not carry
a gun inside Waterside because it is a public place. However, he
denies refusing to leave Waterside.

No judge will consider Waterside private property, said Philip Van
Cleave, who heads the gun rights group. "The city has a big stake in
that building. I think the city attorney is doing a lot of wishful
thinking."

Twice before, Moore said he has been illegally stopped and questioned
by Norfolk police. After the first incident a year ago, when he was
detained while downtown, the city paid Moore $10,000 to avoid a lawsuit.

City officials say that although Moore and others who openly carry
guns downtown are within their rights, they have done so brazenly in
an attempt to attract attention. This time, Moore violated the law and
his judgment "could end up costing him," Pishko said.

Pishko's office rarely sends attorneys to prosecute misdemeanors, but
Pishko said they will handle this case because of its high profile
nature and the precedent it could set.

Van Cleave said his group may help Moore pay for legal representation.
"He stood up to the city, and we certainly can't have that, can we?"
Van Cleave asked sarcastically.
"Unfortunately, I've come to expect no less from Norfolk."

**************************************************
5. Female reporter feels safer with armed citizens around
**************************************************

Kerry Dougherty, a conservative columnist for the Virginian-Pilot,
wrote this article about Danladi Moore's latest situation with Norfolk:

http://tinyurl.com/54cbzj

The Virginian-Pilot October 15, 2008
Kerry Dougherty
Virginian-Pilot columnist

A woman alone. After dark. In downtown Norfolk.

A recipe for fear?

Not last Tuesday. Safest place in town, I thought as I pulled into the
dimly lit parking garage behind City Hall.

It was, after all, Dirty Harry Night at Norfolk City Council. Dozens
of law-abiding gun owners were expected, all openly packing heat, to
protest the city's alleged harassment of a gun owner who had been
stopped several times for carrying a weapon.

The man in the bull's-eye is Danladi Moore, a 24-year-old Hampton man
who seems to get in trouble every time he comes to Norfolk. After two
encounters with the city's police, Moore was awarded $10,000 in July,
to avoid a court battle.

The security guard barely had time to spend the loot before he says he
was booted from an HRT bus - again, for carrying a weapon - and told
he might be arrested.

On Tuesday night, just hours after he and others testified before a
stone-faced City Council and received assurances that Norfolk police
understood Virginia's gun laws, Moore was stopped again.

He claims he was disarmed, handcuffed and charged with trespassing at
Waterside.

Cha-ching.

"Open-carry" is a concept that's alien to many. While everyone seems
to know that the commonwealth issues permits to carry concealed
weapons, many don't know that anyone who can legally own a gun can
carry it without a permit, provided it's in the open.

Ignorance of the law explains the panicky 911 calls to report Moore
poking around town with a holstered sidearm.

But it doesn't justify a police response that, according to Moore,
resulted in officers hassling him and insisting he had no right to
carry a weapon.

Why open-carry? Some say it's the comfortable way to carry a gun when
it's hot. Others insist that a visible weapon is a powerful crime
deterrent.

"Someone said they thought guys who open-carry are trying to look
cool," Moore told me Wednesday. "That's not me. I'm trying to look
like a guy who doesn't want to be robbed."

Moore believes he may have thwarted a convenience store holdup once
when a suspicious person left after spying his gun.

His latest brush with authorities came after a knot of the open-carry
guys headed to Hooters at the conclusion of the council meeting. Most
sported weapons, yet their accessories reportedly attracted no
attention in the restaurant. No surprise there; no one looks at men at
Hooters.

Later, in Waterside, Moore said he and a friend were stopped by two
police officers, told they couldn't bring guns into the complex, and
ordered to leave.

Moore balked and insisted he was within his rights. Within minutes,
Moore claims he was disarmed, handcuffed and charged with trespassing.
He has a court date in November.

Before leaving council chambers Tuesday night, I spoke with Moore and
asked him about his holstered gun.

"It's a Springfield XD .45," he said, adding with a grin, "I bought it
with some of the money I got from Norfolk this summer."

Before this is over, Moore may have a matched set.

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6. Why would you need a gun at a Norfolk school?
**************************************************

http://tinyurl.com/68uxx9

By Amy Jeter
The Virginian-Pilot October 14, 2008

Report: Increase in violence last year in Norfolk schools

NORFOLK The number of student assaults against Norfolk school staff
rose significantly last year, and fighting, gang activity and weapons
violations inched upward, according to a recent report by the school
division.

However, the total number of incidents requiring discipline dropped
from the previous year, as did the number of violations of law and
instances of insubordination.

The report, which will be presented at today's School Board meeting,
comes three days after a Booker T. Washington High School football
game was moved because of a threat to a player, and at a time when
South Hampton Roads parents, students and teachers are concerned about
gang-related violence seeping into schools.

Since school started in the fall, Norfolk has moved two other games
because of fears of gangs, and a football player at Portsmouth's I.C.
Norcom High School was fatally shot. Portsmouth police said they
considered him a gang member.

Six weeks into the school year, some in Norfolk already see signs of
more clashes among students. "I've heard more this year, in this short
period of time, regarding assaults and fights than I did last year at
all," said Marian Flickinger, president of the Norfolk Federation of
Teachers. "Are things going downhill? Or is this an anomaly?"

Louis Fisher, a Maury High School senior, said fights this year have
been different because they tend to be between groups of students.
"Fights usually start - someone's wearing a color that a certain group
of people don't like," he said.

Parents and teachers plan to speak out about violence occurring at
Maury at tonight's meeting, and Superintendent Stephen C. Jones has
prepared a response.

Jones said Norfolk's longer-term discipline statistics don't reflect a
clear upward or downward trend, however.

He blamed the misbehavior of some students on negative cultural
influences and clashes among neighborhood gangs.

"We're in a society where kids act out because it mirrors what they
see the adults doing," Jones said. "We can't spend the kind of time in
values education that I'd like to spend time on."

Assaults on staff members rose to 92 from 59 last year. Michael
Spencer, the school division's chief operations officer, said he
couldn't identify a reason for the jump, even after reviewing many of
the individual case files.

In March, after school officials adopted a new strategy to deal with
assaults on staff, the number of incidents dropped off, Spencer said.

In the past three years, school officials have worked to make
punishments more consistent and to reduce truancy. They're also
addressing trends of student disrespect toward staff members and
increased gang activity in Norfolk's neighborhoods, according to the
report.

Last year, assistant principals and deans of discipline received
special training on such topics as defusing incidents in schools. This
month, they attended a gang prevention training session conducted by
the Norfolk police.

Administrators and parents suggest a variety of potential solutions to
gang issues. Jones said students should be provided alternatives, such
as middle school football, and school staff members should work on
building relationships with students and among them.

Flickinger said she wants to see a stricter enforcement of
consequences and an effective alternative program for the worst
offenders.

Fisher suggested offering more options outside school.

"Keep kids off the street," Fisher, 18, said. "Because if kids aren't
in gangs in the first place, then we won't have it coming into our
school."

**************************************************
7. Assault at William & Mary
**************************************************

Gist of the message to the students at William & Mary -- don't defend
yourself, but if you're still alive after the incident, we will do our
best to help you.

Dear Students,

As we return from Fall Break, I am writing to inform you of a sexual
assault that was reported to William and Mary Police by one of our
women students, and to take this opportunity to remind the community
of important support services available on campus for survivors of
sexual assault.

The incident was reported over the weekend. The student in this case
was off campus in the early morning hours of October 10 when she
accepted a walk home from a friend. Once at her residence hall, the
woman told police, he sexually assaulted in her dorm room. Police are
investigating the crime and we will continue to provide our student
with all the support and assistance we can.

While William and Mary is generally a very safe community, we are not
immune to the types of unfortunate incidents that do occur on college
campuses. Because we are a close-knit community, it is especially
important to know that there are many resources for you or a friend
who might need support. In addition to caring staff members in the
Counseling Center and the Dean of Students Office, William and Mary
has designed a special website to give sexual assault survivors quick,
easy access to information. Posted there (www.wm.edu/sexualassault)
are contacts for immediate help in a crisis, as well as more general
information for the entire campus community about how to help a friend.

The trauma associated with sexual assault is very real and painful. I
know you join me in extending sincerest wishes for our student's
recovery.

Ginger Ambler

Virginia M. Ambler, Ph.D.
Interim Vice President for Student Affairs
The College of William and Mary
757-221-1236 (phone)
757-221-1240 (fax)

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8. Concealed guns at Liberty University?
**************************************************

WDBJ 7 CBS Roanoke
October 10, 2008

http://tinyurl.com/4ajwx4

A group of students at Liberty University is asking the school to
allow concealed weapons on campus.

They want Liberty's Board of Trustees to amend school policy. Right
now, if you have a concealed weapons permit, you're not allowed to
bring a gun to L-U.

