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Thread: (long story) Gun rights violated? question

  1. #1
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    Im new to this forum and live in prince william county VA, Ihave been looking for some firearms rights answers for awhile. Im 21 and was living and paying rent with my mother for a few months and we just started having problems and not getting along in general, two and half months ago i had my ruger 22 rifleand my brand new colt 45 taken from me by the cops after my mom called them while we were having an argument, i had the 22 for years and she had bought it for me, but had told me not to get a handgun... but i did anyway.

    Cops came and asked if any other firearms in the house, i said yes went with officer got the .45 and .22, he unloaded the .22 the .45 was not we went back upstairs where my mom said that i was irrational and acting crazy..which is total crap she was mad at me for having the gun, i was pretty upset at this point, (crying) as i'd been arguing with my mom, she wanted th guns out of the house or me out of the house, officers first said we cant violate his 2nd ammendement rights, i said fine i'll leave with the unloaded guns and goto a friends house to store them, they then wouldnt let me leave and then decided to take my firearms, the one officer kept trying to cooerce me intogoing with him and have my self checked (mentally)out at the hospital, i said forget it im fine, im just upset, they took my guns gave me no reciept that they took them and acted like i could pick them up at the station in a few day,

    They police now say there KEEPINGTHE GUNS FOR 120 days "safe keeping" and can get them after that if everything checks out okay, I was not charged with anything at all and broke no law, ive talked to the officer and his1st sergeant and they both gimme the same120 day safe keeping crap!

    please help what can i do!

    thanks





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    I'm no expert, but:



    Cops taking firearms with no charges filed + no receipt = THEFT.



    Lawyer up. Call the city police, the county sheriff, state police and the BATF. Get the names of the individual officers that came to your home and file charges against them personally. Not just the department, the individual officers.

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    Jeep, you might ask a mod to move this to the Virginia sub-forum. Your complaint rests very much in State law.

    I will say that if a felon may be properly disarmed under color of law then we can all be legally disarmed by sufficiently lowering the bar of 'felony', even to mere allegations of 'abuse' or 'disturbance'. Good luck.

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    I6CJ7 wrote:
    Im new to this forum and live in prince william county VA, Ihave been looking for some firearms rights answers for awhile. Im 21 and was living and paying rent with my mother for a few months and we just started having problems and not getting along in general, two and half months ago i had my ruger 22 rifleand my brand new colt 45 taken from me by the cops after my mom called them while we were having an argument, i had the 22 for years and she had bought it for me, but had told me not to get a handgun... but i did anyway.

    Cops came and asked if any other firearms in the house, i said yes went with officer got the .45 and .22, he unloaded the .22 the .45 was not we went back upstairs where my mom said that i was irrational and acting crazy..which is total crap she was mad at me for having the gun, i was pretty upset at this point, (crying) as i'd been arguing with my mom, she wanted th guns out of the house or me out of the house, officers first said we cant violate his 2nd ammendement rights, i said fine i'll leave with the unloaded guns and goto a friends house to store them, they then wouldnt let me leave and then decided to take my firearms, the one officer kept trying to cooerce me intogoing with him and have my self checked (mentally)out at the hospital, i said forget it im fine, im just upset, they took my guns gave me no reciept that they took them and acted like i could pick them up at the station in a few day,

    They police now say there KEEPINGTHE GUNS FOR 120 days "safe keeping" and can get them after that if everything checks out okay, I was not charged with anything at all and broke no law, ive talked to the officer and his1st sergeant and they both gimme the same120 day safe keeping crap!

    please help what can i do!

    thanks



    IANAL (I am not a lawyer)

    Well, I am sorry to hear your problem. I might suggest that next time they come you tell them that the only way they get your guns is with a warrant.

    You, as a renter have a legal right to be there and she can not command you be removed from the property as a legal renter, however the police can.

    From my understanding when it is made clear to them there may be a problem they can decide which one needs to go, and they usually side with the person that is most vulnerable (i.e. the woman, mother, etc.).

    They should have not prevented you from leaving. You were faced with a choice between surrendering your guns or leaving and you chose to leave with your guns. I see no legal reason for them keeping them except if they thought you were a danger to yourself or others, in which case they have the power to focibly detain and commit you. They did not, so I don't believe that they really believed so themselves. I think they just wanted to prevent any issue and sided on the er of caution instead of the law.

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    1) Move out and you can own as many guns as you like.

    2) Get a lawyer because those cops, even if they meant well, overstepped the bounds of their authority and stole your weapons.

