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Thread: Hooters in Roanoke

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    Et tu Hooters?

    I was at the bar, drinking a Coke, waiting for a group of clients and colleagues from about 1730 to 1745 on 22 Oct. The manager , Ms. Corring, approached and asked if I was a LEO. I said, 'no,' and she proceeded to ask me to leave my weapon in my vehicle. I asked why and she stated that it was an ABC regulation, and that she had been trained by her general manager not to allow weapons. I asked if this was a corporate policy, she indicated that it was not. She seemed to think it was the law. She was very polite but there was nothing I could do to change her mind (sorry, OCDO handout didn't cut it). I asked for her card and then left, just as my party arrived. I made lame excuses and went home.

    I tried to keep a smile on and keep my voice level, body language in the 'not a nut' range, but my hands shook. I did manage to keep if from being a me-vs-her situation by talking about policy and law. Sigh.

    I sent a note off to VCDL and will call the gen. mgr. tomorrow.


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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    CPerdue wrote:
    (sorry, OCDO handout didn't cut it
    PM me your address and I will send you some OC Cards too with the laws on them.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    CPerdue wrote:
    Et tu Hooters?

    I was at the bar, drinking a Coke,
    Danger Will Robinson. Danger Will Robinson . . .

    Though legal, the bar area, and especially "the bar" is not a place to be while open carying. Besides attracting attention to yourself, and exposing your gun to people with your back turned, it is a major publicity problem - the public and staff see only a man at the bar with a gun - the part about you drinking alcohol will be added later as the story is told and retold around town. And how does anyone tell if a Coke has rum in it or not?

    "Bars" have really bad connotations - it's where trouble starts, where liquor flows like water. It's not logical, it's just the way it is - perception becomes reality.

    Ifyou have to wait for a table or for others to arrive, try to stay away from the bar area and certainly don't sit "at the bar!"

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    Mike wrote:
    CPerdue wrote:
    Et tu Hooters?

    I was at the bar, drinking a Coke,
    Danger Will Robinson. Danger Will Robinson . . .

    Though legal, the bar area, and especially "the bar" is not a place to be while open carying. Besides attracting attention to yourself, and exposing your gun to people with your back turned, it is a major publicity problem - the public and staff see only a man at the bar with a gun - the part about you drinking alcohol will be added later as the story is told and retold around town. And how does anyone tell if a Coke has rum in it or not?

    "Bars" have really bad connotations - it's where trouble starts, where liquor flows like water. It's not logical, it's just the way it is - perception becomes reality.

    Ifyou have to wait for a table or for others to arrive, try to stay away from the bar area and certainly don't sit "at the bar!"
    Even at Champps?

    I sat at the bar at Champps in Richmond a few weeks ago because it was lunchtime and the games were on. You can order drinks anywhere in a restaurant and it can always be added on that your coke had rum in it. During lunchtime it seems over cautious to me. I mean it seems like if you want to save the image then you might should just avoid restaurants that serve alcohol period.

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    Mike wrote:
    CPerdue wrote:
    Et tu Hooters?

    I was at the bar, drinking a Coke,
    Danger Will Robinson. Danger Will Robinson . . .

    Though legal, the bar area, and especially "the bar" is not a place to be while open carying. Besides attracting attention to yourself, and exposing your gun to people with your back turned, it is a major publicity problem - the public and staff see only a man at the bar with a gun - the part about you drinking alcohol will be added later as the story is told and retold around town. And how does anyone tell if a Coke has rum in it or not?

    "Bars" have really bad connotations - it's where trouble starts, where liquor flows like water. It's not logical, it's just the way it is - perception becomes reality.

    Ifyou have to wait for a table or for others to arrive, try to stay away from the bar area and certainly don't sit "at the bar!"
    Mike - did somebody steal your login information this evening? This argument for not sitting at the bar is chock full of fallacies and is dangerously close to the "it's legal but not a good idea" train of thought that is chastised across the OCDO threads. When people read about Melanie Hain having her permit revoked for doing something legal but not a a good idea in the eyes of the local Sheriff, OCDO quickly defended Ms. Hain (as they should). So to see a post from the moderator warning people not to sit at the bar while opencarrying is a litte odd.

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    I tend to agree bayboy. We could say the exact same thing about carrying in public offices, libraries and whatnot. I would however say that if you're going to be at the bar it's best to look as straight-laced and well mannered so that the best image possible is given off.