If the rules change, Liberty will be one of only two schools in
Virginia to allow concealed weapons on school property.

The Board of Trustees will take up the issue at its next meeting in
March.

L-U Chancellor Jerry Fallwell, Junior sits on that board A
representative says his office is still in the early stages of
considering the proposal.

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9. No surprise: paper comes out against self-defense at university
**************************************************

My comments imbedded below:

http://tinyurl.com/3qmw6s

The News & Advance Lynchburg, VA
October 16, 2008

Do students at Liberty University really need to carry concealed
weapons with them to classes and elsewhere on campus? Do they consider
life on the growing campus so unsafe that they need a pistol to
protect themselves as they make their daily rounds? [PVC: Even if the
campus was the safest in the world, why shouldn't a student or faculty
member still have the means to protect themselves in case the
unthinkable happens? Why must we force students and staff to have to
die if someone like Cho shows up?]

Those are issues that will be brought to the university's board of
trustees next year. It's fine for the trustees to consider the
questions. But let's hope sanity prevails over the discussion. If so,
the board will either not consider a vote allowing concealed weapons
or it will vote against the measure.

The issue came up recently from a student group known as Students for
Concealed Carry on Campus (SCCC). The group has proposed that students
who hold permits to carry concealed weapons be allowed to carry those
weapons on campus.

The university currently does not allow students - including those
with concealed carry permits - to carry a gun on campus. And with good
reason. The presence of concealed weapons on campus can only make life
on that campus more dangerous. [PVC: Oh, hogwash. Where are the
statistics or studies to back that up?]

That has to be part of the reason that students on only a dozen
campuses nationally are allowed to carry concealed weapons. Most of
those campuses are in Utah, which is the only state in the nation that
does not restrict students from carrying concealed weapons on college
campuses. [PVC: Actually, Virginia does NOT restrict firearms on
college campuses. The schools themselves have implemented the
restrictions with threat of loss of job or expulsion for violation of
their rule.]

In the aftermath of the massacre at Virginia Tech in April 2007 in
which a mentally ill student shot and killed 32 students and faculty,
gun rights advocates argued that allowing students to carry concealed
weapons could have reduced the number of fatalities.

Maybe. But at what cost? What about the students and faculty members
caught in the crossfire between those with legal guns and those with
illegal guns? [PVC: Hogwash again. Cross-fire: show me where that
has EVER been a problem in the real world. Just another anti-gun
fantasy.]

Virginia Tech continues to forbid the carrying of weapons on its
campus even by those with concealed weapons permits. [PVC: Non-
students/non-staff can carry there.] Gov. Timothy M. Kaine has also
pointed out that legislation that would force universities to allow
concealed-carry permit holders to bring guns on campus has
consistently drawn opposition from college administrators. [PVC:
Yes, because those college administrators simply don't understand the
issue.]

For good reason. The addition of more guns on college campuses - even
those that are carried legally - would only add to the unsafe
conditions created by the presence of guns. [PVC: Guns, in and of
themselves, do not make conditions safe or unsafe.] It is not likely
that the state wants to create armed fortresses in college dormitories
and classrooms. [PVC: If someone like Cho was storming your
classroom you would damn well wish that your room could be quickly
turned into an armed fortress!!!]

Nor should that be the case in the state's private colleges and
universities, although those schools are allowed to permit concealed
weapons if they want guns on their campuses.

Under Virginia law, students must be at least 21 to apply for a
concealed handgun permit. Those permits are granted by circuit judges
based on the applicant's ability to persuade the judge he or she needs
to have such a permit for security. How would an LU student explain
the need for a permit to carry such a weapon? [PVC: WHAT?!?!?? Was
no research done for this? In Virginia you do NOT have to show ANY
need WHATSOEVER to get a concealed handgun permit. The assumed need
is that you want to live if you are attacked by a criminal.]

In agreeing to present the question to the trustees, Chancellor Jerry
Falwell Jr. said members of Liberty's chapter of the SCCC made the
request. "I really don't have a good feel for whether our community
would support it or not," he said. "So I just decided to take it to
the board."

Falwell added that leading up to the meeting, which will not be held
until next March, board members will be provided information gathered
from students and faculty on the proposal. He said the board would
also have to consider how difficult the process is to get a permit to
carry a concealed weapon.

If campus security is a concern, as the SCCC members have indicated it
is, Liberty should hire more police with firearms to protect the
students and faculty. [PVC: Wait a second! Near the beginning of
this Opinion, the Editors said that more guns would make things more
dangerous on campus. Now they're saying more guns (in the hands of
the police) are ok? Guess that's because the police won't be there
when a tragic incident occurs so their guns won't be used.]

That would be far more prudent than allowing students and others with
permits to carry firearms to class. [PVC: All those police at
Virginia Tech didn't save the 32 innocent lives that were violently
stolen.]

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10. VCDL helps kill Hanover's proposed weapons ordinances
**************************************************

More coverage on the Hanover rejection of gun-control measures last
week:

http://tinyurl.com/6eu6r2

By Melody Kinser Mechanicsburg Local
Oct 15, 2008

Residents speak out - most in opposition - to measures considered by
supervisors

Shot down.

That's what the Hanover County Board of Supervisors did last Wednesday
night to two ordinances - one including weapons - following a combined
public hearing that attracted a courtroom full of citizens.

About 30 residents addressed the supervisors, with most opposing the
weapons ordinance, as well as a noise ordinance.

The ordinances - No. 08-23 to prohibit the discharge of weapons within
the Urban Service Area and within 200 yards of a residence or public
gathering place outside the Urban Service Area and No. 08-24 to
include a provision relating to the frequent, habitual or prolonged
discharge of firearms and to clarify the provisions related to
enforcement - failed in a unanimous vote shortly after nearly two
hours of public comment.

Supervisor Charles D. McGhee of the Henry District, who chaired the
Weapons Safety Committee, made the motion to "not adopt any changes"
and "leave in place" existing ordinances, which date back to 1964.

County Attorney Sterling E. Rives III, who also served on the
committee, said the supervisors formed a committee to consider both
issues on Jan. 9.

During a July 23 workshop, he said the supervisors agreed to change
the penalty from a Class 1 felony with a $5,000 fine and two-year jail
term to a misdemeanor with a fine up to $1,000. [PVC: Member Rob
Seastrom pointed out that the Class 1 felony does not have a two-year
jail term and $5,000 fine. Reporter may have gotten his facts wrong.]

The noise issue, stemming from a complaint involving barking dogs,
became controversial in terms of enforcement.

Hanover County Sheriff V. Stuart Cook was the first to approach the
podium. He specifically said he opposed the noise ordinance, with
support from Commonwealth's Attorney R.E. "Trip" Chalkley, because it
would be "nearly impossible to enforce or prosecute." He said a
majority of the county is still rural and questioned how his deputies
could define or determine frequent or habitual.

Chalkley followed, saying he too had a "severe problem with the noise
ordinance. I do not think this law can be successfully prosecuted."
And, that, he added, "makes it a bad law."

Hawthorne Davis, who lives in the Cold Harbor District, called the
measures "quantitive rather than subjective." He said the "200-yard
thing is unreasonable."

"Much to my chagrin," Gilbert Elliott said, much of his property in
the Henry District "lies within the Urban Service Area." He said his
five acres are zoned agricultural, yet he drives "down two dirt roads
to get to my house." He noted his Second Amendment rights (to keep and
bear arms) and said the county should provide free safety classes.

Jerry Sexton, from the South Anna District, told the supervisors that
the 200 barking dogs his neighbor has "is abnormal" in expressing
interest in the noise ordinance.

Philip Van Cleave of Chesterfield, who serves as president of the
Virginia Citizens Defense League, said his 4,800-member organization
is "very concerned about our rights." Ordinances such as those that
were being proposed, he said, are making it "so difficult to shoot."

"Totally against" were the words spoken by South Anna District
resident Donald Talley.

Bruce Blackley of Montpelier said he moved to Hanover County about 11
years ago from Northern Virginia. As for the restrictions, he said,
"This is the thing you could expect to find in Northern Virginia."

John Ostergren Jr., who resides in the Ashland District, said the
noise ordinance was "vague and subjective," adding he agreed with the
sheriff.

Chris Branson, of the South Anna District, said, "I oppose both of
them.'

He cited the matter of dogs barking in the noise ordinance, saying,
"We're a rural area [so you can expect to hear them]."

Clarence Hunter Sr., of the Henry District, said he had appeared
before the Board of Supervisors in January 2007 when he requested an
amendment after a new neighbor started "target shooting in his back
yard."

"Please approve the recommendations," he said, adding there was a
December 2007 report from the Sheriff's Office concerning several
complaints.

Attorney Michael Clower, of Ashland, said he was "very much against
this ordinance" and called it "a gun rights bill."

"This is nothing but anti-gun legislation," he added.