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    I'm going to have to agree with the rest of the posts so far. They can't take your guns and not give you a receipt. That would be the same as if they got called to your house and decided to take your TV and your porn collection for 'safe keeping' for the next 120 days.

    It's a '**** or get of the pot' situation. They either need to formally charge you and arrest you (which they don't have grounds based on what you've said so far) or possibly commit you for mental/psychiatric review if they think you're a danger to yourself/others (which they've obviously opted not to do) OR they need to give you back your firearms, which they have no reason for withholding. They didn't have a warrant, and they didn't collect it as evidence of a crime.

    Lawyer up. They can either give you back your legally owned property, or the impending lawsuit will put you through college and get you a couple of new toys.

    Just my two cents. I'm not a lawyer, seek one out.
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    File a theft report.

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    No physical violence? No Verbal threats (like I have a gun mom,get off my back). ?

    then either you had some very bad stuff to say to Mom, which is wrong, I don't care how old you are, in my life Mom is among the most precious things I have..

    If you didn't violate any of the above, I'd Call the State police and initiate an investigation into two gentlemen dressed and posed as police officers and came into my rented domicile and stole/confiscated two firearms, without my consent. I do hope you have some proof of ownership, or either model/make/and serial#'s..

    andno matter what the immediate outcome(ie.return of your property or whatever) I'd definitely get a lawyer. this might be like hitting the LOTTERY !!:celebrate

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    thanks for all the help and advice, I guess my best course of action would be to talk to a criminal attorney and see ifmy rights were truly violated, as i believe they were, then get my get my guns back and get some serious compensation out of the deal

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    I6CJ7 wrote:
    thanks for all the help and advice, I guess my best course of action would be to talk to a criminal attorney and see ifmy rights were truly violated, as i believe they were, then get my get my guns back and get some serious compensation out of the deal
    God, this is really, reallygonna hurt me to say this.

    The cops may havedone you a favor, deliberately or accidentally.

    Taking your guns is less serious, far less serious, than you falling into the hands of psychiatrists for evaluation. Psychs are notorious for mis-diagnosing people. Once you are in their clutches, all it takes is for the psych to say you aredangerous to yourself or others and whamo. The door is now open for a court to order involuntary treatment, which can cost you your gun rights. If it can come back to bite the psych--say he diagnosedsomebody as safe, but that person then went berserk--what might you want to bet that the psych would rule a person dangerous to be on the safe side?

    If I was a cop. And I had a choice between taking a guy for a mental evaluation based on his own mother's report, or taking his guns. I'd take the guns.

    This assumes I couldn't think of any other solutions. Actually, I'd dig in deeper and find out just how hysterical mom's report really was. Was she serious? Was he really unbalanced? Or was she just yammering to get even?

    This is one area where I would leave the door open for good police officers toexercise judgement. Ipersonally would not sueandpressure police start routinely taking people forpsych evaluation. Personally, I'd weigh thecost of an attorney against just waiting120 days. If the attorney was going to cost more than another gun, I'd just buy another gun for personal protection in the meantime.

    Or maybe just talk to the cops and convince them I wasn't nuts.

    In any event, I'd at least consult an attorney about the possibility oftriggering an involuntary psych evaluation if I attempted to get my guns back before the 120 days expired. I don't know much about this area of law. I don't know if the police can still recommend an involuntary psych eval based on the earlier incident. Maybe they can recommend it to a magistrate or prosecutor. I don't know. I'd be very careful of my legal position.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    I'm thinking possible troll.
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    Citizen wrote:
    I6CJ7 wrote:
    thanks for all the help and advice, I guess my best course of action would be to talk to a criminal attorney and see ifmy rights were truly violated, as i believe they were, then get my get my guns back and get some serious compensation out of the deal
    God, this is really, reallygonna hurt me to say this.

    The cops may havedone you a favor, deliberately or accidentally.

    Taking your guns is less serious, far less serious, than you falling into the hands of psychiatrists for evaluation. Psychs are notorious for mis-diagnosing people. Once you are in their clutches, all it takes is for the psych to say you aredangerous to yourself or others and whamo. The door is now open for a court to order involuntary treatment, which can cost you your gun rights. If it can come back to bite the psych--say he diagnosedsomebody as safe, but that person then went berserk--what might you want to bet that the psych would rule a person dangerous to be on the safe side?

    If I was a cop. And I had a choice between taking a guy for a mental evaluation based on his own mother's report, or taking his guns. I'd take the guns.

    This assumes I couldn't think of any other solutions. Actually, I'd dig in deeper and find out just how hysterical mom's report really was. Was she serious? Was he really unbalanced? Or was she just yammering to get even?