    CPerdue let us know what you find out. Seems like this is the second or third place you've had issue with in Roanoke, while I've had one down there.

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    jmelvin wrote:
    I tend to agree bayboy. We could say the exact same thing about carrying in public offices, libraries and whatnot. I would however say that if you're going to be at the bar it's best to look as straight-laced and well mannered so that the best image possible is given off.

    CPerdue let us know what you find out. Seems like this is the second or third place you've had issue with in Roanoke, while I've had one down there.
    Damn...I think I just walked through the looking glass. I agree with Mike that a table would have been a much better choice... which is unusual because I usually think Mike leans the other way to much:shock:

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    Mike wrote:
    CPerdue wrote:
    Et tu Hooters?

    I was* at the bar, drinking a Coke,
    Danger Will Robinson.* Danger Will Robinson . . .

    Though legal, the bar area, and especially "the bar" is not a place to be while open carying.* Besides attracting attention to yourself, and exposing your gun to people with your back turned, it is a major publicity problem - the public and staff see only a man at the bar with a gun - the part about you drinking alcohol will be added later as the story is told and retold around town.* And how does anyone tell if a Coke has rum in it or not?

    "Bars" have really bad connotations - it's where trouble starts, where liquor flows like water.* It's not logical, it's just the way it is - perception becomes reality.

    If*you have to wait for a table or for others to arrive, try to stay away from the bar area and certainly don't sit "at the bar!"
    Mike I can see where you are coming from, in part, like having your back towards an open room. But unless you have done some LE in your life, you won't know about some of the little things like keeping your back away from any door. Heck even today, when ever I go into a place with more than 3 people in it I ALWAYS sit in a place where I can see the room and my back is to a wall or better yet a corner, but never to an open door, or open room.

    But you cannot expect everyone to know this and fact be told, the general public doesn't know, heck why should they, right?

    But the law says we Cannot CC in these places, we MUST OC. So to go into this place and leave your handgun in the glove box is no different than entering Krogers and doing the same thing, except here even CC's are a no go. As a CHP'er I am not going to leave my handgun in the car, I will vacate before that happens. Just my 2 cents............

    Gunny :celebrate

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    You might try showing the manager the following two letters:

    http://www.vcdl.org/letters/VASP_OPEN.pdf
    http://www.vcdl.org/letters/ABC_Letter.pdf

    I'm sure the second letter would really interest them since it is from the Dept of Alcoholic Beverage Control.


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    Gunny5821 wrote:
    But the law says we Cannot CC in these places, we MUST OC.
    In a 2,000+ sq. ft. restaurant somebody has to sit at a 200 sq. ft. bar?

    And why do we not have concealed carry in restaurants in Virginia? Because of the "bar" image- sitting at the bar is exactly the sort of image that helps us keep losing repeal of the restaurant concealed cary ban. We are in an information war folks.

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    Not that it matters, but for some reason I first read the topic as "Hookers in Roanoke: Got kicked out by a mis-trained manager.", and was thoroughly confused as to how anyone would think this was an appropriate post.

    That is all, please do carry on.

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    CPerdue wrote:
    Et tu Hooters?

    I was at the bar, drinking a Coke, waiting for a group of clients and colleagues from about 1730 to 1745 on 22 Oct. The manager , Ms. Corring, approached and asked if I was a LEO. I said, 'no,' and she proceeded to ask me to leave my weapon in my vehicle. I asked why and she stated that it was an ABC regulation, and that she had been trained by her general manager not to allow weapons.
    Why were you at the bar as opposed to at a table or near the entrance?

    What are the benefits of being at the bar open carrying? I really can't think of any.

    Negatives? Well,
    1. Tactically, you're exposing your gun and/or your back to potential troublemakers.
    2. If you're involved in an incident, you potentially increase your risk that someone (press, police, attorney, etc) may allege that your judgment was affected by your drink (not that it was, just that someone might argue it was and that was a contributing factor to your irresponsible actions...do you really want to spend the money to defend yourself against those bogus allegations?)
    3. Perceptions. At the bar. Drinking (doesn't matter if it's water or vodka). Carrying a gun. Yep, the Brady Campaign could really use that in their continuing efforts to derail repealing the restaurant ban on concealed carry.
    4. Reinforces the stereotype that all we want is to carry our guns and drink...that carrying a gun is not about safety & personal protection, that all we want is to belly up to the bar with our guns and drink.
    So, tell us again just how you and all gun owners benefited by your adventure at the bar drinking while open carrying?