Tom Willett, who lives in the South Anna District, said he was
"against both ordinances," claiming "Second Amendment encroachment. I
still believe we should have the right to bear arms."

Jan Clement, of the Beaverdam District, favored both ordinances,
saying they "embody safety and common courtesy. It's only a minor
inconvenience to drive to a shooting range."

Beaverdam District resident Maurice Redding said it was "a privilege
and a right to target shoot in Hanover County. I should be able to do
it wherever hunting is legal."

"It's a property rights issue," said Scott Greg, of the Henry District.

In urging opposition to the ordinances, Mark Huffman, of the Henry
District, pointed out that the membership is full at both shooting
ranges in the area.

Glenn Millican, of the Mechanicsville District, talked about the
"natural wonderful world of the outdoors," saying that archery is a
family sport.

The public hearing wrapped up with Rives saying the supervisors had
the prerogative to approve both ordinances, one or neither.

And, in the span of minutes, McGhee had made the motion, there was a
vote and a crowd that often applauded the comments left the auditorium
- with most feeling victorious.

imported post

**************************************************
6. Why would you need a gun at a Norfolk school?
**************************************************

http://tinyurl.com/68uxx9

By Amy Jeter
The Virginian-Pilot October 14, 2008

Report: Increase in violence last year in Norfolk schools

NORFOLK The number of student assaults against Norfolk school staff
rose significantly last year, and fighting, gang activity and weapons
violations inched upward, according to a recent report by the school
division.

However, the total number of incidents requiring discipline dropped
from the previous year, as did the number of violations of law and
instances of insubordination.

The report, which will be presented at today's School Board meeting,
comes three days after a Booker T. Washington High School football
game was moved because of a threat to a player, and at a time when
South Hampton Roads parents, students and teachers are concerned about
gang-related violence seeping into schools.

Since school started in the fall, Norfolk has moved two other games
because of fears of gangs, and a football player at Portsmouth's I.C.
Norcom High School was fatally shot. Portsmouth police said they
considered him a gang member.

Six weeks into the school year, some in Norfolk already see signs of
more clashes among students. "I've heard more this year, in this short
period of time, regarding assaults and fights than I did last year at
all," said Marian Flickinger, president of the Norfolk Federation of
Teachers. "Are things going downhill? Or is this an anomaly?"

Louis Fisher, a Maury High School senior, said fights this year have
been different because they tend to be between groups of students.
"Fights usually start - someone's wearing a color that a certain group
of people don't like," he said.

Parents and teachers plan to speak out about violence occurring at
Maury at tonight's meeting, and Superintendent Stephen C. Jones has
prepared a response.

Jones said Norfolk's longer-term discipline statistics don't reflect a
clear upward or downward trend, however.

He blamed the misbehavior of some students on negative cultural
influences and clashes among neighborhood gangs.

"We're in a society where kids act out because it mirrors what they
see the adults doing," Jones said. "We can't spend the kind of time in
values education that I'd like to spend time on."

Assaults on staff members rose to 92 from 59 last year. Michael
Spencer, the school division's chief operations officer, said he
couldn't identify a reason for the jump, even after reviewing many of
the individual case files.

In March, after school officials adopted a new strategy to deal with
assaults on staff, the number of incidents dropped off, Spencer said.

In the past three years, school officials have worked to make
punishments more consistent and to reduce truancy. They're also
addressing trends of student disrespect toward staff members and
increased gang activity in Norfolk's neighborhoods, according to the
report.

Last year, assistant principals and deans of discipline received
special training on such topics as defusing incidents in schools. This
month, they attended a gang prevention training session conducted by
the Norfolk police.

Administrators and parents suggest a variety of potential solutions to
gang issues. Jones said students should be provided alternatives, such
as middle school football, and school staff members should work on
building relationships with students and among them.

Flickinger said she wants to see a stricter enforcement of
consequences and an effective alternative program for the worst
offenders.

Fisher suggested offering more options outside school.

"Keep kids off the street," Fisher, 18, said. "Because if kids aren't
in gangs in the first place, then we won't have it coming into our
school."

**************************************************
7. Assault at William & Mary
**************************************************

Gist of the message to the students at William & Mary -- don't defend
yourself, but if you're still alive after the incident, we will do our
best to help you.

Dear Students,

As we return from Fall Break, I am writing to inform you of a sexual
assault that was reported to William and Mary Police by one of our
women students, and to take this opportunity to remind the community
of important support services available on campus for survivors of
sexual assault.

The incident was reported over the weekend. The student in this case
was off campus in the early morning hours of October 10 when she
accepted a walk home from a friend. Once at her residence hall, the
woman told police, he sexually assaulted in her dorm room. Police are
investigating the crime and we will continue to provide our student
with all the support and assistance we can.

While William and Mary is generally a very safe community, we are not
immune to the types of unfortunate incidents that do occur on college
campuses. Because we are a close-knit community, it is especially
important to know that there are many resources for you or a friend
who might need support. In addition to caring staff members in the
Counseling Center and the Dean of Students Office, William and Mary
has designed a special website to give sexual assault survivors quick,
easy access to information. Posted there (www.wm.edu/sexualassault)
are contacts for immediate help in a crisis, as well as more general
information for the entire campus community about how to help a friend.

The trauma associated with sexual assault is very real and painful. I
know you join me in extending sincerest wishes for our student's
recovery.

Ginger Ambler

Virginia M. Ambler, Ph.D.
Interim Vice President for Student Affairs
The College of William and Mary
757-221-1236 (phone)
757-221-1240 (fax)

**************************************************
8. Concealed guns at Liberty University?
**************************************************

WDBJ 7 CBS Roanoke
October 10, 2008

http://tinyurl.com/4ajwx4

A group of students at Liberty University is asking the school to
allow concealed weapons on campus.

They want Liberty's Board of Trustees to amend school policy. Right
now, if you have a concealed weapons permit, you're not allowed to
bring a gun to L-U.

If the rules change, Liberty will be one of only two schools in
Virginia to allow concealed weapons on school property.

The Board of Trustees will take up the issue at its next meeting in
March.

L-U Chancellor Jerry Fallwell, Junior sits on that board A
representative says his office is still in the early stages of
considering the proposal.

**************************************************
9. No surprise: paper comes out against self-defense at university
**************************************************

My comments imbedded below:

http://tinyurl.com/3qmw6s

The News & Advance Lynchburg, VA
October 16, 2008

Do students at Liberty University really need to carry concealed
weapons with them to classes and elsewhere on campus? Do they consider
life on the growing campus so unsafe that they need a pistol to
protect themselves as they make their daily rounds? [PVC: Even if the
campus was the safest in the world, why shouldn't a student or faculty
member still have the means to protect themselves in case the
unthinkable happens? Why must we force students and staff to have to
die if someone like Cho shows up?]

Those are issues that will be brought to the university's board of
trustees next year. It's fine for the trustees to consider the
questions. But let's hope sanity prevails over the discussion. If so,
the board will either not consider a vote allowing concealed weapons
or it will vote against the measure.

The issue came up recently from a student group known as Students for
Concealed Carry on Campus (SCCC). The group has proposed that students
who hold permits to carry concealed weapons be allowed to carry those
weapons on campus.

The university currently does not allow students - including those
with concealed carry permits - to carry a gun on campus. And with good
reason. The presence of concealed weapons on campus can only make life
on that campus more dangerous. [PVC: Oh, hogwash. Where are the
statistics or studies to back that up?]

That has to be part of the reason that students on only a dozen
campuses nationally are allowed to carry concealed weapons. Most of
those campuses are in Utah, which is the only state in the nation that
does not restrict students from carrying concealed weapons on college
campuses. [PVC: Actually, Virginia does NOT restrict firearms on
college campuses. The schools themselves have implemented the
restrictions with threat of loss of job or expulsion for violation of
their rule.]

In the aftermath of the massacre at Virginia Tech in April 2007 in
which a mentally ill student shot and killed 32 students and faculty,
gun rights advocates argued that allowing students to carry concealed
weapons could have reduced the number of fatalities.

Maybe. But at what cost? What about the students and faculty members
caught in the crossfire between those with legal guns and those with
illegal guns? [PVC: Hogwash again. Cross-fire: show me where that
has EVER been a problem in the real world. Just another anti-gun
fantasy.]

Virginia Tech continues to forbid the carrying of weapons on its
campus even by those with concealed weapons permits. [PVC: Non-
students/non-staff can carry there.] Gov. Timothy M. Kaine has also
pointed out that legislation that would force universities to allow
concealed-carry permit holders to bring guns on campus has
consistently drawn opposition from college administrators. [PVC:
Yes, because those college administrators simply don't understand the
issue.]

