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Weapon or other (Firearm, Gun, Pistol, Shotgun, Rifle)?

What do you call it?


  • Total voters
    48

Reverend73

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Let's think about this. Most of us carry firearms openly. Sometimes it scares people or evokes an emotional response. This does not stop us from OCing does it? Just because the term "weapon" may evoke somekind of irrational emotional response does not mean I will not use it. I honestly can't even believe some weapon's enthusiasts have a problem using the term. Like it or not, your Glock is a type of weapon. So is my HK, or haji's AK.
 

rob99vmi04

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Reverend73 wrote:
Let's think about this. Most of us carry firearms openly. Sometimes it scares people or evokes an emotional response. This does not stop us from OCing does it? Just because the term "weapon" may evoke somekind of irrational emotional response does not mean I will not use it. I honestly can't even believe some weapon's enthusiasts have a problem using the term. Like it or not, your Glock is a type of weapon. So is my HK, or haji's AK.


Your right to some it is, but it depends what hat your wearing. If your in Virginia and your walking around as a civilian. Your gun is not a weapon, if you don't believe me look on the permit and see what the state calls it.

Weapon is a generic term, however, to those who are firearm educators we want to be technically correct in what say.Just like saying bullets and rounds vs. cartridges.

Bullets are a component, a "Round", to some, shooters is 25 targets on a skeet or trap field involving a box of 25 shotgun shells.

Pistol, revovler are all fairly precise in definition. Weapon is generic and can cover anything not excluding firearms if they are such used in the act of violence.

Terminology also depends on your audience. A good and knowledgeable instructor is one that is well rounded and versed in a few areas. Bringing all tactics/terminology from one walk of life to another and teach people that they apply to another may be helpful but may also be illegal if that person is of that mindset and is trained in that school of thought.

I fully discourage teaching/ or reinforcingany civilian walking around the street witha handgun for protection that his gun is a weapon. Civilians have one of the hardest hats to wear when making the decision to pull a pistol/revovler and use it. Civilians are reacting to situations vs. being proactive therefore we are already behind the power curve and we are always going through a defensive OODA loop. If I use my pistol to defend myself I'm certian two things will happen 1) problem in most states is they most certainly will deal with a criminal charge immediately no matter what the circumstance even in a clear cut case of self defense. In Virginia this is almost certainly true,2) I'm probably facing civil litigation as well. Therefore, if I have to use my gun to defend myself, I want to distance myself from anyOffensive ineundomade by anybody toincrease my chances ofsurving a criminal trial and acivil trial.

If you walk around and call it a weapon does it bother me. Most certainly not! I'm no more offended then if you call it a high speed 15 round bullet launcher.

However, remember this: If you shoot somebody in America you have a good chance of being in a court room both criminal and civil. You are not being judged by a jury of 12 peers. Because ifyou where being judged by a jury of your peers and you had a clean shoot i.e. members of OCDO or people that are rational in general, we would take one look at you and say Self Defense whats the problem why are we hear? Can I go home now? Hey Hooters is still serving chicken wings want to tag a long? I'll buy the beer for helping cleanse the gene pool of scum.

The real problem is your facing 12 idiots who could not find a valid way to get out of jury duty or the worseside 12 people who wanted to judge you because they think what you did is wrong. Just remember everything you say can and MOST CERTAINLY WILL BE USED AGAINST YOU. I want every advantageI call it a Defensive Firearm.
 

Reverend73

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Let me be clear. I am not arguing that being more descriptive (ie my rifle is broken vice my weapon is broken) is not the preferred thing to do. I'm arguing that it is not logical to remove the term weapon from your vocabulary because some wrongly assume the term is indicative of an offensive engagement. Like Ed said, many states, such as Florida, have concealed weapons permits simply because they do not limit the type of weapon you may conceal. I think some truly have convinced themselves that their rifle or handgun is not a weapon, well, I hate to break it to you, it is. I also think instructing others that the term weapon indicates an offensive action is wrong and counter-productive.:)
 

AbNo

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ed wrote:
AbNo wrote:
Typically? Weapon.

