judgedby12notcarriedby6
Regular Member
imported post
HardChrome wrote:
HardChrome wrote:
open carry has worked quite well in all states that allow it
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Oklahoma Police Groups Say Gun Carry Must be Limited to Privilege of Concealing
- Thread starter Mike
- Start date
ixtow
Founder's Club Member
imported post
Theseus wrote:
If there is an active BG shooter, certainly he's not shooting from inside his pants pocket?
If there is a responsible armed citizen, he's not returning fire from inside his jacket, is he?
the concealment argument always fails when it comes to a matter of use, because the weapon cannot be concealed and used (effectively) at the same time. It also offers no deterrent while invisible.
There is no valid argument in support of Open Carry "causing problems." It's just another vague reference with no foundation used to make small minds pop before they think it through rationally and logically. All evidence shows it's even more useful for preventing crime than CC is, and we still haven't seen the streets running like rivers of blood from "old west" shootouts.
A return to the 'old west' would be a welcome improvement over what we already have. ;-) I wonder why no one has pointed this out yet?
Theseus wrote:
If there was a shooting, none of the concealed weapons would be concealed anymore anyway, right?
If there is an active BG shooter, certainly he's not shooting from inside his pants pocket?
If there is a responsible armed citizen, he's not returning fire from inside his jacket, is he?
the concealment argument always fails when it comes to a matter of use, because the weapon cannot be concealed and used (effectively) at the same time. It also offers no deterrent while invisible.
There is no valid argument in support of Open Carry "causing problems." It's just another vague reference with no foundation used to make small minds pop before they think it through rationally and logically. All evidence shows it's even more useful for preventing crime than CC is, and we still haven't seen the streets running like rivers of blood from "old west" shootouts.
A return to the 'old west' would be a welcome improvement over what we already have. ;-) I wonder why no one has pointed this out yet?
riverrat10k
Regular Member
imported post
+1 "anti's don't trust themselves with guns." Now we are getting to the heart of the matter! They are so screwed up that gun=violence in their minds. In our minds gun=protection+fun!
+1 "anti's don't trust themselves with guns." Now we are getting to the heart of the matter! They are so screwed up that gun=violence in their minds. In our minds gun=protection+fun!
riverrat10k
Regular Member
imported post
Oh, and I believe oc is legel in some form in what, 42 states?
Oh, and I believe oc is legel in some form in what, 42 states?
2a4all
Regular Member
imported post
So if we didn't have OC, we wouldn't be returning to the Wild West.
The news that I see on TV and read in the paper seems to report a lot of shootings. But I don't see anyone OCing, so these perps must be packing concealed, right?
Are we not back in the Wild West now only because two individuals don't face off with each other in the street at high noon? I guess an Old West "driveby" wasn't so popular because it's a lot harder to shoot someone from the back of a running horse using a SA revolver than it is to shoot from the window of a speeding limo with a Tech9.
While these midday shootouts were supposedly happening daily (one near you), they were insignificant compared to the violence perpetrated in the sophisticated, civilized cities of the East (Boston, NY, Philly, DC, etc.). Since the "cowboy gunfights" got all the press (novels, etc), everyone seems to think that we were safer Back East then, and clearly, just as (un)safe now.
There was a whole fashion industry centered around the fine art of weapons concealment which allowed "gentlemen" to put brigands in their place with an air of sophistication. And a "gentleman" always did the proper thing, right? Only crude ruffians would openly carry a gun around. After all, what civilized person doesn't dress properly?
Maybe the antiOC folks are just looking for civility with their heads in the sand.
So if we didn't have OC, we wouldn't be returning to the Wild West.
The news that I see on TV and read in the paper seems to report a lot of shootings. But I don't see anyone OCing, so these perps must be packing concealed, right?
Are we not back in the Wild West now only because two individuals don't face off with each other in the street at high noon? I guess an Old West "driveby" wasn't so popular because it's a lot harder to shoot someone from the back of a running horse using a SA revolver than it is to shoot from the window of a speeding limo with a Tech9.