For good reason. The addition of more guns on college campuses - even
those that are carried legally - would only add to the unsafe
conditions created by the presence of guns. [PVC: Guns, in and of
themselves, do not make conditions safe or unsafe.] It is not likely
that the state wants to create armed fortresses in college dormitories
and classrooms. [PVC: If someone like Cho was storming your
classroom you would damn well wish that your room could be quickly
turned into an armed fortress!!!]

Nor should that be the case in the state's private colleges and
universities, although those schools are allowed to permit concealed
weapons if they want guns on their campuses.

Under Virginia law, students must be at least 21 to apply for a
concealed handgun permit. Those permits are granted by circuit judges
based on the applicant's ability to persuade the judge he or she needs
to have such a permit for security. How would an LU student explain
the need for a permit to carry such a weapon? [PVC: WHAT?!?!?? Was
no research done for this? In Virginia you do NOT have to show ANY
need WHATSOEVER to get a concealed handgun permit. The assumed need
is that you want to live if you are attacked by a criminal.]

In agreeing to present the question to the trustees, Chancellor Jerry
Falwell Jr. said members of Liberty's chapter of the SCCC made the
request. "I really don't have a good feel for whether our community
would support it or not," he said. "So I just decided to take it to
the board."

Falwell added that leading up to the meeting, which will not be held
until next March, board members will be provided information gathered
from students and faculty on the proposal. He said the board would
also have to consider how difficult the process is to get a permit to
carry a concealed weapon.

If campus security is a concern, as the SCCC members have indicated it
is, Liberty should hire more police with firearms to protect the
students and faculty. [PVC: Wait a second! Near the beginning of
this Opinion, the Editors said that more guns would make things more
dangerous on campus. Now they're saying more guns (in the hands of
the police) are ok? Guess that's because the police won't be there
when a tragic incident occurs so their guns won't be used.]

That would be far more prudent than allowing students and others with
permits to carry firearms to class. [PVC: All those police at
Virginia Tech didn't save the 32 innocent lives that were violently
stolen.]

**************************************************
10. VCDL helps kill Hanover's proposed weapons ordinances
**************************************************

More coverage on the Hanover rejection of gun-control measures last
week:

http://tinyurl.com/6eu6r2

By Melody Kinser Mechanicsburg Local
Oct 15, 2008

Residents speak out - most in opposition - to measures considered by
supervisors

Shot down.

That's what the Hanover County Board of Supervisors did last Wednesday
night to two ordinances - one including weapons - following a combined
public hearing that attracted a courtroom full of citizens.

About 30 residents addressed the supervisors, with most opposing the
weapons ordinance, as well as a noise ordinance.

The ordinances - No. 08-23 to prohibit the discharge of weapons within
the Urban Service Area and within 200 yards of a residence or public
gathering place outside the Urban Service Area and No. 08-24 to
include a provision relating to the frequent, habitual or prolonged
discharge of firearms and to clarify the provisions related to
enforcement - failed in a unanimous vote shortly after nearly two
hours of public comment.

Supervisor Charles D. McGhee of the Henry District, who chaired the
Weapons Safety Committee, made the motion to "not adopt any changes"
and "leave in place" existing ordinances, which date back to 1964.

County Attorney Sterling E. Rives III, who also served on the
committee, said the supervisors formed a committee to consider both
issues on Jan. 9.

During a July 23 workshop, he said the supervisors agreed to change
the penalty from a Class 1 felony with a $5,000 fine and two-year jail
term to a misdemeanor with a fine up to $1,000. [PVC: Member Rob
Seastrom pointed out that the Class 1 felony does not have a two-year
jail term and $5,000 fine. Reporter may have gotten his facts wrong.]

The noise issue, stemming from a complaint involving barking dogs,
became controversial in terms of enforcement.

Hanover County Sheriff V. Stuart Cook was the first to approach the
podium. He specifically said he opposed the noise ordinance, with
support from Commonwealth's Attorney R.E. "Trip" Chalkley, because it
would be "nearly impossible to enforce or prosecute." He said a
majority of the county is still rural and questioned how his deputies
could define or determine frequent or habitual.

Chalkley followed, saying he too had a "severe problem with the noise
ordinance. I do not think this law can be successfully prosecuted."
And, that, he added, "makes it a bad law."

Hawthorne Davis, who lives in the Cold Harbor District, called the
measures "quantitive rather than subjective." He said the "200-yard
thing is unreasonable."

"Much to my chagrin," Gilbert Elliott said, much of his property in
the Henry District "lies within the Urban Service Area." He said his
five acres are zoned agricultural, yet he drives "down two dirt roads
to get to my house." He noted his Second Amendment rights (to keep and
bear arms) and said the county should provide free safety classes.

Jerry Sexton, from the South Anna District, told the supervisors that
the 200 barking dogs his neighbor has "is abnormal" in expressing
interest in the noise ordinance.

Philip Van Cleave of Chesterfield, who serves as president of the
Virginia Citizens Defense League, said his 4,800-member organization
is "very concerned about our rights." Ordinances such as those that
were being proposed, he said, are making it "so difficult to shoot."

"Totally against" were the words spoken by South Anna District
resident Donald Talley.

Bruce Blackley of Montpelier said he moved to Hanover County about 11
years ago from Northern Virginia. As for the restrictions, he said,
"This is the thing you could expect to find in Northern Virginia."

John Ostergren Jr., who resides in the Ashland District, said the
noise ordinance was "vague and subjective," adding he agreed with the
sheriff.

Chris Branson, of the South Anna District, said, "I oppose both of
them.'

He cited the matter of dogs barking in the noise ordinance, saying,
"We're a rural area [so you can expect to hear them]."

Clarence Hunter Sr., of the Henry District, said he had appeared
before the Board of Supervisors in January 2007 when he requested an
amendment after a new neighbor started "target shooting in his back
yard."

"Please approve the recommendations," he said, adding there was a
December 2007 report from the Sheriff's Office concerning several
complaints.

Attorney Michael Clower, of Ashland, said he was "very much against
this ordinance" and called it "a gun rights bill."

"This is nothing but anti-gun legislation," he added.

Tom Willett, who lives in the South Anna District, said he was
"against both ordinances," claiming "Second Amendment encroachment. I
still believe we should have the right to bear arms."

Jan Clement, of the Beaverdam District, favored both ordinances,
saying they "embody safety and common courtesy. It's only a minor
inconvenience to drive to a shooting range."

Beaverdam District resident Maurice Redding said it was "a privilege
and a right to target shoot in Hanover County. I should be able to do
it wherever hunting is legal."

"It's a property rights issue," said Scott Greg, of the Henry District.

In urging opposition to the ordinances, Mark Huffman, of the Henry
District, pointed out that the membership is full at both shooting
ranges in the area.

Glenn Millican, of the Mechanicsville District, talked about the
"natural wonderful world of the outdoors," saying that archery is a
family sport.

The public hearing wrapped up with Rives saying the supervisors had
the prerogative to approve both ordinances, one or neither.

And, in the span of minutes, McGhee had made the motion, there was a
vote and a crowd that often applauded the comments left the auditorium
- with most feeling victorious.

**************************************************
11. Poquoson City Council works to clear invalid ordinances
**************************************************

Member Mike Welker works with Poquoson mayor and police chief to
update city code. This is how we like to see government and citizens
interacting! Mike wrote:

"I recently moved to Poquoson, and, while conducting research in
preparation for November 4th, discovered the City Council had just
enacted a new ordinance.

Background: Poquoson had an outdated ordinance banning all loaded
firearms on city streets, sidewalks, parks, etc. In preparation for
the impending Poquoson Seafood Festival, our new Police Chief,
approximately a year ago, requested the invalid ordinance be stricken
from the code. The Council asked the City Attorney to review it and
return with a recommendation. This recommendation was passed
following two readings.

While preparing for the election, I reviewed the council's previous
agendas and noticed the reading of a new city ordinance regarding
"weapons". With a simple email request, the City Clerk forwarded a
copy of the ordinance, elaborating that the Council was attempting to
align itself with state code.

I found issues with most of the new ordinance, and decided to address
the Council in person last Tuesday (10/14/2008). While unable to
respond to my interest during the proceedings, nearly every council
member (and potential members in the audience) approached me after the
meeting to apologize and thank me for the information on what was
wrong with the ordinance. The Mayor informed me that the Attorney
would review my stance, and that the Police Chief would be contacting
me the next day.

I spoke with the Chief and following a joint review of 15.2-915 while
on the phone, he will be recommending to the City Manager that all
aspects of this ordinance be removed, with wording related to
enforcing/following the state code replacing it.

It's reassuring to find this kind of honesty and support after all the
headaches in Norfolk.

My kudos to Chief Bowen, Mayor Helsel, and the Poquoson City Council."

And ours, too!