Rarely: Firearm.

More-often-than-rarely: Gun.
So I guess my question to you (and those others that use the W word in a typical fashion).. would you be willing to use it less or not at all for the greater good?
All right, but only if you can tell me what I should call this, as well.




Do I get bonus points for time in the Service, as well?
 

ed

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DrMark wrote:
Weapon, gun, pistol, rifle, or whatever. Matters not to me.

I've never met anyone who got upset at the word weapon. Besides, emotional ninnies who'd get upset of one of those words could just as easily get upset at any of them.

Doing smallbore competition as a kid, the coaches called the rifles weapons, as in "Cease fire, ground your weapons." Maybe it was their military background, but no one was emotionally scarred by the experience.

I think it should matter. I don't get "upset" at the use of the word.. I choose not to use the word any longer in talking to others about firearms. As a kid I heard it called many things too. Now I am older and wiser... the W word has very negative connotations to it. Maybe those same instructors now don't use the W word either anymore.

I also correctfriends that ask me how many "bullets" are in my extra "clip".

When I posted the topic I did not expect everyone to agree with me 100% (or the NRA). I disagree with the NRA on many fronts.. on this one.. I agree with them.

Ed
 

Reverend73

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rob99vmi04 wrote:
I fully discourage teaching/ or reinforcingany civilian walking around the street witha handgun for protection that his gun is a weapon.

This make no sense to me. His pistol is a weapon. Now if you teach them that it is preferrable to call it a pistol, simply to be more descriptive, fine.But that it is "wrong" to use the term, I just don't get it.

rob99vmi04 wrote:
Now if your wearing a Civilian Hat, acting in the capacity of a Civilian (even though you maybe in the military) rules of engagement have changed. Your Firearm is strickly defensive. Therefore is it a weapon? I say no its not


Say what? So it is what exactly, an expensive paperweight?
 

ed

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AbNo wrote:
All right, but only if you can tell me what I should call this, as well.




Do I get bonus points for time in the Service, as well?
Upsidedown Black Heart being balanced on a pointy thing? And by posting it.. you helped prove my point.. thank you. Look at the POLL.. Most people do NOT use the W word to describe their gun. Even the VCDL Bumper stickers would sound stupid or oxymorinish if they read Weapons Save Lives.. It just don't not have that same ring to it. I don't care how it sounds to me(us).. I care how it sounds to non-gun owners.. becuase they all vote and can become supporters of my (our) rights or become anti's at the drop of a hat (or a scary name). And finally.. of course you get points for time in the service.. I would give you some of MY points since I only served two years.

Ed
 

Reverend73

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ed wrote:
I think it should matter. I don't get "upset" at the use of the word.. I choose not to use the word any longer in talking to others about firearms. As a kid I heard it called many things too. Now I am older and wiser... the W word has very negative connotations to it. Maybe those same instructors now don't use the W word either anymore.

I also correctfriends that ask me how many "bullets" are in my extra "clip".

When I posted the topic I did not expect everyone to agree with me 100% (or the NRA). I disagree with the NRA on many fronts.. on this one.. I agree with them.

Ed
Calling your pistol a knife would be wrong. Calling your magazine a clip would be wrong. Calling your pistol a weapon is not wrong. I still don't get where you get the belief that the term weapon has negative connotations to it? :question:
 

Reverend73

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ed wrote:
Reverend73 wrote:
I still don't get where you get the belief that the term weapon has negative connotations to it? :question:
The NRA teaches instructors NOT to use that word.

Well if they told you NOT to carry your 1911 cocked and locked, would you do that too? Come on Ed, lets think here. Just because you do not call your Mercedes Benz E55 AMG an automobile, does not mean it is not an automobile.