While these midday shootouts were supposedly happening daily (one near you), they were insignificant compared to the violence perpetrated in the sophisticated, civilized cities of the East (Boston, NY, Philly, DC, etc.). Since the "cowboy gunfights" got all the press (novels, etc), everyone seems to think that we were safer Back East then, and clearly, just as (un)safe now.
There was a whole fashion industry centered around the fine art of weapons concealment which allowed "gentlemen" to put brigands in their place with an air of sophistication. And a "gentleman" always did the proper thing, right? Only crude ruffians would openly carry a gun around. After all, what civilized person doesn't dress properly?
Maybe the antiOC folks are just looking for civility with their heads in the sand.
Alwayspacking
Campaign Veteran
imported post
These LE's are not speaking on what they know to be true, but they are speaking out of their own fears. I OC about 90% of the time, and all this negativity that LEO talk of has not happened as one might think. Yet my OC does not cause anyone to run or of fear when they see me.
Also how many people do the LEO expect to see OCing on one giving day? I have yet to see one people OC in my city or any other city for that matter. It's not like everyone in society will OC, only a few.And if the entiresociety did OC there would be less crime.
Think about it, a Criminal sees a walmart parking with 13 people with pistols on their hip, and he is alone or with one more guy, I do not think they willcommit anycrime there.
And with training being required, there are lots of states that do not require training for CC so what is the difference in requiring training for OC?
All this shows is that the LEO want to control our 2nd amendment, and it shows their own fears of OC.
These LE's are not speaking on what they know to be true, but they are speaking out of their own fears. I OC about 90% of the time, and all this negativity that LEO talk of has not happened as one might think. Yet my OC does not cause anyone to run or of fear when they see me.
Also how many people do the LEO expect to see OCing on one giving day? I have yet to see one people OC in my city or any other city for that matter. It's not like everyone in society will OC, only a few.And if the entiresociety did OC there would be less crime.
Think about it, a Criminal sees a walmart parking with 13 people with pistols on their hip, and he is alone or with one more guy, I do not think they willcommit anycrime there.
And with training being required, there are lots of states that do not require training for CC so what is the difference in requiring training for OC?
All this shows is that the LEO want to control our 2nd amendment, and it shows their own fears of OC.
frommycolddeadhands
Regular Member
imported post
deepdiver wrote:
+1000000. LOL, funniest thing I've heard all day!
deepdiver wrote:
+1000000. LOL, funniest thing I've heard all day!
ixtow
Founder's Club Member
imported post
frommycolddeadhands wrote:
Unfortunately, those knees are connected to our wallets and rights... When they jerk around, we lose both.
frommycolddeadhands wrote:
Unfortunately, those knees are connected to our wallets and rights... When they jerk around, we lose both.
okiephlyer
Regular Member
imported post
It is sad that more from Oklahoma aren't getting involved in this public debate. If the elected officials don't trust the very people that put them in office, then the people made a bad choice and need to correct the mistake at the next election, or start a recall petition.
Once again the naysayers resort to fear mongering and false assumpions to press their case. We need to look at other states that allow open carry (myexperience has been in VA) to see what the outcome will be. During the early days of our current election cycle I posed this issue with all the candidates. I got reactions anywhere from outright non reply to refusing to take a stand to full support for open carry and TRTBA. I think too many of the sheriffs and police chief positions are political stepping stones, so the people that run for and hold these offices lack the guts to stand up for what is right and just. We need a "NONE OF THE ABOVE" on ballots. my .02
It is sad that more from Oklahoma aren't getting involved in this public debate. If the elected officials don't trust the very people that put them in office, then the people made a bad choice and need to correct the mistake at the next election, or start a recall petition.
