Open Carry in Cleveland National Forest *PLEASE READ!*

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Some interesting information I researched today (I will leave a trail for you guys via http links), that I found gut-wrenching. I contacted the Cleveland National Forest Ranger Station, designated for the area to which I would be hiking with my kids. Not hunting, or fishing, just hiking.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/cleveland/contact/


[align=center]Trabuco Ranger District[/align]

[align=center]Keith Fletcher, District Ranger
1147 East Sixth Street
Corona, CA 92879
(951) 736-1811
Fax - (951) 736-3002 [/align]
I asked to speak with someone who could give me specifics about open carrying during my visit to the N.F. I was transferred to a lady by the name of Mary who told me it was hunting season, and as long as it was hunting season, she said I could open carry a firearm. She didn’t specify what type of a firearm, or what type of ammo I could carry. She then said that when hunting season is over, you are no longer allowed to open carry a firearm, at all, unless you have a permit (????) I asked her what type of a permit? She said, one that allows you to carry a gun? I said "Oh you must be talking about a Handgun safety certificate." she said "yeah, whatever its called."



I then proceeded to call the orange county sheriffs department, south patrol.

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http://www.ocsd.org/divisions/patrol_ops_div/south_operations/

The area I would be hiking in with my kids, falls under their jurisdiction. I called the

North County division North County: 714-647-7000 and spoke to a Gentleman by the name of "Officer Klien" I explained to him the situation. (No hunting, No fishing, just hiking in the Cleveland National Forest) He said I needed to call them. I explained to him that there might be local or county ordinances that supersedes those of the National Forest. He kindly asked if I could be placed on hold. I agreed. About a minute later he came back to the phone and said

"You know we're all kind of dumbfounded about this question, but hold on, let me get a hold of my supervisor, and ask, can I put you on hold again?"

About 2 minutes later he came back and said his supervisor explained to him that OPEN CARRY IS ILLEGAL IN THE STATE OF CA, UNLESS YOU HAVE A CCW PERMIT. I said that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. His tone quickly changed and it was made apparent that he wasn’t going to spend another second on the phone arguing with me. He gave me a phone number to the CCW dept of the Orange county Sherriff’s Dept in Santa Ana. I called it, (714-647-7028) and it went to a Melissa Soto.

This makes me absolutely SICK to my stomach. Our own Peace officers don't even know the laws they enforce. What if I was out on a trail, hiking with my kid, and run across a Sherriff Deputy?

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Don't ask LE for legal info. LOC and UOC are not encountered ona regular basis in CA so they don't understand the interplay of 12025f and 12031g and People vs Clark, etc...

Read, understand, and print out the info from californiaopencarry.org. Find out who is in charge of training at the Dept. you called and pass it on to the LEOs in a friendly letter if you want to.

Keep in mind that if discharge is prohibited by law in UNincorporated territory then loaded OC is prohibited. Many areas of National Forest are no shooting areas for various reasons. UOC (unloaded OC with loaded mag separate) then is the legal way to carry.

Technicallythe Deputywas correct. LOC with a CCW (PC 12050 License to Carry) would exempt the OCers from all the loaded firearm prohibitions in CA IF the issuing agency has not prohibited OC on the license.

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Got it. Thanks.

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robishousin wrote:

Got it. Thanks.

Click to expand...

What no argument? Boy, you're not going to fit in here very well. :lol:

Carry On!

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cato wrote:

Technicallythe Deputywas correct. LOC with a CCW (PC 12050 License to Carry) would exempt the OCers from all the loaded firearm prohibitions in CA IF the issuing agency has not prohibited OC on the license.

Click to expand...

I agree with your interpretation...I never really realized it before myself...

12031(b)(6) expemts CCW holders from violating 12031(a)(1)

----------

12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when
he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a
vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a
prohibited area of unincorporated territory.


(b) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to any of the following:

(6) The carrying of pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable
of being concealed upon the person by persons who are authorized to
carry those weapons pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section
12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4.

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mjones wrote:

cato wrote:

Technicallythe Deputywas correct. LOC with a CCW (PC 12050 License to Carry) would exempt the OCers from all the loaded firearm prohibitions in CA IF the issuing agency has not prohibited OC on the license.

Click to expand...

I agree with your interpretation...I never really realized it before myself...

12031(b)(6) expemts CCW holders from violating 12031(a)(1)

----------

12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when
he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a
vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a
prohibited area of unincorporated territory.


(b) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to any of the following:

(6) The carrying of pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable
of being concealed upon the person by persons who are authorized to
carry those weapons pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section
12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4.

Click to expand...

Hmm... funny. Those licensed to carry concealed are not guilty of 12031 whencarrying a loaded weapon, even if they are openly carrying. Betcha that wouldnt stop the powers that be from taking some ill-advised action against the licensee.

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I didn't post to argue...I just wanted to get some feedback.

Mistake number 1 was asking LE about "laws"....

I just wanted to get a feel for what was going to be said by people with more knowledge than me about the situation.

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robishousin wrote:

Mistake number 1 was asking LE about "laws"....

Click to expand...

It doesn't really hurt to inquire, just don't use them as a definitive source of legal advice. Some have been pleasantly surprised to learn of LE's knowledge of and support for OC (aswith San Diego PDthis summer).

If you do find their training lacking, as LE doesn't encounter this ever, please follow up with a letter to the department documenting your inquire and asking them to educate the troops in the lawfulness of CA UOC generally and LOC where loaded in not prohibited.


And continue to read the info. at californiaopencarry.ord, past posts here, and at Calguns.net .