(long story) Gun rights violated? question

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The guns are the least of your problems. My advice:

1) Move out & take responsibility for your own life.

2) Work on repairing your relationship with your mother.

3) Youmay beon the verge of having the police or your mom try and put you in the psych system. It is a scary system that often seems random and arbitrary. It is also a system in which you can permanently loose your RKBA. I am usually hard over on standing up loudly and assertively for your rights, but for you a calm and reserved approach may keep you in the ranks of gun bearers and out of the funny farm.

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peter nap wrote:

I'm not sure what to say....but you won't like what I do say.

As said before, read what you wrote. If you don't think there's a problem, your beyond help!

Your mother and father should be the dearest thing in your life, followed by wife and kids. At nearly three times your age, if my mother were living and told me to do something, the only words out of my mouth would be, "Yes Mam"!

The police are the last people in the world you want involved in your family life.

I have never understood requiring your children to pay rent, or children wanting to do it. I have always told my kids it's their home and they may come home anytime, but they live by the house rules. Time for you to leave the nest.

Your too old for this!

Wait the 120 days and get your guns back. Considering the atmosphere you describe, they're the smallest problem you have.

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I'm not sure abou the smallest but they sure are way down on the list. We are hearing only one side of the storyand most don't seem to be liking that side. As several have pointed out this can get very nasty and I can guarantee you that the police and judge will tend to favor the mother unless there is a demonstrated problem. Right now we are struggling with my mother suffering from dementia and we are having a hard time deciding what to do so I understand the problems with parents.

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Thundar wrote:

The guns are the least of your problems. My advice:

1) Move out & take responsibility for your own life.

2) Work on repairing your relationship with your mother.

3) Youmay beon the verge of having the police or your mom try and put you in the psych system. It is a scary system that often seems random and arbitrary. It is also a system in which you can permanently loose your RKBA. I am usually hard over on standing up loudly and assertively for your rights, but for you a calm and reserved approach may keep you in the ranks of gun bearers and out of the funny farm.

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I agree with Thundar.. and would like to add 2 things to what he said to you.



1) Move out & take responsibility for your own life. RIGHT NOW and NEVER move back home... ever.

I would also add to number 2. Learn about co-dependent relationships and learn how to establish boundaries (For yourself and others in your life.) Generally co-dependent relationships have allot of turmoil... so if the shoe fits...

FreeFlight

"No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."

Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950]

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PT111 wrote:

peter nap wrote: Right now we are struggling with my mother suffering from dementia and we are having a hard time deciding what to do so I understand the problems with parents.

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My sympathy goes out to you. I went through that with both my Mother and my wife's. It was the hardest decision I've ever made. The wrong choice can also tear your family apart and either way, is unbelievably hard on you. My brother, sister and I chose to care for our mother while my wife's brothers out voted her and put her in a home. I'm not really sure which was best.

It is difficult though. Once we were going to take her mother shopping. She took a shower but forgot to get dressed. We pulled up at the home to pick her up, and there she stood on the curb...wearing the emperors new suit!:shock:

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Call Larry Pratt at Gun owners of America (located in Springfield Virginia). One call from him to Cheif Charlie Dean and you will have your guns back. What the police did here was illegal.That being said your momma can say you can't have a weapon in the home, if it's her home. Assuming your name is not on the lease or mortgage as a tenant or homeowner. Time to rent a room somewhere. I once lived in Prince William and for $300 you can rent a room (check Craigslist). You should have your own place anyway.

I might mention that a quality locking case with a anchoring cable attached to the bed frame or something, a lock on your bedroom door, and beingvery privateabout your weapons goes a long way in the roommate world. No one needs to know you have them. I would probably store the rifle in my car trunk if I had a roommate. The .45 would be my carry weapon or in a lock box if left itat home.

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peter nap wrote:

PT111 wrote:

peter nap wrote: Right now we are struggling with my mother suffering from dementia and we are having a hard time deciding what to do so I understand the problems with parents.

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My sympathy goes out to you. I went through that with both my Mother and my wife's. It was the hardest decision I've ever made. The wrong choice can also tear your family apart and either way, is unbelievably hard on you. My brother, sister and I chose to care for our mother while my wife's brothers out voted her and put her in a home. I'm not really sure which was best.

It is difficult though. Once we were going to take her mother shopping. She took a shower but forgot to get dressed. We pulled up at the home to pick her up, and there she stood on the curb...wearing the emperors new suit!:shock:

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She hasn't done quite that yet but she did go to church one Sunday with two blouses on but no skirt, only her slip. It was right after thatwhen we took her car keys. My next door neighbor got a call one day that his mother was out working in her garden in her birthday suit.