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    I made lame excuses and went home.
    Lame excuses? Why? You're the one who got kicked out for no good reason.

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    smurf454 wrote:
    CPerdue wrote:
    Et tu Hooters?

    I was at the bar, drinking a Coke, waiting for a group of clients and colleagues from about 1730 to 1745 on 22 Oct. The manager , Ms. Corring, approached and asked if I was a LEO. I said, 'no,' and she proceeded to ask me to leave my weapon in my vehicle. I asked why and she stated that it was an ABC regulation, and that she had been trained by her general manager not to allow weapons.
    Why were you at the bar as opposed to at a table or near the entrance?

    What are the benefits of being at the bar open carrying? I really can't think of any.

    Negatives? Well,
    1. Tactically, you're exposing your gun and/or your back to potential troublemakers.
    2. If you're involved in an incident, you potentially increase your risk that someone (press, police, attorney, etc) may allege that your judgment was affected by your drink (not that it was, just that someone might argue it was and that was a contributing factor to your irresponsible actions...do you really want to spend the money to defend yourself against those bogus allegations?)
    3. Perceptions. At the bar. Drinking (doesn't matter if it's water or vodka). Carrying a gun. Yep, the Brady Campaign could really use that in their continuing efforts to derail repealing the restaurant ban on concealed carry.
    4. Reinforces the stereotype that all we want is to carry our guns and drink...that carrying a gun is not about safety & personal protection, that all we want is to belly up to the bar with our guns and drink.
    So, tell us again just how you and all gun owners benefited by your adventure at the bar drinking while open carrying?

    Say hunh? Are you sure you read the original post? Is your response serious or are you being facecious?

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    bayboy42 wrote:
    smurf454 wrote:
    CPerdue wrote:
    Et tu Hooters?

    I was at the bar, drinking a Coke, waiting for a group of clients and colleagues from about 1730 to 1745 on 22 Oct. The manager , Ms. Corring, approached and asked if I was a LEO. I said, 'no,' and she proceeded to ask me to leave my weapon in my vehicle. I asked why and she stated that it was an ABC regulation, and that she had been trained by her general manager not to allow weapons.
    Why were you at the bar as opposed to at a table or near the entrance?

    What are the benefits of being at the bar open carrying? I really can't think of any.

    Negatives? Well,
    1. If you're involved in an incident, you potentially increase your risk that someone (press, police, attorney, etc) may allege that your judgment was affected by your drink (not that it was, just that someone might argue it was and that was a contributing factor to your irresponsible actions...do you really want to spend the money to defend yourself against those bogus allegations?)
    2. Perceptions. At the bar. Drinking (doesn't matter if it's water or vodka). Carrying a gun. Yep, the Brady Campaign could really use that in their continuing efforts to derail repealing the restaurant ban on concealed carry.
    3. Reinforces the stereotype that all we want is to carry our guns and drink...that carrying a gun is not about safety & personal protection, that all we want is to belly up to the bar with our guns and drink.
    So, tell us again just how you and all gun owners benefited by your adventure at the bar drinking while open carrying?

    Say hunh? Are you sure you read the original post? Is your response serious or are you being facecious?
    What did I say that was inaccurate?

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    smurf454 wrote:
    bayboy42 wrote:
    smurf454 wrote:
    CPerdue wrote:
    Et tu Hooters?

    I was at the bar, drinking a Coke, waiting for a group of clients and colleagues from about 1730 to 1745 on 22 Oct. The manager , Ms. Corring, approached and asked if I was a LEO. I said, 'no,' and she proceeded to ask me to leave my weapon in my vehicle. I asked why and she stated that it was an ABC regulation, and that she had been trained by her general manager not to allow weapons.
    Why were you at the bar as opposed to at a table or near the entrance?

    What are the benefits of being at the bar open carrying? I really can't think of any.