Once again the naysayers resort to fear mongering and false assumpions to press their case. We need to look at other states that allow open carry (myexperience has been in VA) to see what the outcome will be. During the early days of our current election cycle I posed this issue with all the candidates. I got reactions anywhere from outright non reply to refusing to take a stand to full support for open carry and TRTBA. I think too many of the sheriffs and police chief positions are political stepping stones, so the people that run for and hold these offices lack the guts to stand up for what is right and just. We need a "NONE OF THE ABOVE" on ballots. my .02
hightecrebel
Regular Member
imported post
oklaccer wrote:
oklaccer wrote:
I know a number of people in the OKC/Norman/Choctaw area who support the idea of OC. The only problem being, for them and myself, is that we're all military members with legal residence in other states. I must admit, I find it amusing that in the State of Maine I could OC a semi-auto pistol before I was 18, but I couldn't even have my 1911 sent out to me here in OK until after I turned 21.
Mike
Site Co-Founder
imported post
hightecrebel wrote:
hightecrebel wrote:
What is the age to possess a handgun in OK?? Cite?
TheMrMitch
Regular Member
imported post
"Back when I used to bother to discuss gun rights with antis, a number of them eventually confided to me that they didn't think they could trust themselves not to kill anybody if they had guns."
That's called PROJECTION and most antis are afflicted with it. :banghead:
"Back when I used to bother to discuss gun rights with antis, a number of them eventually confided to me that they didn't think they could trust themselves not to kill anybody if they had guns."
That's called PROJECTION and most antis are afflicted with it. :banghead:
Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
imported post
+1 VERY TRUE!
+1 VERY TRUE!
ClevelandCarry
Campaign Veteran
imported post
Basically, we are just wanting the opportunity to vote to allow citizens of Oklahoma to have theright to the same type of carry as LEO's.
Quite simply, a petition is being gathered for the opportunity to make it legal to OC in Oklahoma, and if the people vote "yes" on it, then that's simply the way it will be.
You don't even want to get me started on how I have to have a background check each time I buy a firearm, despite have a conceal carry license, C&R FFL license, and a spotless record (aside from a few traffic tickets) yet a repeat offender with DUI's can buy alcohol without producing a driver's license, may purchase vehicles, and even get insured.
Basically, we are just wanting the opportunity to vote to allow citizens of Oklahoma to have theright to the same type of carry as LEO's.
Quite simply, a petition is being gathered for the opportunity to make it legal to OC in Oklahoma, and if the people vote "yes" on it, then that's simply the way it will be.
You don't even want to get me started on how I have to have a background check each time I buy a firearm, despite have a conceal carry license, C&R FFL license, and a spotless record (aside from a few traffic tickets) yet a repeat offender with DUI's can buy alcohol without producing a driver's license, may purchase vehicles, and even get insured.
Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
imported post
ClevelandCarry wrote:
The public (gummint) school system (that I and many are the products of) were (and prob'ly still are) indoctrinated that gummint 'gives' citizens certain Rights. This is false socialist teaching. I argued this point whenI was 13 years old in Jr. High School (Middle School) back in1956. 'Got sent to the Principle's office for bein' 'disruptive'. That set my politicalawareness and beliefsfor the rest of my life. I'd never heard of the 'Left'... or 'Liberals'... 'Progressives' or even 'Socialists' (Other than the Nazi's) at that time... but I knew what Marxists, Bolsheviks'n Communists were about.
ClevelandCarry wrote:
You were born with that Right. Government doesn't grant 'Rights'... just recognizes 'em. Police don't carry as a Right... they carry as a Duty. It's a professional requirement. CC is by permit... or license... which is only to carry concealed... NOT to carry. Bearing arms is a Right. What States do is limit the exercise of the Right... or forbid thefree exercise of the Right completely.
The public (gummint) school system (that I and many are the products of) were (and prob'ly still are) indoctrinated that gummint 'gives' citizens certain Rights. This is false socialist teaching. I argued this point whenI was 13 years old in Jr. High School (Middle School) back in1956. 'Got sent to the Principle's office for bein' 'disruptive'. That set my politicalawareness and beliefsfor the rest of my life. I'd never heard of the 'Left'... or 'Liberals'... 'Progressives' or even 'Socialists' (Other than the Nazi's) at that time... but I knew what Marxists, Bolsheviks'n Communists were about.