**************************************************
12. Discount for permit holders at Newport News shooting range
**************************************************

Member Ed Walker of Williamsburg sent us this item. He wrote:

"I wanted to pass on an experience I had Sunday at The Marksman in
Newport News. My brothers from out of town and I went to the range to
practice and see who would have bragging rights. I have been to
The Marksman a number of times before, but today I was surprised to
find that, as a CHP holder, I qualified for a discount!! (this is new
for them) They gave it to my brothers (who have NY CHP's) as well. It
worked out to be 25% off the regular rate and made our experience that
much more enjoyable.

I thought you might want to post this so others could benefit from not
only a nice indoor range, but a break in the price of range fees. Who
doesn't want to save a few bucks, right?
The staff at The Marksman are top-notch and they have an armorer who
has done nice work for me in the past."

The link to their site is below.

http://www.the-marksman.com/

**************************************************
13. How to make FOIA requests in Virginia
**************************************************

Sometimes, permit holders have interactions with law enforcement that
could have gone better. Protection of citizens' rights often hinge on
what law enforcement knew and when they knew it, and how information
was transmitted and possibly changed along the way. A powerful tool
in the hands of citizens is the right to request information from our
government via the Freedom of Information Act, or FOIA. Here is how
you can do it.

Virginia like many states has a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA),
codified at Va. Code Section 2.2-3700 et seq. You can read it online at

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+TOC02020000037000000000000

The law provides that all records held by the state government are
open to public inspection unless the agency can cite a law allowing
them to deny you access. You can be charged reasonable fees for the
agency to find the records (memos, papers, emails, recordings,
drawings, etc.) and copy them for you. But remember that no agency
must create a record for you.

As a practical matter, agencies don't want you in their offices
looking through their files, so most will just copy and mail/email you
records you request - they have 5 working days to respond to you, and
if they violate the FOIA, you can sue them to force them to comply and
if you prevail, court's usually award you your attorney's fees. Just
ask EM Mike Stollenwerk who sued Mayor Wilder (and former Virginia
Governor) of Richmond a few years ago for refusing to respond to his
FOIAs over alleged city polices against gun carry at festivals -
Mike's attorney got paid almost $3,000 by Richmond.

Under FOIA, any citizen of Virginia may make a FOIA request. There is
no format required - it can be verbal, or written, or by email. The
easiest way to make this requests is a short and clear email to then
highest official of the target agency likely to be in a position to
make things happen for you on your FOIA request (e.g., Chief of
Police, City Manager, County Executive, Mayor, etc.). Take the time
to keep it simple, business like, and short - nobody likes to read
long messages that beat around the bush. Sometimes it's helpful to
give some brief context, but not if it is a complicated story.

Here is an example for format purposes:

TO: Mayor@SmallTownVA.gov:

FROM: MrGunOwner@myISP.com

SUBJECT: FOIA Request:

Dear Mayor Big Wig:

This is a FOIA request for records (including emails, 911 recordings,
etc.) held by SmallTown pertaining to the dispatching of police to the
SmallTown park on Saturday, October 11, 2008 at approximately 4 PM,
and/or any record of a SmallTown policy banning gun carry at town parks.

I was at the park at the time referenced above walking to my car with
my kids after feeding the ducks at the lake and 2 police cruisers and
some town employees approached me. The police got out and told me it
was good I was leaving because I was carrying a holstered handgun in
violation of park rules. After some brief discussion, the police
acknowledged that I broke no law but informed me that there was a
SmallTown policy that gun carry was not allowed and that if I had
refused to leave, I could be charged with trespassing.

Please respond within 5 days as required by the FOIA, unless you
expect the cost to me for these records to exceed $20, in which case,
notify me of the estimated cost of this request prior to any
production of records. Delivery of these records to me by way of
Email is acceptable to me if convenient for you.

Sincerely,

Gun Owner
101 Main St.
SmallTown, VA 22399
(703) 555-2345

**************************************************
14. D.C.-area tourist attacked with knife at NC Dismal Swamp state park
**************************************************

The reporter captured a key concept, saying some tourists remind us,
" ... as beautiful as this area is, you have to remember you're never
completely safe."

http://tinyurl.com/4hqfy6

Tuesday, October 14, 2008
by: Wayne Carter WVEC-TV 13 Norfolk

Police are searching an area near the Great Dismal Swamp for the
suspect in an assault and attempted robbery.

That attack happened Sunday afternoon at the welcome center on Route
17 in Camden County, North Carolina.

Police say the female victim was grabbed and cut with a knife.
Authorities say the suspect may have been in the area for some time.
Video: Woman knifed on Dismal Swamp nature trail
Larger screen E-mail this clip

13 News has learned that the man was spotted by hikers weeks ago and
reported to park rangers. He's described as wearing white high tops
and camoflage shorts.

North Carolina state park rangers criss-crossed the Intracoastal
Waterway that borders the Dismal Swamp, searching for the man who
caused them to shut down the nature trail for the first time ever.

"Its one of the primary trails and we've had a very safe record so
far," said Ranger Joy Greenwood of North Carolina's Dismal Swamp State
Park.

All that changed Sunday when a woman traveling to North Carolina from
Maryland stopped here and took a walk along the trail. That's when she
says a man rushed up demanded money, and cut her with a knife.

"I was worried about snakes, but I was not worried about attackers,"
said Karen Friel, who is from the DC area. She drove down with her
daughter to explore the same trails now being searched.

"We came to see the Dismal Swamp and it's a beautiful day. I'm sorry
things like that happened," said Friel.

Besides the boat patrols, officers went on foot too, saying even
though this same man has been spotted in the area before, had never
made such a violent move. Rangers think he's still out there somewhere
in the huge Great Dismal Swamp.

"The canal is one of the escape routes, so unless he swam, he's still
up in there," said Greenwood.

While that search continues, those stopping through are definitely
more cautious, saying as beautiful as this area is, you have to
remember you're never completely safe.

"It was very much on my mind, when I stop something might happen. I
think all of us have to be careful. You just don't know," said tourist
Elizabeth McNally.

Authorities on Tuesday released a sketch of a man wanted for
questioning in the case. If you can help identify him, call the Camden
County Sheriff's Office at 252-338-5046 or the NC State Park Office at
252-771-6593.

**************************************************
15. Police Officer gives useful insight of traffic stops of a permit
holder
**************************************************

We don't have a link for this article, which was received via email
from a member:

--

Pulled Over While Carrying... By J. Peters

I am a cop. I stop you for a violation of motor vehicle code or law.
You have a weapon. You have a concealed weapons permit.

What happens now?

I am writing this article as a cop. I am and have been that armed
citizen, but that is not what I want to focus on. I am writing this
article as a guide to dealing with us cops. Now, everyone has a story
about cops. A large majority of those stories may not be what one
could describe as "the most wonderful and joyous occasion in recent
memory".

Realizing that we are always judged as a group, I try not to be "one
of those cops". I have a background in the Marine Corps and grew up
shooting and hunting from my earliest memories. My part time job (most
cops have some other gig) is working in a local gun shop selling
firearms.

I do not question the armed citizen's reasons behind carrying a gun. I
understand and promote the concept of an armed and educated citizenry.
There are differences in how you and I carry and employ weapons and
how we may be involved in a deadly force encounter, but that isn't
what I want to focus on either.

My goal here is to provide food for thought when dealing with a police
encounter on the street or in your vehicle, while you are armed. I
want to do this from my prospective as it may help you to understand
it better. Sometimes in order to see things clearly, we have to see it
from the reverse angle.

Where I work and live, in Michigan, folks who have a concealed pistol
license are required to inform the officer stopping them that they
have a weapon with/on them. They can be subject to a civil infraction
fine if they do not disclose this information. When not carrying the
weapon, they need not do this.

I realize that other states may not require this disclosure to be
made. Some people may say that it is none of my business whether or
not you have your weapon on you or in your car. To a certain extent, I
can understand this. It seems intrusive when you are stopped and
detained on a traffic offense. It certainly seems intrusive when you
get a ticket right?

My question is why not tell the officer? What do you have to lose by
telling me that you have your weapon on you?

Are you lawfully carrying your weapon? Yes.

Is that the reason I stopped you? No.

What are the ramifications of the officer knowing that you have your
weapon on you (lawfully)? Well, I have heard many stories about cops
doing things such as taking possession of the weapon during the course
of the traffic stop. I have heard of officers who may instruct the
weapon to be placed in a visible spot in the vehicle until the stop is
concluded.

I have heard all sorts of stories about the cops that don't even know
how to unload a different weapon than the one that they carry. I do
not do any of these things, and I would not recommend these practices
to other officers.

Truth be told, I very rarely come into contact with concealed pistol
licensees in general. Why? CCW people just don't break the law that
much. Upon occasion, I have stopped those with weapons permits in my
jurisdiction.

My concerns when approaching the vehicle are primarily the occupants
of the car. Traffic is always a secondary concern as is the rest of
the environment of the stop, but that is my problem, not necessarily
yours.