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peter nap wrote:

I'm not sure what to say....but you won't like what I do say.

As said before, read what you wrote. If you don't think there's a problem, your beyond help!

Your mother and father should be the dearest thing in your life, followed by wife and kids. At nearly three times your age, if my mother were living and told me to do something, the only words out of my mouth would be, "Yes Mam"!

The police are the last people in the world you want involved in your family life.

I have never understood requiring your children to pay rent, or children wanting to do it. I have always told my kids it's their home and they may come home anytime, but they live by the house rules. Time for you to leave the nest.

Your too old for this!

Wait the 120 days and get your guns back. Considering the atmosphere you describe, they're the smallest problem you have.

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I'm sorry but this advice is pretty offensive to me. Parents, like children, are far from perfect. We all make mistakes.

Who can say what the problem is here? But we can say for sure that there is a problem. If your mom is calling the cops on you, something is really wrong and pretending that 'Mommy knows best' isn't going to solve anything. We can try and retreat into some fantasy world where parents are always right and they always have good intentions but that's just another form of denial.

Perhaps you should look into family counseling sessions that would include both you and your mother.

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I don't know Virginia law with regards to renting....

But, in Utah if you are over 18 and live in your parents home WITHOUT paying rent, you are NOT legally a tenant and they can legally demand that you leave at any time.

If you pay rent in the same situtation then your ARE a LEGAL tenant and in order for you to be kicked out they must go thru the legal eviction process.

IF the above is the same as Virginia law then the questions are:

Are you a legal renter?... IF yes, this was a tenant/landlord dispute and the police messed up BAD, especially if they entered your SPACE without your consent, a warrant, or exigent circumstances.

If you are NOT a legal renter (not paying rent) then MOM can demand that you leave at any time but they cops still don't have much of a leg to stand on with the confiscation of your firearms.

Finally, If no criminal charges have been filed against you a criminal defense attourney may not be your best option... better to get a lawyer well versed in your civil rights!

REMEMBER, THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY! I AM NOT A LAWYER, NOR DO I CLAIM TO BE!

I did sleep at a Holiday Inn once, however!

JoeSparky

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Theseus wrote:

I6CJ7 wrote:

Im new to this forum and live in prince william county VA, I have been looking for some firearms rights answers for awhile. Im 21 and was living and paying rent with my mother for a few months and we just started having problems and not getting along in general, two and half months ago i had my ruger 22 rifle and my brand new colt 45 taken from me by the cops after my mom called them while we were having an argument, i had the 22 for years and she had bought it for me, but had told me not to get a handgun... but i did anyway.

Cops came and asked if any other firearms in the house, i said yes went with officer got the .45 and .22, he unloaded the .22 the .45 was not we went back upstairs where my mom said that i was irrational and acting crazy..which is total crap she was mad at me for having the gun, i was pretty upset at this point, (crying) as i'd been arguing with my mom, she wanted th guns out of the house or me out of the house, officers first said we cant violate his 2nd ammendement rights, i said fine i'll leave with the unloaded guns and goto a friends house to store them, they then wouldnt let me leave and then decided to take my firearms, the one officer kept trying to cooerce me into going with him and have my self checked (mentally)out at the hospital, i said forget it im fine, im just upset, they took my guns gave me no reciept that they took them and acted like i could pick them up at the station in a few day, 

They police now say there KEEPING THE GUNS FOR 120 days "safe keeping" and can get them after that if everything checks out okay, I was not charged with anything at all and broke no law, ive talked to the officer and his 1st sergeant and they both gimme the same 120 day safe keeping crap!

please help what can i do! 

thanks 

 

 

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IANAL (I am not a lawyer)

Well, I am sorry to hear your problem. I might suggest that next time they come you tell them that the only way they get your guns is with a warrant.

You, as a renter have a legal right to be there and she can not command you be removed from the property as a legal renter, however the police can.

From my understanding when it is made clear to them there may be a problem they can decide which one needs to go, and they usually side with the person that is most vulnerable (i.e. the woman, mother, etc.).

They should have not prevented you from leaving. You were faced with a choice between surrendering your guns or leaving and you chose to leave with your guns. I see no legal reason for them keeping them except if they thought you were a danger to yourself or others, in which case they have the power to focibly detain and commit you. They did not, so I don't believe that they really believed so themselves. I think they just wanted to prevent any issue and sided on the er of caution instead of the law.

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I6CJ7 wrote:

Im new to this forum and live in prince william county VA, I have been looking for some firearms rights answers for awhile. Im 21 and was living and paying rent with my mother for a few months and we just started having problems and not getting along in general, two and half months ago i had my ruger 22 rifle and my brand new colt 45 taken from me by the cops after my mom called them while we were having an argument, i had the 22 for years and she had bought it for me, but had told me not to get a handgun... but i did anyway.

