Underage Purchase?

bayboy42 · Oct 22, 2008

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Grapeshot wrote:

peter nap wrote:

§ 18.2-108. Receiving, etc., stolen goods.
A. If any person buys or receives from another person, or aids in concealing, any stolen goods or other thing, knowing the same to have been stolen, he shall be deemed guilty of larceny thereof, and may be proceeded against, although the principal offender is not convicted.
B. If any person buys or receives any goods or other thing, used in the course of a criminal investigation by law enforcement that such person believes to have been stolen, he shall be deemed guilty of larceny thereof.
(Code 1950, § 18.1-107; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 2008, c. 578.)

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Don't recommend that anyone buy a new customized Wilson Combat 1911, new in the box for $100.00 - it might be stolen - and your defense might be a tinsy weak.

Buy a $550.00 value pistol for $400.00 & exchange and retain ID information - you have probably eliminated any potential problems. In the -.0001% that the firearm is not clean, I think the worst that you will suffer is the loss of the money.

Yata hey

I was with you 100% until you threw in the "exchange and retain ID information part". Do you routinely exchange such information when you purchase items from a flea market?

peter nap · Oct 22, 2008

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Grapeshot wrote:

peter nap wrote:

§ 18.2-108. Receiving, etc., stolen goods.
A. If any person buys or receives from another person, or aids in concealing, any stolen goods or other thing, knowing the same to have been stolen, he shall be deemed guilty of larceny thereof, and may be proceeded against, although the principal offender is not convicted.
B. If any person buys or receives any goods or other thing, used in the course of a criminal investigation by law enforcement that such person believes to have been stolen, he shall be deemed guilty of larceny thereof.
(Code 1950, § 18.1-107; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 2008, c. 578.)

Click to expand...

Don't recommend that anyone buy a new customized Wilson Combat 1911, new in the box for $100.00 - it might be stolen - and your defense might be a tinsy weak.

Buy a $550.00 value pistol for $400.00 & exchange and retain ID information - you have probably eliminated any potential problems. In the -.0001% that the firearm is not clean, I think the worst that you will suffer is the loss of the money.

Yata hey

Agreed Grapeshot but I don't keep ID.
I do have a friendly LEO check for stolen though and I'm 100% covered then.

Deals do come along though. In the last 5 yearsm I have bought two Fox model B Doubles for fifty each. The American Derringer Corp 45lc/410 I have came from a fellow making the John Adams mini series, unfired, in the box for 75.00.

I bought what was told me an estate collection for 100.00 that included an M1 Carbine, Lee enfield and savage bolt action 22.

I had all those numbers run before I even got home.

FogRider · Oct 22, 2008

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peter nap wrote:

Agreed Grapeshot but I don't keep ID.
I do have a friendly LEO check for stolen though and I'm 100% covered then.

Deals do come along though. In the last 5 yearsm I have bought two Fox model B Doubles for fifty each. The American Derringer Corp 45lc/410 I have came from a fellow making the John Adams mini series, unfired, in the box for 75.00.

I bought what was told me an estate collection for 100.00 that included an M1 Carbine, Lee enfield and savage bolt action 22.

I had all those numbers run before I even got home.

Just out of curiosity, can you do that because you have a buddy on the force, or can anyone call up their local PD and request them to run a SN? I've never needed to, but it might come in handy some day?

peter nap · Oct 22, 2008

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FogRider wrote:

peter nap wrote:

Agreed Grapeshot but I don't keep ID.
I do have a friendly LEO check for stolen though and I'm 100% covered then.

Deals do come along though. In the last 5 yearsm I have bought two Fox model B Doubles for fifty each. The American Derringer Corp 45lc/410 I have came from a fellow making the John Adams mini series, unfired, in the box for 75.00.

I bought what was told me an estate collection for 100.00 that included an M1 Carbine, Lee enfield and savage bolt action 22.

I had all those numbers run before I even got home.

Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, can you do that because you have a buddy on the force, or can anyone call up their local PD and request them to run a SN? I've never needed to, but it might come in handy some day?

I expect anyone can do it Fogrider....but I am funny about who knows what I buy. I have one of several very close friends check on them. These are people that I've hunted with and my wife and I socialize with often.