    Negatives? Well,
    1. If you're involved in an incident, you potentially increase your risk that someone (press, police, attorney, etc) may allege that your judgment was affected by your drink (not that it was, just that someone might argue it was and that was a contributing factor to your irresponsible actions...do you really want to spend the money to defend yourself against those bogus allegations?)
      He was drinking a COKE....easily verified by the bartender and the receipt....a non-issue in this situation.
    2. Perceptions. At the bar. Drinking (doesn't matter if it's water or vodka). Carrying a gun. Yep, the Brady Campaign could really use that in their continuing efforts to derail repealing the restaurant ban on concealed carry.
      I thought folks around here focused on legal stance vice perception. Perceptually, a lot of people take issue with the act of open carrying a weapon. Typically, OCDO threads thumb their nose at such perceptions...inserting instead that its legal. Refer to my previous quote about the Melanie Hain situation.
    3. Reinforces the stereotype that all we want is to carry our guns and drink...that carrying a gun is not about safety & personal protection, that all we want is to belly up to the bar with our guns and drink.
      Again, the OP was drinking a COKE.
    So, tell us again just how you and all gun owners benefited by your adventure at the bar drinking while open carrying?
    Do I need to say it again or do you get it now?
    Say hunh? Are you sure you read the original post? Is your response serious or are you being facecious?
    What did I say that was inaccurate?

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    Mike wrote:
    Gunny5821 wrote:
    But the law says we Cannot CC in these places, we MUST OC.
    In a 2,000+ sq. ft. restaurant somebody has to sit at a 200 sq. ft. bar?

    And why do we not have concealed carry in restaurants in Virginia? Because of the "bar" image- sitting at the bar is exactly the sort of image that helps us keep losing repeal of the restaurant concealed cary ban. We are in an information war folks.
    Just so I'm clear...you're asserting that folks open carrying while sitting at the bar portion of a restaurant is a contributing factor as to why VA's restaurant concealed carry ban has yet to be repealed???

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    I **NEVER** said he was drinking alcohol. I just said he was drinking. My statement is 100% accurate.

    This was a fantastic example of perceptions. I said he was drinking and you assumed I meant alcohol.

    Same perception error could easily occur in the bar area -- he's drinking and someone could assume his drink was an alcoholic beverage.

    And, unfortunately, that would play into the mantra of "alcohol and guns don't mix".

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    bayboy42 wrote:
    So, tell us again just how you and all gun owners benefited by your adventure at the bar drinking while open carrying?
    Do I need to say it again or do you get it now?
    Say it again??? You never answered my question in the first place.

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    As I understand it, the whole point of open carry activism is to normalize open carry. In other words, to get folks used to seeing "normal people" armed in any given situation.

    Just as the PA soccer mom was defended for open carrying at her kids' soccer game, I also defend CPerdue's carrying in the bar area of a restaurant. It's supposed to be a normal thing. We're supposed to be making people get used to seeing us armed, and behaving like normal people.

    Sorry, I'm gonna hafta disagree with those who say CPerdue should have avoided the bar area while OC. I can understand that some will say he shouldn't do it, but those folks can't justifiably call themselves open carry activists, in my opinion.

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    I'm never comfortable sitting at a bar with my back to the crowd, but that's just me.

    Not everyone is so worried about it.



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    You CAN sit at the bar and use a little SA...ie...never with your back to the door,slide the holster a little more to the front, towards the center over the right or left pocket, out ofreach of the 'supposed gun grabber'. :what:

    Agree with babyboy, I've been to the bar many times, NEVER drinking alcohol.

    Just use common sense and NEVER TRUST ANYONE AROUND YOU.

    Obviously we're not gonna change your mind mike, but with a little common sense, the OCer can make a good impression at the bar vice bad.

    2 ways of looking at it... :?

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    It is a shame how a topic can get out of hand. This issue could be better served by proactively approaching staff and management of all Hooter's if you you happen to be a regular customer.

    Perhaps they have a new policy perhaps not. Call you local Hooter's and find out. Peer pressure works best.

    BTW, I would never sit with my back to anyone, even a room full of you guys & gals. Even then I would never let my guard down.

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    TexasNative wrote:
    As I understand it, the whole point of open carry activism is to normalize open carry. In other words, to get folks used to seeing "normal people" armed in any given situation.

    Just as the PA soccer mom was defended for open carrying at her kids' soccer game, I also defend CPerdue's carrying in the bar area of a restaurant. It's supposed to be a normal thing. We're supposed to be making people get used to seeing us armed, and behaving like normal people.

    Sorry, I'm gonna hafta disagree with those who say CPerdue should have avoided the bar area while OC. I can understand that some will say he shouldn't do it, but those folks can't justifiably call themselves open carry activists, in my opinion.
    I was going to reply but then you summed it up quite nicely.

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    kenny wrote:
    This issue could be better served by proactively approaching staff and management of all Hooter's if you you happen to be a regular customer.
    No, as a practical matter this will force creation of a non gun policy - don;t ask don;t tell, and be discreet even if you are open carrying should be the rule.

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