For the record, I rarely use the term weapon to describe my weapons, simply because I like to be more descriptive. Also, for the record, I voted that I use the terms interchangeably.
 

ed

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Reverend73 wrote:
Well if they told you NOT to carry your 1911 cocked and locked, would you do that too?
Nope.. like I said.. I don't agree with the NRA 100% of the time... but in this case, I agree with them.. and when I teach their certified course(s), I teach by their rules.. they ask me not to use that word when teaching.. so I don't..
 

Reverend73

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ed wrote:
... but in this case, I agree with them..
And this is my primary question. Why do you agree with them? Where do you get the belief that the term weapon has a negative connotation to it? I am merely curious, nothing more.
 

DrMark

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Reverend73 wrote:
ed wrote:
I think it should matter. I don't get "upset" at the use of the word.. I choose not to use the word any longer in talking to others about firearms. As a kid I heard it called many things too. Now I am older and wiser... the W word has very negative connotations to it. Maybe those same instructors now don't use the W word either anymore.

I also correctfriends that ask me how many "bullets" are in my extra "clip".

When I posted the topic I did not expect everyone to agree with me 100% (or the NRA). I disagree with the NRA on many fronts.. on this one.. I agree with them.

Ed
Calling your pistol a knife would be wrong. Calling your magazine a clip would be wrong. Calling your pistol a weapon is not wrong. I still don't get where you get the belief that the term weapon has negative connotations to it? :question:
I'm with Reverend73 on this one. I guess the term weapon could have negative connotations to some folks, but no more than the terms gun or pistol.

Ed, I understand playing my NRA's rules when working as an NRA instructor, even if I think their rules are baseless.

I often carry a pistol and a knife. I carry the knife primarily as a tool, but it could serve as a weapon if need be. However, the pistol is carried solely as a weapon -- its only role is one of lethal force should my life be in jeopardy.

To each his own...
 

ed

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DrMark wrote:
However, the pistol is carried solely as a weapon -- its only role is one of lethal force should my life be in jeopardy.
And I hope that you never have to use it for defense. If you do have to use it and the poilce and attorney's come knocking and civil cases defense.. you would want any single thing possible in your favor.. I submit to you that your using WEAPON in your arguments and explanations could end up changing any outcome that might result from that suit. I specically asked Alan Gura (Heller Attorney) this very same question... Honestly.. he said HE did not think it mattered that much.. but if it mattered AT ALL then why not use the term(s) that are the most mainstream (by the majority of our group, and what the NRA proposes wheather right or wrong). Also.. it is taught that the ONLY people that legally have WEAPONS are law enforcement and military. That said... others (maybe jurors) hear you say "weapon" in court and already draw a conclusion that you were on the offense instead of defense..

Like you said.. to each his own.

Ed
 

Reverend73

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ed wrote:
Also.. it is taught that the ONLY people that legally have WEAPONS are law enforcement and military.
Who teaches this? This is wrong.



I also believe calling your pistol a weapon in a trial would make any difference. Heck, if it was a clean shoot, it most likely will not even make it to trial.
 

Sonora Rebel

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I spent 20 years in Naval Aviation Ordnance (Weapons).We always referred to any firearm as 'Weapon'... never gun or pistol... or even 'Rifle'. (Naval rifles begin around 3" to 16" bore dia.)

My Arizona permit to carry concealed is a "Concealed Weapons Permit" (CWP) My sidearms and long guns are 'Weapons'... my knives, bayonets, swords 'n 'hawks are 'weapons'. Offense or defense is mode of use. 'Doesn't change the nomenclature or descriptive noun for such. 'Doesn't make them any less deadly should they be put to use. They are what they are.
 

deepdiver

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Even though in MO we have a "concealed carry weapons" (CCW) endorsement to CC, just to avoid the entire issue altogether with whatever audience, I refer to my handguns as sidearms typically. Legally they are legally carried weapons in this state (as are some other items I occasionally carry legally with my CCW), but I agree that the emotional weight the word "weapon" has on many people just isn't worth the hassle of the often following conversation. Sidearm for many is more innocuous and non-threatening it seems.
 
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