Hooters in Roanoke

Lets cut to the chase -

You can do what is good for the cause - in an effective manner with the least colateral damage or not. It is your right.

It is legal to sit at the bar, OCing and actually drink alcohol? Yes, It's legal.

Is it in the best interest of our cause. IMO - it is not.

Suggesting not giving our opposition fuel for their bonfire is good advice. Is it your right - yes.

Can exercising your right(s) in a particular manner be determental to our goals? Yes.

Come on guys - pick a better nit.

Yata hey

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I'm not advocating for folks to sit around a bar while OCing. My heartburn is with the rationale that folks are spouting against it. According to what I've read on this thread, maybe open carrying at a youth soccer game isn't such a good idea...doing so could definitely "give our opposition fuel for their bonfire". Maybe Danbus carrying at Waterside was a bad idea as that could definitely "give our opposition fuel for their bonfire".Both situations were legal but were they good for the cause?See once you apply this line of reasoning to one situation, what stops it from being applied to all OC situations?

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razor_baghdad wrote:

doing so RESPONSIBLY,...

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Who is the arbiter of "responsibly" but a willing tyrant?

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Doug Huffman wrote:

razor_baghdad wrote:

doing so RESPONSIBLY,...

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Who is the arbiter of "responsibly" but a willing tyrant?

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The first and best arbiter in a free society of responsibility is the citizen with the right. Does that mean we should not offer our fellow citizen counsel so he can not make the best and most wise decision possible?

If I felt that I had nothing to gain from or offer to my fellow man in the way of information or advice....I would not bother with this forum.

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DonTreadOnMe wrote:

Doug Huffman wrote:

razor_baghdad wrote:

doing so RESPONSIBLY,...

Click to expand...

Who is the arbiter of "responsibly" but a willing tyrant?

Click to expand...

The first and best arbiter in a free society of responsibility is the citizen with the right. Does that mean we should not offer our fellow citizen counsel so he can not make the best and most wise decision possible?

If I felt that I had nothing to gain from or offer to my fellow man in the way of information or advice....I would not bother with this forum.

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"...the citizen with the right." What 'right' is that? Advice is worth just what is paid for it. Information is sought, 'pulled', rather than pushed. Info pushed is advertisement or marketeering, at best, propaganda at worst.

Believe nothing you read or hear without verifying it yourself unless it fits your pre-existing worldview.

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Doug Huffman wrote:

DonTreadOnMe wrote:

Doug Huffman wrote:

razor_baghdad wrote:

doing so RESPONSIBLY,...

Click to expand...

Who is the arbiter of "responsibly" but a willing tyrant?

Click to expand...

The first and best arbiter in a free society of responsibility is the citizen with the right. Does that mean we should not offer our fellow citizen counsel so he can not make the best and most wise decision possible?

If I felt that I had nothing to gain from or offer to my fellow man in the way of information or advice....I would not bother with this forum.

Click to expand...

"...the citizen with the right." What 'right' is that? Advice is worth just what is paid for it. Information is sought, 'pulled', rather than pushed. Info pushed is advertisement or marketeering, at best, propaganda at worst.

Believe nothing you read or hear without verifying it yourself unless it fits your pre-existing worldview.

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ROFLMO, why bother even trying to exchange ideas with any of us if you think we are just at best...trying sell you a bill of goods?

If I felt I could gain nothing form the advice and experiences of those in this forum, I for one would not bother to read them.

I don't swallow advice of any man as gospel, but I also am not arrogant to think there is no value from advice of others. I take it for what it is, something to take under advisement as I decide what is a responsible course of direction for myself and the continuing evolution of my world view.

Sometimes, even those that I have the strongest disagreement with....who seek to change my view....who hold very differing beliefs than I do, offer a bit of information or an idea that I can not refute. When such an idea or bit of information challenges my world view or the wisdom of my course of actions in some manor....that is when I have gained from a conversation. I don't fear another world view, I relish it. It will reaffirm mine or offer it a chance for improvement.

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Grapeshot wrote: I'm not advocating for folks to sit around a bar while OCing. My heartburn is with the rationale that folks are spouting against it. According to what I've read on this thread, maybe open carrying at a youth soccer game isn't such a good idea...doing so could definitely "give our opposition fuel for their bonfire". Maybe Danbus carrying at Waterside was a bad idea as that could definitely "give our opposition fuel for their bonfire".Both situations were legal but were they good for the cause?See once you apply this line of reasoning to one situation, what stops it from being applied to all OC situations?