What I look for may be the positioning of the hands. What I like to
see is both hands visible. A good place for the driver is on the
wheel, 10 and 2 if you will. It is easy for me to see this as I
approach from either side of the vehicle.

Passengers in a vehicle who may be armed can place their hands in
their laps if possible. This may seem somewhat remedial, but you would
not believe how many people start digging in their vehicle like they
were mining for gold.

Picture yourself in my situation; just clearing an intensive domestic
assault call or stand off with a suicidal subject and my first traffic
stop afterwards is searching frantically around the car for god knows
what.

1. Don't dig around...

Don't dig around looking for your paperwork, that French fry you
dropped when the lights came on or your kid's pacifier. I do not enjoy
putting you at gunpoint. It is stressful for both of us. We can avoid
this problem by staying put and keep our hands comfortably visible.

I say 'stay put'; I mean stay in the vehicle. I realize that some
jurisdictions may ask you to step from the vehicle. Do so when asked.
Again, this may seem remedial, but someone who exits a car, without
being asked, on a traffic stop gives an impression that he is either
going to do us harm or run from us.

2. Eye Contact...

Make eye contact with the officer. Nothing says "I'm crazy" or "I have
something to hide" like the 1000 yard stare down the roadway. This
behavior has led to several searches, arrests, and some altercations
upon further investigation.

3. Smile!

Like Mr. Rourke of Fantasy Island was fond of saying "Smiles
everybody, smiles!" Make eye contact and smile. It will let the
officer know that he can communicate with you.

4. Keep it hidden...

If you have the gun lying on the seat next to you or in plain sight,
plan on having that muzzle related talk mentioned earlier. We know
that an action beats a reaction almost every time. A visible weapon is
an accessible weapon to a suspect. Concealed Carry means CONCEALED.
Unless regulated by statute, I do not want to see your weapon. It
would seem obvious, but even if you know this officer, this is no time
to play a prank or joke.

I don't come to your work area and play practical jokes on you, do not
do it to me. Your motives may be playful but the results could be
devastating to you and the officer. I have had people do this before.
For the life of me I do not know why and the resulting opinion is that
the officer is a jerk for not getting the joke.

5. Take it easy...

No sudden movements to see if he is paying attention. No furtive
movements to joke around.This may not be a potential lethal force
encounter to you. It is to us, all of the time.

6. When do you tell him?

The time to inform the officer is upon his greeting. Do not say "I
have a gun". Never utter this phrase. Never utter any variation of
this phrase. There is no good that can come from that phrase when said
to an officer. All we hear is "have a gun" and the rest is implied.
The highway can be a noisy place and we may not hear everything you
said.

7. How do you tell him?

Greet him and tell him you have a concealed weapons permit and the
weapon is on your person/in the car.

8. Hand your permit...

Hand him your permit with your operator's license and any required
paperwork like your registration and proof of insurance. The officer
will likely ask where the weapon is. Tell him. There is no reason not
to as long as you are abiding by local and state laws. Do not reach
for the weapon unless asked to do so. Most officers, me included will
not tell you to do this.

9. Then what?

The officer will most likely tell you very specifically to stay put or
give further instructions based on training, experience, and
departmental guidelines or operating procedures. Bear in mind that
some agencies may have procedures and some may not. If you feel that
action was taken that was unnecessary or infringed on your rights,
check into the existence of a guideline or policy in the department
involved.

If you are polite and proper, you may just even get out of a citation.
You may not agree with the citation. This is not the time for that
discussion. There are hearings for that. Even if you get a citation,
thank the officer and be on your way. Take him to court to air your
grievances.

Remember that you are a representative of all the concealed weapons
permit holders out there, just as we are all the same cops. You have a
responsibility to your fellow armed citizens to act in a manner that
reflects well on your peers.

A bad incident involving a permit holder will resound with all the
power that the media can muster. Your good behavior will not make
headlines on a regular basis what so ever, but you may save the day
once in your life.

In that respect, we are a lot alike.

J. Peters is a Law Enforcement Officer with over 10 years experience
as certified officer, and was in the USMC Reserves from 1989-1998.

imported post

**************************************************
16. Will Guns Sink Obama in Va.?
**************************************************

http://tinyurl.com/487rmy

By Tim Craig
Washington Post Oct 13, 2008

The Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence announced today it is
endorsing Sen. Barack Obama's (D-Ill) presidential campaign.

"Senators Obama and Biden know that we make it too easy for dangerous
people to get dangerous weapons in this country," Brady President Paul
Helmke said in a statement. "They know that our weak gun laws have too
many loopholes, which lead to over 30,000 deaths and 70,000 injuries
from guns every year."

But in a state like Virginia, which his home to the National Rifle
Association and more than one million hunters, the endorsement carries
considerable risk. The NRA, which has endorsed GOP nominee John
McCain, is already running ads in Virginia noting that Obama once
supported a ban on handguns in Chicago.

And if Obama has made any gains in rural Virginia, it will be tempting
for Republicans to use the Brady Campaign endorsement to undercut
Obama on the gun issue.

According to the Associated Press, Obama supported a ban on all forms
of semiautomatic weapons and other restrictions on firearms when he
was in the Illinois legislature. Obama now says he is a strong
supporter of the 2nd amendment and will not, as president, seek to
interfere with an individuals' right to own a gun for hunting and self-
protection.

Last year, a legislative committee in Virginia easily defeated an
effort by Gov. Timothy M. Kaine (D) to close the so-called gun show
loophole in the aftermath of the Virginia Tech shootings. The
bipartisan vote sparked little public outcry, reinforcing Virginia's
reputation as a place where gun control doesn't sell.

But in a Washington Post poll last year, nearly six in 10 Virginia
residents say they think the United States should have tougher gun
control laws There is a large gender gap on this issue: Nearly seven
in 10 women favor stricter gun laws, while men are split evenly

Last year, however, former state senator Jeannemarie Devolites Davis
(R) campaigned on the gun control issue in Fairfax County but she
still lost her race. Democratic senate candidate Janet Oleszek also
ran on the gun issue in Fairfax County - she was even endorsed by
several families of the Virginia Tech victims - but she also lost.

**************************************************
17. Anti-Gun-Rights Candidate Could Gut "Heller" Decision
**************************************************

New book from Bloomfield Press and GunLaws.com details correlation
between Obama record and Brady Campaign objectives.

Anti-Gun-Rights Candidate Could Gut "Heller" Decision

Now that Barack Obama has received the endorsement of the Brady
Campaign gun-control group, will the Supreme Court's findings in the
D.C. gun-ban "Heller" case matter?

That's the question experts are asking in the wake of Obama's 11th-
hour support from America's leading gun-ban advocates. The late-date
endorsement was conspicuously absent from most large news outlets.
Those groups have repeatedly claimed that anti-gun-rights agendas were
a key issue in the Democrat election defeats of 2000 and 2004.

"Obama publicly supported Washington D.C.'s total gun ban until the
Supreme Court's 'Heller' case voided it," says Alan Korwin, co-author
of "The Heller Case: Gun Rights Affirmed," which was just released
(see below for news-media review copies). "His opposition to gun
rights is well known and carefully documented in the new book," he
said. Obama swiftly reversed his position after the High Court found
that gun rights belong to individuals, a point also documented in the
new book.

"Before the ban was overturned, Mr. Obama supported the position of
the Court's dissenters -- that gun bans are fine and the Second
Amendment in the Bill of Rights does not protect people, it protects
'collective rights' of states," Korwin notes. That position had little
to support it in the historical record, but was favored by people
seeking to ban firearms from public hands. The "collective rights"
theory, a recent creation, was dismissed with ridicule by the Court
(equating it to Alice in Wonderland). The Amendment itself speaks of
"the security of a free state," and "the right of the people."

As the first book released about the landmark gun-rights decision,
"The Heller Case: Gun Rights Affirmed" describes the events leading up
to the case, and precisely what the Court said, word-for-word and in
plain English. If Obama follows the Court's decree, the civil rights
of the general public should be fairly well safeguarded with respect
to owning and using firearms.

If he instead follows the lead of his endorsers in the Brady Campaign,
gun rights as America has known them for more than two centuries could
easily end. His campaign positions so far suggest the latter, if he is
elected. His widely available voting record is 100% consistent --
voting for every restriction on law-abiding gun use, and against every
proposed protection for innocent individuals.

Virtually all recent gun-law proposals fall into those two categories
-- bans on honest ownership and rights, or support for honest
ownership and rights. New laws targeting criminals are rare, since
every imaginable criminal activity with guns is already against the
law and carries severe penalties.

The only thing left, according to leading experts, is to ban guns for
non-criminals, a policy choice adopted in some circles. Gun bans on
criminals have had embarrassingly little effect on street gangs, the
drug war and career criminals in general. Facing abject failure of
crime-related social policies, and unable to disarm criminals, many
politicians are turning instead to civil-disarmament schemes. Working
against this trend, "Disarm Criminals First" says one campaign slogan
in the Marksmanship Movement.