    This is one area where I would leave the door open for good police officers toexercise judgement. Ipersonally would not sueandpressure police start routinely taking people forpsych evaluation. Personally, I'd weigh thecost of an attorney against just waiting120 days. If the attorney was going to cost more than another gun, I'd just buy another gun for personal protection in the meantime.

    Or maybe just talk to the cops and convince them I wasn't nuts.

    In any event, I'd at least consult an attorney about the possibility oftriggering an involuntary psych evaluation if I attempted to get my guns back before the 120 days expired. I don't know much about this area of law. I don't know if the police can still recommend an involuntary psych eval based on the earlier incident. Maybe they can recommend it to a magistrate or prosecutor. I don't know. I'd be very careful of my legal position.
    that's a good point. doctor's of all shades can wreck havoc on you legally if they so choose to do so. If they don't like guns and think you are a nutcase simply for owning one.....guess what? You are a nutcase.

    This one I too would rather blame your mom than the cops. I try to be fair when analyzing the cop's actions. I'm not anti law enforcement like a small unfortunate percentage of this country and this board are. They have a job to do and most do the best they can based upon the information (true or not) that is presented to them.

    I don't know of the reality of the situation but the best place to start here, I would think, would be to try to talk with your mom. There seems to be something more to the story that we don't know. You two need to work it out and come to some sort of reality. Life is short. When you are 21 it's sometimes hard to see that (no offense intended). If you two can sit down and talk rationally about what happened perhaps she can come to accept the fact that you are now an adult and can carry a handgun. Besides she already bought you a rifle. Then perhaps both of you can visit the police station and explain to them the situation. Ultimately, this is your only solution to the entire debacle.

    Good luck.

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    richarcm wrote:
    SNIP doctor's of all shades can wreck havoc on you legally if they so choose to do so. If they don't like guns and think you are a nutcase simply for owning one.....guess what? You are a nutcase.
    Heavens. It never occurred to me. Of course!
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Its just my mom being a mom yammering on, she has a lot of control issues, I've had the cops called on me for alot of bogus things over the years and they come and just tell her you cant call us for stupid things, Im not worried about being commited although she also talked to the cop about how she could go about and try to have me commited. But i guess my point is my mom was mad and just said i was acting crazy and they believed her. And by the same token could'nt i go anywhere up to anyone and say that they're crazy and the cops would have to believe me and seize there guns and weapons? so where is the line drawn? They should've looked at the record for our household and seen how many times the cops were called for bogus things, which is probably inthe neighborhood of 10-15 times honestly

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    I forgot to mentionone ofthe most angering things besideswhen they took my guns When the cop was in the basement handling the .45 he goes to check the clip for ammo and says qoute "how do you get the clip out?" then finds the mag releasepresses itand the clip flies out and hits the concrete floor...i almost had an aneurysm, ITS A 1911 COLT .45 for crying out loud, how long have they been around!? And this was'nt a rookie cop he was some 45-50 yr old guy thats been on the force forever and was just recently promoted to detective! And as he was walking back up the stairs he dropped the clip for the .22 and i had to catch it as it fell down. PWC'S finest? what a joke

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    I don't want to sound flippant or unconcerned. But I can tell when its more than I can chew.

    I'm sorry I can't offer any other suggestions. I hope it works out for you.

    Well, maybe one other suggestion. Perhaps you can get away for a little while. Maybe stay with a relative or friend for a few weeks to de-stress from the home environment. It mightgive mom a chance to cool off, too.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    You need to lawyer up. They are the ones that can best analyze the situation. I suggest that you seek legal counsel immediately while the events are still fresh in your head. They will know what to focus on and if you have any legal recourse.

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    I6CJ7 wrote:
    ....I've had the cops called on me for alot of bogus things over the years and they come and just tell her you cant call us for stupid things
    ...although she also talked to the cop about how she could go about and try to have me commited.
    But i guess my point is my mom was mad and just said i was acting crazy and they believed her
    ... They should've looked at the record for our household and seen how many times the cops were called for bogus things, which is probably inthe neighborhood of 10-15 times honestly
    I hope everything works out for you in the end.

    Look at the statements you made. I think the cops may very well have done you a favor. As you stated, your household does have a "record" or reputation with them. They removed the firearms rather than removing you or your mother.It givesyou and your mother an opportunity tocalm down and try to work things out without creating an offical, on paperrecord of domestic violence or psych issues that would come back and haunt either one of you.

    Take the opportunity presented to calm down and try to work things out.