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bayboy42 wrote:

Grapeshot wrote: I'm not advocating for folks to sit around a bar while OCing. My heartburn is with the rationale that folks are spouting against it. According to what I've read on this thread, maybe open carrying at a youth soccer game isn't such a good idea...doing so could definitely "give our opposition fuel for their bonfire". Maybe Danbus carrying at Waterside was a bad idea as that could definitely "give our opposition fuel for their bonfire".Both situations were legal but were they good for the cause?See once you apply this line of reasoning to one situation, what stops it from being applied to all OC situations?

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Your heartburn is with whatever you choose for the day.
You just want to sit around and bitch and anyone that doesn't agree with you is "anti-gun or anti-OC people".

I don't know what others feel, but I take serious offense to being called things like that !

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peter nap wrote:

bayboy42 wrote:

Grapeshot wrote: I'm not advocating for folks to sit around a bar while OCing. My heartburn is with the rationale that folks are spouting against it. According to what I've read on this thread, maybe open carrying at a youth soccer game isn't such a good idea...doing so could definitely "give our opposition fuel for their bonfire". Maybe Danbus carrying at Waterside was a bad idea as that could definitely "give our opposition fuel for their bonfire".Both situations were legal but were they good for the cause?See once you apply this line of reasoning to one situation, what stops it from being applied to all OC situations?

Click to expand...

Your heartburn is with whatever you choose for the day.
You just want to sit around and bitch and anyone that doesn't agree with you is "anti-gun or anti-OC people".

I don't know what others feel, but I take serious offense to being called things like that !

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Please remind me where I called anyone on here anit-gun or anti-OC people.

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TexasNative wrote:

As I understand it, the whole point of open carry activism is to normalize open carry. In other words, to get folks used to seeing "normal people" armed in any given situation.

Just as the PA soccer mom was defended for open carrying at her kids' soccer game, I also defend CPerdue's carrying in the bar area of a restaurant. It's supposed to be a normal thing. We're supposed to be making people get used to seeing us armed, and behaving like normal people.

Sorry, I'm gonna hafta disagree with those who say CPerdue should have avoided the bar area while OC. I can understand that some will say he shouldn't do it, but those folks can't justifiably call themselves open carry activists, in my opinion.

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So far all I had to say was that I agreed that a table would have been a better place to sit, but I think I'll throw in my other penny.

A week or so ago, there was a thread concerning weapon retention. As usual, it was lively. Now we have many members here that do understand weapon retention and how to react in different environments, and general awareness and precaution.

Also as usual, we had people who had the latest, greatest holsters, have read the instructions and were therefore experts.

Hooters is a bar environment. An enjoyable bar environment granted, and perhaps better regulated than many, but people still go there to drink and have fun.

There is NO better way to start trouble than be the toughest looking fellow in a place where drunks are having fun. A little beer just makes you bigger...(also makes the women better looking:shock

IF YOU WEAR A HANDGUN OFTEN ENOUGH IN A BAR, YOU WILL NEED TO LEARN WEAPON RETENTION!

Now I think it was in the same thread that someone said I was pretty stupid for carrying a gun to stay safe but refusing to wear a seat belt. They were right! However not wearing a seat belt hurts no one but me.

The same can't be said about OC'ing on a barstool with his butt and the gun sticking out for every would be Rocky Balboa to see and grab. I UNDERSTAND THE oc'ER WAS NOT DRINKING, BUT OTHERS WERE!

I also think it was a judgment call and not deserving of some of the harsh criticism he has gotten.

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bayboy42 wrote:

peter nap wrote:

bayboy42 wrote:

Grapeshot wrote: I'm not advocating for folks to sit around a bar while OCing. My heartburn is with the rationale that folks are spouting against it. According to what I've read on this thread, maybe open carrying at a youth soccer game isn't such a good idea...doing so could definitely "give our opposition fuel for their bonfire". Maybe Danbus carrying at Waterside was a bad idea as that could definitely "give our opposition fuel for their bonfire".Both situations were legal but were they good for the cause?See once you apply this line of reasoning to one situation, what stops it from being applied to all OC situations?