The three publicly announced elements of the Brady-Obama anti-gun
positions include 1- Ban the freedom to sell firearms from one
innocent person to another, euphemistically called the "gun-show
loophole"; 2- Allow all law enforcement officers to fish through gun-
dealer records looking for paperwork or other violations, and compile
data as they see fit, euphemistically known as "repealing the Tiahart
Amendment" (which prevents them from doing so currently); and 3-
permanently ban an enormous list of perfectly legal firearms and
accessories based on looks, names and operating characteristics,
euphemistically called an "assault-weapons ban."

First, knowledgeable observers know assault is a type of behavior, not
a type of hardware, plus the ban seeks to outlaw all semiautomatic
firearms. Second, it's already completely illegal for criminals to buy
firearms under any circumstances, so the proposed private-sale ban
would only affect innocent citizens. And third, the Tiahart Amendment
protects the innocent from government registries and abuse, so all
three proposals, as noted above, have virtually no effect on stopping
crime, but do crush freedoms Americans currently enjoy.

A long wish list of other gun-freedom repeals have been previously
announced by Brady, Obama and their supporters, but have not shown up
in the candidate's platform yet. See some of them here:

http://www.gunlaws.com/PageNineIndex.htm

and many more here:

http://www.gunlaws.com/Left-wing Gun Plan.htm

including (as listed during the Clinton administration):

THE FIVE YEAR PLAN:

1. National Licensing of all handgun purchases.

2. Licenses for Rifle and Shotgun owners.

3. State Licenses for ownership of firearms.

4. Arsenal Licenses (5 guns and 250 rounds of ammunition).

5. Arsenal License Fees (at least $300.00, with a cap of $1,000.00).

6. Limits on Arsenal Licensing (None in counties with populations of
more than 200,000).

7. Requirement of Federally Approved Storage Safes for all guns.

8. Inspection License. (Gun safe licenses, yearly fee for spot
inspections).

9. Ban on Manufacturing in counties with a population of more than
200,000.

10. Banning all military style firearms.

11. Banning Machine Gun Parts or parts which can be used in a Machine
gun.

12. Banning the carrying a firearm anywhere but home or target range
or in transit from one to the other.

13. Banning replacement parts (manufacturing, sale, possession,
transfer, installation) except barrel, trigger group.

14. Elimination of the Curio Relic list.

15. Control of Ammunition belonging to Certain Surplus Firearms.
(7.62x54R and .303).

16. Eventual Ban of Handgun Possession.

17. Banning of Any ammo that fits military guns (post 1945).

18. Banning of any quantity of smokeless powder or black powder which
would constitute more than the equivalent of 100 rounds of ammunition.

19. Ban the possession of explosive powders of more than 1 kg. at any
one time.

20. Banning of High Powered Ammo or Wounding ammo.

21. A National License for Ammunition.

22. Banning or strict licensing of all re-loading components.

23. National Registration of ammunition or ammo buyers.

24. Requirements of special storage safe for ammunition and licensing.

25. Restricting Gun Ranges to counties with populations less than
200,000.

26. Special Licensing of ranges.

27. Special Range Tax to visitors. ($85.00 per visit per person).

28. Waiting period for rentals on pistol ranges.

29. Banning Gun Shows.

30. Banning of military reenactments.

PLUS:

Ban of all clips holding over 6 bullets.

Elimination of the Dept. of Civilian Marksmanship.

Ban on all realistic replica and toy guns (including "air soft" and
paintball).

The right of gun-violence victims to sue, with financial assistance
from government programs, the gun manufacturers.

Taxes on ammo, dealers, guns, licenses to offset medical costs to
society.

The eventual ban on all semi-automatics regardless of when made or
caliber.

**************************************************
18. Obama's History in the Illinois Senate
**************************************************

Passed on from the Illinois State Rifle Association:

--

Obama's History in the Illinois Senate

Hello, my name is Rich Pearson and I have been active in the firearm
rights movement for over 40 years. For the past 15 years, I have
served in the Illinois state capitol as the chief lobbyist for the
Illinois State Rifle Association.

I lobbied Barack Obama extensively while he was an Illinois State
Senator. As a result of that experience, I know Obama's attitudes
toward guns and gun owners better than anyone. The truth be told, in
all my years in the Capitol I have never met a legislator who harbors
more contempt for the law-abiding firearm owner than does Barack Obama.

Although Obama claims to be an advocate for the 2nd Amendment, his
voting record in the Illinois Senate paints a very different picture.
While a state senator, Obama voted for a bill that would ban nearly
every hunting rifle, shotgun and target rifle owned by Illinois
citizens. That same bill would authorize the state police to raid
homes of gun owners to forcibly confiscate banned guns. Obama
supported a bill that would shut down law-abiding firearm
manufacturers including Springfield Armory, Armalite, Rock River Arms
and Les Baer. Obama also voted for a bill that would prohibit law-
abiding citizens from purchasing more than one gun per month.

Without a doubt, Barack Obama has proven himself to be an enemy of the
law abiding firearm owner. At the same time, Obama has proven himself
to be a friend to the hardened criminal. While a state senator, Obama
voted 4 times against legislation that would allow a homeowner to use
a firearm in defense of home and family.

Does Barack Obama still sound to you like a friend of the law-abiding
gun owner?

And speaking of friends, you can always tell a person by the company
they keep. Obama counts among his friends the Rev. Michael Pfleger - a
renegade Chicago priest who has openly called for the murder of gun
shop owners and pro-gun legislators. Then there is his buddy Richard
Daley, the mayor of Chicago who has declared that if it were up to
him, nobody would be allowed to own a gun. And lets not forget Obamas
pal George Soros - the guy who has pumped millions of dollars into the
UNs international effort to disarm law-abiding citizens.

Obama has shown that he is more than willing to use other peoples
money to fund his campaign to take your guns away from you. While a
board member of the leftist Joyce Foundation, Barack Obama wrote
checks for tens of millions of dollars to extremist gun control
organizations such as the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence
and the Violence Policy Center.

Does Barack Obama still sound to you like a friend of the law-abiding
gun owner?

By now, Im sure that many of you have received mailings from an
organization called American Hunters and Shooters Association(AHSA)
talking about what a swell fellow Obama is and how he honors the 2nd
Amendment and how you will never have to worry about Obama coming to
take your guns. Let me make it perfectly clear - everything the AHSA
says about Obama is pure hogwash. The AHSA is headed by a group of
left-wing elitists who subscribe to the British view of hunting and
shooting. That is, a state of affairs where hunting and shooting are
reserved for the wealthy upper-crust who can afford guided hunts on
exclusive private reserves. The AHSA is not your friend, never will be.

In closing, Id like to remind you that Im a guy who has actually gone
nose to nose with Obama on gun rights issues. The Obama I know cannot
even begin to identify with this nations outdoor traditions. The Obama
I know sees you, the law abiding gun owner, as nothing but a low-class
lummox who is easily swayed by the flash of a smile and a ration of
rosy rhetoric. The Obama I know is a stony-faced liar who has honed
his skill at getting what he wants - so long as people are willing to
give it to him.

Thats the Barack Obama I know.

The ISRA is the state's leading advocate of safe, lawful and
responsible firearms ownership. Founded in 1903, the ISRA has
represented the interests of millions of law-abiding Illinois firearm
owners.

WEB SITE: http://www.isra.org
SOURCE Illinois State Rifle Association

**************************************************
19. FBI: Justifiable homicides at highest in more than a decade
**************************************************

http://tinyurl.com/3pqasp

By Kevin Johnson, USA TODAY
Oct 14, 2008

The number of justifiable homicides committed by police and private
citizens has been rising in the past two years to their highest levels
in more than a decade, reflecting a shoot-first philosophy in dealing
with crime, say law enforcement analysts.

The 391 killings by police that were ruled justifiable in 2007 were
the most since 1994, FBI statistics show. The 254 killings by private
individuals found to be self-defense were the most since 1997.

The FBI says a homicide committed by a private citizen is justified
when a person is slain during the commission of a felony, such as a
burglary or robbery. Police are justified, the FBI says, when felons
are killed while the officer is acting in the line of duty. Rulings on
these deaths are usually made by the local police agencies involved.

Some law enforcement analysts say the numbers represent changing
attitudes on the streets, where police have felt more threatened by
well-armed offenders, and citizens have taken greater responsibility
for their own safety.

Northeastern University criminal justice professor James Alan Fox
describes an emerging "shoot-first" mentality by police and private
citizens. For several years, police departments have armed their
officers with higher-powered weapons to keep pace with criminal gangs.
"Clearly there is a message out there that citizens may be able to
defend themselves" as well, he says.

Alfred Blumstein, a Carnegie Mellon University criminologist, says the
gun "legalization movement" also may have helped create a "greater
willingness" among citizens to act in self-defense.

