IDEAS FOR PA.'s DIXON DOZEN & OTHERS

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1.) Go to indoor public places and call LE when someone lights a cigarette. Secondhand smoke has been proven to harm people in the area. This is a far greater threat to people than the open carry of a gun. A pack of cigarettes in your pocket is no different than a gun on your hip. A few ignored complaints on smoking might just help support us in court.

2.) Cell phone use is an unknown risk at this time but radiation potential is there. Again, call LE because you feel threatened by there use. We open carry with the hope of never having to use the gun while cell phone users carrycell phones so they canbe used. Anyone think a disorderly conduct charge will be issued?

These were the easy ones. The more we have, the better we can show the abuse of the states police powers.

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Who was it that brought up the yearly anti-abortion protests along roadsides, and police not interferring because 1A rights? How many complaints do police get when they come to town, with no disorderly or disturbing the peace arrests made?

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You are OCing and an officer approaches you. He threatens you with DC after a MWAG call. His partner is also with him. You ask him if someone saw his partner's gun and was frightened, does that mean that you will arrest your partner for DC? It's the same thing!! OC by on-duty police is no different than OC by a citizen, it's simply the sheep's perception of the person doing it giving more credence to the government person being more responsible with it.

This could be an effective logical argument especially if LEO's approach you in a team.

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smithman wrote:

You are OCing and an officer approaches you. He threatens you with DC after a MWAG call. His partner is also with him. You ask him if someone saw his partner's gun and was frightened, does that mean that you will arrest your partner for DC? It's the same thing!! OC by on-duty police is no different than OC by a citizen, it's simply the sheep's perception of the person doing it giving more credence to the government person being more responsible with it.

This could be an effective logical argument especially if LEO's approach you in a team.

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Some good ideas!!! There have been people arrested for impersonating police officers so a group of open carriers should be just as if not more upset about their, the officer's,weapons being displayed. A uniform is not proof so more than one call about AMWAG should be the same.

Keep the ideas going......we're going to need them and stick together.

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trailblazer2003 wrote:

Who was it that brought up the yearly anti-abortion protests along roadsides, and police not interferring[sic] because 1A rights? How many complaints do police get when they come to town, with no disorderly or disturbing the peace arrests made?

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That is one of the points we should try and make when we interact with LEO. Carrying of a firearm is protected by the First Amendment (freedom of expression).

Also consider:

The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals case, Calabretta v. Floyd, 9th Cir. (1999) "involves whether a social worker and a police officer were entitled to qualified immunity, for a coerced entry into a home to investigate suspected child abuse, interrogation of a child, and strip search of a child, conducted without a search warrant and without a special exigency."

Now I realize this is a CPS case, however, if LEO violates ones 4th amendment rights, they LOOSE their "qualified immunity" and therefore can be directly sued for civil rights violations.

I would also argue, that harassment by LEO is a violation of the 14th amendment as well. Those who choose to open carry should be recognized as a protected class of citizen. Using Kassel's ORAL arguments, when he is asked about a DC charge, and he replies, "shouldn't be" and the room fills with laughter, that (along with the documents collected here, chalked full of implied and sometimes direct threats to the citizens) should be proof enough that the legal system is persecuting those who choose to open carry, and thus a 14th amendment violation.

To summarize, LEO harassing, detaining or otherwise interfering with, disarming, and arresting a law abiding citizen for simply open carrying of a firearm, is a violation of the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 14th amendments.

What we need, is a good civil rights attorney to make THIS argument on Para's (and others) behalf in a FEDERAL court. Sue the city, the PD, and the individual LEO for civil rights violations.

This is just my personal ranting on here, but I think we could get farther using an argument such as this, rather than just arguing the 2nd and/or Article 1, Section 25. Use them (2nd amendment and Article 1, Section 25) as a basis for the 1st and 14th amendment violation argument.

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bnhcomputing said: "What we need, is a good civil rights attorney to make THIS argument on Para's (and others) behalf in a FEDERAL court. Sue the city, the PD, and the individual LEO for civil rights violations."

VERY VERY important points. We need to organize and give support to those that are taking the full weight of government on their backs. Is there a fund for fighting these fights and an attorney ready for this? 2009 is coming at us like a freight train and we need to derail it ASAP.

bnh: Your entire post was good and I think you see the need for better organization too.