Click to expand...

Your heartburn is with whatever you choose for the day.
You just want to sit around and bitch and anyone that doesn't agree with you is "anti-gun or anti-OC people".

I don't know what others feel, but I take serious offense to being called things like that !

Click to expand...

Please remind me where I called anyone on here anit-gun or anti-OC people.

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Here you go:

Posted: Thu Oct 23rd, 2008 08:38 am peter nap wrote:

TexasNative wrote:

As I understand it, the whole point of open carry activism is to normalize open carry. In other words, to get folks used to seeing "normal people" armed in any given situation.

Just as the PA soccer mom was defended for open carrying at her kids' soccer game, I also defend CPerdue's carrying in the bar area of a restaurant. It's supposed to be a normal thing. We're supposed to be making people get used to seeing us armed, and behaving like normal people.

Sorry, I'm gonna hafta disagree with those who say CPerdue should have avoided the bar area while OC. I can understand that some will say he shouldn't do it, but those folks can't justifiably call themselves open carry activists, in my opinion.

Click to expand...

So far all I had to say was that I agreed that a table would have been a better place to sit, but I think I'll throw in my other penny.

A week or so ago, there was a thread concerning weapon retention. As usual, it was lively. Now we have many members here that do understand weapon retention and how to react in different environments, and general awareness and precaution.

Also as usual, we had people who had the latest, greatest holsters, have read the instructions and were therefore experts.

Hooters is a bar environment. An enjoyable bar environment granted, and perhaps better regulated than many, but people still go there to drink and have fun.

There is NO better way to start trouble than be the toughest looking fellow in a place where drunks are having fun. A little beer just makes you bigger...(also makes the women better looking:shock

IF YOU WEAR A HANDGUN OFTEN ENOUGH IN A BAR, YOU WILL NEED TO LEARN WEAPON RETENTION!

Now I think it was in the same thread that someone said I was pretty stupid for carrying a gun to stay safe but refusing to wear a seat belt. They were right! However not wearing a seat belt hurts no one but me.

The same can't be said about OC'ing on a barstool with his butt and the gun sticking out for every would be Rocky Balboa to see and grab. I UNDERSTAND THE oc'ER WAS NOT DRINKING, BUT OTHERS WERE!

I also think it was a judgment call and not deserving of some of the harsh criticism he has gotten.

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How come when anti-gun or anti-OC people use type of reasoning, people on OCDO are quick to ask for cites/references/examples??? This thread has got to be full of the most double-speak I've ever seen in an OCDO thread.

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Hate to add this, but since it isn't against the law to lie to people, what is wrong with answering yes. Unless the manager is also an leo. You aren't impersonating,
she is misunderstanding. If it makes her feal better to think your an officer, what is
the harm in letting her be happy. Of course if she is wanted it could cause other problems.

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Advice is worth just what is paid for it. Information is sought, 'pulled', rather than pushed. Info pushed is advertisement or marketeering, at best, propaganda at worst.

Believe nothing you read or hear without verifying it yourself unless it fits your pre-existing worldview.

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But sitting down drinking a coke could hardly be construde as impersonating a
police officer, not like eating a jelly donut. (sorry can't help it)
But if you realy want to split hairs then....
answer 'why do you not allow officers to carry in here?' now you haven't affirmed
her assumption and haven't admitted to anything. You are just getting clarification on
company policy about firearms. After all, that would be the only logical reason
(they don't want cops with guns in the bar) for the question in the first place.

It just seems that sometimes it isn't worth the trouble to correct some people.

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TexasNative wrote:

As I understand it, the whole point of open carry activism is to normalize open carry. In other words, to get folks used to seeing "normal people" armed in any given situation.

Just as the PA soccer mom was defended for open carrying at her kids' soccer game, I also defend CPerdue's carrying in the bar area of a restaurant. It's supposed to be a normal thing. We're supposed to be making people get used to seeing us armed, and behaving like normal people.

Sorry, I'm gonna hafta disagree with those who say CPerdue should have avoided the bar area while OC. I can understand that some will say he shouldn't do it, but those folks can't justifiably call themselves open carry activists, in my opinion.

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I was going to reply but then you summed it up quite nicely.

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