Forty-eight states provide various rights to carry firearms. Illinois
and Wisconsin do not, according to the National Rifle Association. In
a landmark decision, the Supreme Court in June carved out a right to
individual gun ownership, ruling that the Second Amendment allows
citizens to keep guns in their homes for self-defense.

The NRA and other analysts say most laws allowing gun possession have
existed for years and would not likely account for a recent spike in
self-defense killings.

Instead, Wayne LaPierre, the NRA's executive vice president and chief
executive officer, says the Sept. 11 attacks and the widespread
looting and violence after Hurricane Katrina spurred some people to
take more responsibility for their own safety.

Immediately after those events, LaPierre says the group's gun-safety
trainers reported "big increases" in NRA-sponsored courses. "Americans
are simply refusing to be victims," he says.

Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck says the FBI
underestimates self-defense killings by citizens because the ones that
are not precipitated by felony crimes may not get counted. "Less than
a third of (citizen killings) are reported," he says.

**************************************************
20. Madonna's Controversial Gun Shoes
**************************************************

http://tinyurl.com/5ne6cp

Female First (UK) 14-10-2008

Madonna ensured all eyes were on her feet when she stepped out in
these amazing Chanel gun heel shoes in last night.

The singer was attending the screening of her new film, Filth And
Wisdom, in which she makes her directional debut, in New York.

She wore a simple black dress to avoid taking attention away from her
heels.

However the shoes have caused some controversy with murder victims'
group, Mothers Against Murder And Aggression (MAMAA), branding Madonna
uncaring.

Lyn Costello, from MAMAA told Metro: "I am horrified that Madonna can
see these shoes as fashion.

"As a mother herself I would have thought that she would have paused
for a second and thought about all the young people here and in her
own country that have died because of gun crime.

"It's uncaring. Surely she reads the news and realises that young
people are dying every day." [PVC: Yes, and I'll bet that Lynn and
other MAMAA members continues to drive their cars, too. Cars are
responsible for more deaths of teenagers than guns! How horrifying,
how uncaring of MAMAA!]

Chanel's Karl Lagerfeld was apparently inspired by an image of a gun
which he gave to Chanel's shoe designer Laurence Decade, and told him
to make a shoe.

The 'Miami Vice' shoe was first seen on the catwalk, and those designs
were made of actual gun casings, painted silver, black, and gold. But
the designs being made for Chanel boutiques are made of Plexiglas.

**************************************************
21. Gun shows and events!
**************************************************

The Virginia Citizens Defense League thanks the following member-
activists who generously gave of their time to advance and help defend
the rights of their fellow gun owners by working our recruiting and
information booth at the ODGS gun show in Dale City, October 4-5:

Peter Evans, Helen Evans, Keith Dingwall, Tori Dingwall, Vin
Miragliotta, Jerry Coffey, David Park, and Daniel Paulson

As an all volunteer organization, VCDL depends on YOU to volunteer
your time at our area events, where we recruit new activists and keep
gun owners informed. No experience necessary; if it's your first time
we'll pair you with a veteran volunteer. To find out more about
helping at our gun show tables, go to:

http://www2.vcdl.org/cgi-bin/wspd_cgi.sh/vcdl/gs.html

and click on any of the blue links, or contact the coordinator for the
show/event listed below with which you are interested in helping.

Here are the upcoming events with which we need YOUR help:


a. FREDERICKSBURG http://www.guns-knives.com, October 25-26

Saturday, October 25 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
Sunday, October 26 10:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

Contact Robert Herron at Fredericksburggunshows@vcdl.org to help in
Fredericksburg.


b. ROANOKE http://www.showmasters.us, October 25-26

Saturday, October 25 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
Sunday, October 26 9:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m. 12:30 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

Please contact Al Steed, Jr. at SWVAgunshows@vcdl.org to help in
Roanoke.


c. DALE CITY http://www.olddominionshows.com, November 1-2

Saturday, November 1 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
Sunday, November 2 9:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m. 12:30 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

Please contact Danny Paulson at NOVAgunshows@vcdl.org to help in Dale
City.


d. NORFOLK http://www.showmasters.us, November 1-2

Saturday, November 1 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
Sunday, November 2 10:00 a.m. - 1:30 p.m. 1:30 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.

Please contact Ed Burton at Norfolkgunshows@vcdl.org to help at the
Norfolk Scope.


e. RICHMOND http://www.showmasters.us, November 15-16

Saturday, November 15 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
Sunday, November 16 9:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m. 12:30 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

Contact Audrey Muehleisen at CentralVAgunshows@vcdl.org to help at the
Richmond Raceway Complex.


f. CHANTILLY http://www.cegunshows.com, November 21-23

Friday, November 21 3:00 p.m. - 8:00 p.m. Saturday, November 22 9:00
a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m. Sunday, November 23 10:00 a.m.
- 1:30 p.m. 1:30 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.

Please contact Danny Paulson at NOVAgunshows@vcdl.org to help in
Chantilly.


g. HAMPTON http://www.guns-knives.com, November 29-30

Saturday, November 29 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
Sunday, November 30 10:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

Please contact Ron Lilly at HamptonRoadsgunshows@vcdl.org to help in
Hampton.


h. DALE CITY http://www.olddominionshows.com, December 6-7

Saturday, December 6 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
Sunday, December 7 9:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m. 12:30 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

Please contact Danny Paulson at NOVAgunshows@vcdl.org to help in Dale
City.


i. RICHMOND http://www.cegunshows.com, December 6-7

Saturday, December 6 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
Sunday, December 7 10:00 a.m. - 1:30 p.m. 1:30 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.

Contact Audrey Muehleisen at CentralVAgunshows@vcdl.org to help at the
Showplace in Mechanicsville.


j. HARRISONBURG http://www.showmasters.us, December 13-14

Saturday, December 13 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
Sunday, December 14 10:00 a.m. - 1:30 p.m. 1:30 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.

Please contact Bob Schmidt at Shenandoahgunshows@vcdl.org to help in
Harrisonburg.


k. FREDERICKSBURG http://www.guns-knives.com, December 13-14

Saturday, December 13 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
Sunday, December 14 10:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

Contact Robert Herron at Fredericksburggunshows@vcdl.org to help in
Fredericksburg.


l. SALEM http://www.cegunshows.com, December 20-21

Saturday, December 20 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
Sunday, December 21 10:00 a.m. - 1:30 p.m. 1:30 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.

Please contact Al Steed, Jr. at SWVAgunshows@vcdl.org to help in Salem.


m. FISHERSVILLE http://www.showmasters.us, December 27-28

Saturday, December 27 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
Sunday, December 28 10:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

Please contact Bob Schmidt at Shenandoahgunshows@vcdl.org to help in
Fishersville.


n. VIRGINIA BEACH http://www.guns-knives.com, December 27-28

Saturday, December 27 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
Sunday, December 28 10:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

Please contact Ron and Jean Hyson at VBgunshows@vcdl.org to help in
Virginia Beach.


o. ROANOKE http://www.showmasters.us, January 3-4, 2009 Saturday,
January 3 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m. Sunday, January
4 9:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m. 12:30 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

Please contact Al Steed, Jr. at SWVAgunshows@vcdl.org to help in
Roanoke.


p. HAMPTON http://www.guns-knives.com, January 24-25, 2009

Saturday, January 24 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
Sunday, January 25 10:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

Please contact Ron Lilly at HamptonRoadsgunshows@vcdl.org to help in
Hampton.


q. RICHMOND http://www.showmasters.us, February 7-8

Saturday, February 7 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
Sunday, February 8 9:00 a.m. - 12:30 p.m. 12:30 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

Contact Audrey Muehleisen at CentralVAgunshows@vcdl.org to help at the
Richmond Raceway Complex.


r. CHANTILLY http://www.cegunshows.com, February 13-15

Friday, February 13 3:00 p.m. - 8:00 p.m. Saturday, February 14 9:00
a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m. Sunday, February 15 10:00 a.m.
- 1:30 p.m. 1:30 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.

Please contact Danny Paulson at NOVAgunshows@vcdl.org to help in
Chantilly.


s. VIRGINIA BEACH http://www.guns-knives.com, February 28-March 1

Saturday, February 28 9:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
Sunday, March 1 10:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. 1:00 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.

Please contact Ron and Jean Hyson at VBgunshows@vcdl.org to help in
Virginia Beach.

-------------------------------------------
***************************************************************************
VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
(VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization
dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to
Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.

VCDL web page: http://www.vcdl.org
***************************************************************************

imported post

W.E.G. wrote:

DELETED TO SAVE SPACE

Click to expand...

Whats wrong with a hyperlink?

http://www2.vcdl.org/cgi-bin/wspd_cgi.sh/vcdl/vadetail.html?RECID=3319490&FILTER=

imported post

link works for me