In all the years I've been buying guns this way, I have only had one come back as stolen. I turned the gun over to him to return to the owner and I found the fellow who sold it to me. He was nice enough to give me a refund without a receipt

Grapeshot · Oct 22, 2008

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bayboy42 wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

Don't recommend that anyone buy a new customized Wilson Combat 1911, new in the box for $100.00 - it might be stolen - and your defense might be a tinsy weak.

Buy a $550.00 value pistol for $400.00 & exchange and retain ID information - you have probably eliminated any potential problems. In the -.0001% that the firearm is not clean, I think the worst that you will suffer is the loss of the money.

Click to expand...

I was with you 100% until you threw in the "exchange and retain ID information part". Do you routinely exchange such information when you purchase items from a flea market?

If I were buying a firearm from a flea market vendor, yes. Not where I shop though.

All of my firearms are inventoried for a number of reasons.

If I transfer one to you, I will record that transaction in my records with all pertinent data. If I am acquiring one from you, the information of the previous owner (you) will be made available to me. If this is not acceptable, then no problem but no sale.

If I personally know you well - no ID formality required but know that my records will reflect the transfer. Its a CYA thing and a personal standard.

Yata hey

FogRider · Oct 22, 2008

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peter nap wrote:

I expect anyone can do it Fogrider....but I am funny about who knows what I buy. I have one of several very close friends check on them. These are people that I've hunted with and my wife and I socialize with often.

In all the years I've been buying guns this way, I have only had one come back as stolen. I turned the gun over to him to return to the owner and I found the fellow who sold it to me. He was nice enough to give me a refund without a receipt

Ok, so the buddy is just to keep a little privacy. That makes sense.

Grapeshot · Oct 22, 2008

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peter nap Your comments are intersting, I'm going to give them some more thought.

What is obvious though is that you did know where to find the seller of the firearm that was not clean - which is one of my concerns.

Yata hey

peter nap · Oct 22, 2008

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Grapeshot wrote:

peter nap Your comments are intersting, I'm going to give them some more thought.

What is obvious though is that you did know where to find the seller of the firearm that was not clean - which is one of my concerns.

Yata hey

:lol:I never claimed to be fair Grapeshot. While I flat refuse to buy from someone that requires ID, I do make mental and later written notes of License numbers and names or addresses, until I'm sure the guns are legal. Then I lose those notes.

I'm sure some of the sellers do the same with me and that's fine.

Grapeshot · Oct 22, 2008

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peter nap wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

peter nap Your comments are intersting, I'm going to give them some more thought.

What is obvious though is that you did know where to find the seller of the firearm that was not clean - which is one of my concerns

Click to expand...

:lol:I never claimed to be fair Grapeshot. While I flat refuse to buy from someone that requires ID, I do make mental and later written notes of License numbers and names or addresses, until I'm sure the guns are legal. Then I lose those notes.

I'm sure some of the sellers do the same with me and that's fine.

I know the definition of being fair - it's called winning.

If you make the rules, thats even better......and fair.

Yata hey

darthmord · Oct 23, 2008

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bayboy42 wrote:

peter nap wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

2a4all wrote:

Click to expand...

Cite?

§ 18.2-108. Receiving, etc., stolen goods.
A. If any person buys or receives from another person, or aids in concealing, any stolen goods or other thing, knowing the same to have been stolen, he shall be deemed guilty of larceny thereof, and may be proceeded against, although the principal offender is not convicted.
B. If any person buys or receives any goods or other thing, used in the course of a criminal investigation by law enforcement that such person believes to have been stolen, he shall be deemed guilty of larceny thereof.
(Code 1950, § 18.1-107; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 2008, c. 578.)

Click to expand...

So the state would have to prove that the purchaser was aware that the goods were stolen....the purchaser wouldn't have to prove that he didn't know....right?

It's a tad difficult to prove a negative.

2a4all · Oct 23, 2008

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Grapeshot wrote:

2a4all wrote:

I might be missing something obvious here, but how do you know that the firearm being offered for sale by a private individual at a gun show isn't stolen?

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Yes you are missing something here.

How do you know anything you buy from a private individual at a flea market is not stolen?

Should all personal property be sold only through licensed/registered dealers: knives, baseball bats, bow and arrows, rope, vehicles etc., etc.?

What I am missing here is that you use the VCDL logo as your avatar but seem devoid of any understanding of that organizations philosophy/position on private sales. Why is that?

Yata hey

And the logo will be on my license plate, too.

I'm only posing the question here because no one else brought it up.