    DocV



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    It would not be the first time law enforcement had removed guns from a possible violent situation. I believe they did so at the home owner's request. I thing this is a variation of the old ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

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    I'm not sure what to say....but you won't like what I do say.

    As said before, read what you wrote. If you don't think there's a problem, your beyond help!

    Your mother and father should be the dearest thing in your life, followed by wife and kids. At nearly three times your age, if my mother were living and told me to do something, the only words out of my mouth would be, "Yes Mam"!

    The police are the last people in the world you want involved in your family life.

    I have never understood requiring your children to pay rent, or children wanting to do it. I have always told my kids it's their home and they may come home anytime, but they live by the house rules. Time for you to leave the nest.

    Your too old for this!

    Wait the 120 days and get your guns back. Considering the atmosphere you describe, they're the smallest problem you have.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    The guns are the least of your problems. My advice:

    1) Move out & take responsibility for your own life.

    2) Work on repairing your relationship with your mother.

    3) Youmay beon the verge of having the police or your mom try and put you in the psych system. It is a scary system that often seems random and arbitrary. It is also a system in which you can permanently loose your RKBA. I am usually hard over on standing up loudly and assertively for your rights, but for you a calm and reserved approach may keep you in the ranks of gun bearers and out of the funny farm.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    peter nap wrote:
    I'm not sure what to say....but you won't like what I do say.

    As said before, read what you wrote. If you don't think there's a problem, your beyond help!

    Your mother and father should be the dearest thing in your life, followed by wife and kids. At nearly three times your age, if my mother were living and told me to do something, the only words out of my mouth would be, "Yes Mam"!

    The police are the last people in the world you want involved in your family life.

    I have never understood requiring your children to pay rent, or children wanting to do it. I have always told my kids it's their home and they may come home anytime, but they live by the house rules. Time for you to leave the nest.

    Your too old for this!

    Wait the 120 days and get your guns back. Considering the atmosphere you describe, they're the smallest problem you have.
    I'm not sure abou the smallest but they sure are way down on the list. We are hearing only one side of the storyand most don't seem to be liking that side. As several have pointed out this can get very nasty and I can guarantee you that the police and judge will tend to favor the mother unless there is a demonstrated problem. Right now we are struggling with my mother suffering from dementia and we are having a hard time deciding what to do so I understand the problems with parents.

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    Thundar wrote:
    The guns are the least of your problems. My advice:

    1) Move out & take responsibility for your own life.

    2) Work on repairing your relationship with your mother.

    3) Youmay beon the verge of having the police or your mom try and put you in the psych system. It is a scary system that often seems random and arbitrary. It is also a system in which you can permanently loose your RKBA. I am usually hard over on standing up loudly and assertively for your rights, but for you a calm and reserved approach may keep you in the ranks of gun bearers and out of the funny farm.
    I agree with Thundar.. and would like to add 2 things to what he said to you.



    1) Move out & take responsibility for your own life. RIGHT NOW and NEVER move back home... ever.

    I would also add to number 2. Learn about co-dependent relationships and learn how to establish boundaries (For yourself and others in your life.) Generally co-dependent relationships have allot of turmoil... so if the shoe fits...

    FreeFlight

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    Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950]


    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

    Free Flight

  24. #24
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    PT111 wrote:
    peter nap wrote: Right now we are struggling with my mother suffering from dementia and we are having a hard time deciding what to do so I understand the problems with parents.
    My sympathy goes out to you. I went through that with both my Mother and my wife's. It was the hardest decision I've ever made. The wrong choice can also tear your family apart and either way, is unbelievably hard on you. My brother, sister and I chose to care for our mother while my wife's brothers out voted her and put her in a home. I'm not really sure which was best.

    It is difficult though. Once we were going to take her mother shopping. She took a shower but forgot to get dressed. We pulled up at the home to pick her up, and there she stood on the curb...wearing the emperors new suit!:shock:

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    Call Larry Pratt at Gun owners of America (located in Springfield Virginia). One call from him to Cheif Charlie Dean and you will have your guns back. What the police did here was illegal.That being said your momma can say you can't have a weapon in the home, if it's her home. Assuming your name is not on the lease or mortgage as a tenant or homeowner. Time to rent a room somewhere. I once lived in Prince William and for $300 you can rent a room (check Craigslist). You should have your own place anyway.

    I might mention that a quality locking case with a anchoring cable attached to the bed frame or something, a lock on your bedroom door, and beingvery privateabout your weapons goes a long way in the roommate world. No one needs to know you have them. I would probably store the rifle in my car trunk if I had a roommate. The .45 would be my carry weapon or in a lock box if left itat home.

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