People (individuals) can sell anything at a flea market (aka gun show). In the case of firearms, which have a degree of regulation, the buyer should exhibit a modicum of caution (which you seem to exhibit in abundance in your private transactions) to protect him/herself from possible unwitting involvement in criminal activity.

Buying a firearm from a registered dealer can offer the buyer a layer of protection against unwittingly buying a stolen (or otherwise tainted) firearm. But it's an individual decision.

"Caveat emptor" is just good sense. From what I've read, VCDL seems to promote that sort of thing.

BTW, if you do inquire about a firearm's status (reported stolen), and the result is "no", it could also be taken to mean "not yet". Since firearms aren't registered in VA, there's really no good way to actually determine that status.

TexasNative · Oct 23, 2008

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2a4all wrote:

Since firearms aren't registered in VA, thank goodness, there's really no good way to actually determine that status.

There, fixed it for ya.

~ Boyd

nova · Oct 23, 2008

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I've bought 4 firearms through private sales over the past two years. Sold one of them though to fund the 4th one. Simply put, there is no way to know for sure it's not stolen, but there are certain things you do to help make sure you don't deal with a bad guy. First, I profile people when buying guns. If they're dressed like a thug, I'd walk away. If they look like someone you wouldn't like to live next to, I'd walk away. Luckly, the 4 people I've dealt with (including the 5th guy who I sold one to) appeared to be 'one of us' good gun owners, cleanly dressed, etc. Ages ranged from a grad student to a retiree. Some showed their VA CHP's which made me feel even better.

Basically, when buying or selling guns through private sales, use your head. If you feel like the buyer/seller is up to no good, walk away. That alone will greatly reduce the chance of buying a hot gun.

Glock27Bill · Oct 23, 2008

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Runing numbers though your local police raises an interesting point.

Are the details of that interaction kept on file?

I know that a transfer through an FFL only resides on his paperwork, but have you inadvertantly 'registered' a gun by asking the police to check out its status for you?

2a4all · Oct 23, 2008

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Glock27Bill wrote:

Runing numbers though your local police raises an interesting point.

Are the details of that interaction kept on file?

I know that a transfer through an FFL only resides on his paperwork, but have you inadvertantly 'registered' a gun by asking the police to check out its status for you?

And how extensive is that check/"registration"? Local? Statewide? Federal (BATFE)?

peter nap · Oct 23, 2008

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2a4all wrote:

Glock27Bill wrote:

Runing numbers though your local police raises an interesting point.

Are the details of that interaction kept on file?

I know that a transfer through an FFL only resides on his paperwork, but have you inadvertantly 'registered' a gun by asking the police to check out its status for you?

Click to expand...

And how extensive is that check/"registration"? Local? Statewide? Federal (BATFE)?

They are run through the state system and unless the officer keeps a contact sheet, no record other than it being checked, is kept.

And no, it is not all inclusive but it virtually eliminates the chance of ever being charged with receiving stolen goods.

Your backsides are covered!

ProShooter · Oct 23, 2008

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Glock27Bill wrote:

Runing numbers though your local police raises an interesting point.

Are the details of that interaction kept on file?

Depends on the agency...when we used to run something, the computer person running the subject, item, whatever had a log that they kept and documented the reason - everything must be run for criminal justice purposes only.

nova · Oct 23, 2008

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I wish I had a personal LEO that would come with me whevever I buy a gun in a private sale. Otherwise, how are you going to check the gun out unless you purchase it beforehand? Besides that, I was under the impression that you can't just walk up to a LEO and ask them to check your gun's S/N.

Now...where'sLEO229 at

?

peter nap · Oct 23, 2008

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nova wrote:

I wish I had a personal LEO that would come with me whevever I buy a gun in a private sale. Otherwise, how are you going to check the gun out unless you purchase it beforehand? Besides that, I was under the impression that you can't just walk up to a LEO and ask them to check your gun's S/N.

Now...where'sLEO229 at ?

Like Proshooter said, depends on the Department and the officer.

ProShooter · Oct 23, 2008

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nova wrote:

I wish I had a personal LEO that would come with me whevever I buy a gun in a private sale. Otherwise, how are you going to check the gun out unless you purchase it beforehand? Besides that, I was under the impression that you can't just walk up to a LEO and ask them to check your gun's S/N.

Now...where'sLEO229 at ?

If that was the case, there'd be an officer assigned to the Sunday classifieds for every barbecue grill, lawn mower and old tv sold.

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