Cops came and asked if any other firearms in the house, i said yes went with officer got the .45 and .22, he unloaded the .22 the .45 was not we went back upstairs where my mom said that i was irrational and acting crazy..which is total crap she was mad at me for having the gun, i was pretty upset at this point, (crying) as i'd been arguing with my mom, she wanted th guns out of the house or me out of the house, officers first said we cant violate his 2nd ammendement rights, i said fine i'll leave with the unloaded guns and goto a friends house to store them, they then wouldnt let me leave and then decided to take my firearms, the one officer kept trying to cooerce me into going with him and have my self checked (mentally)out at the hospital, i said forget it im fine, im just upset, they took my guns gave me no reciept that they took them and acted like i could pick them up at the station in a few day, 

They police now say there KEEPING THE GUNS FOR 120 days "safe keeping" and can get them after that if everything checks out okay, I was not charged with anything at all and broke no law, ive talked to the officer and his 1st sergeant and they both gimme the same 120 day safe keeping crap!

please help what can i do! 

thanks 

 

 

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Hef wrote:

1) Move out and you can own as many guns as you like.

2) Get a lawyer because those cops, even if they meant well, overstepped the bounds of their authority and stole your weapons.

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They did not steal the guns and did not overstep their boundaries.

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frommycolddeadhands wrote:

I'm going to have to agree with the rest of the posts so far. They can't take your guns and not give you a receipt. That would be the same as if they got called to your house and decided to take your TV and your porn collection for 'safe keeping' for the next 120 days.

It's a '@#$% or get of the pot' situation. They either need to formally charge you and arrest you (which they don't have grounds based on what you've said so far) or possibly commit you for mental/psychiatric review if they think you're a danger to yourself/others (which they've obviously opted not to do) OR they need to give you back your firearms, which they have no reason for withholding. They didn't have a warrant, and they didn't collect it as evidence of a crime.

Lawyer up. They can either give you back your legally owned property, or the impending lawsuit will put you through college and get you a couple of new toys.

Just my two cents. I'm not a lawyer, seek one out.

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nitrovic wrote:

The warrant issue is not correct. If there was threats of suicide the police have a right to take the guns for 120 days.

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Cite, please?

The first paragraph, it's not the same. TV's and guns are obviously different.

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Is one of these not property? Would it be different if a dog that was taken instead?

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"If there was threats of suicide the police have a right to take the guns for 120 days."
Cite the applicable section of VA Code, please. (And the police do not have "rights", they have "powers".)

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nitrovic wrote:

Of topic, would people who do not know the laws and no nothing about LEO rights and the law in general PLEASE STOP POSTING IGNORANT THOUGHTS!! This includes you Doug Hoffman. You people give bad advice and are going to end up getting somebody arrested or owing large amounts of money on a bad lawsuit. Please stop.

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We're waiting...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

It is one method of obtaining propositional knowledge, but a fallacy in regard to logic, because the validity of a claim does not follow from the credibility of the source. The corresponding reverse case would be an ad hominem attack: to imply that the claim is false because the asserter lacks authority or is otherwise objectionable in some way.

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Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA KMA$$

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I6CJ7 wrote:

Im new to this forum and live in prince william county VA, Ihave been looking for some firearms rights answers for awhile. Im 21 and was living and paying rent with my mother for a few months and we just started having problems and not getting along in general,...

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If your having problems with a live-in landlord (your mother), or a room mate, then getting the guns out of the house, and into a secure location is not a bad idea. While it's doubtful that your mother would have put them to, or let them be put to bad use, At least now she cannot turn them into the police to be melted down (Similar things have been known to happen).



I6CJ7 wrote:

..., two and half months ago i had my ruger 22 rifle and my brand new colt 45 taken from me by the cops after my mom called them while we were having an argument, i had the 22 for years and she had bought it for me, but had told me not to get a handgun... but i did anyway.

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If you had been living in my house (regardless of you paying rent), and brought a handgun into the house after being asked not to, I'd have had you evicted, and I might possibly have called the cops to have them remove the guns. It's her house, and if she doesn't want a handgun there, then she doesn't have to tolerate it. Your mother may have control issues (and I sugest you get help with some of those issues like codependency as someone suggested), but that doesn't excuse your disrespectful behavior. What you did was wrong.

I think that in this situation, the cops did the right thing by seizing your firearms. They've given you 120 days to find another place to live and establish residence. I sugest you make good use of that time.


I6CJ7 wrote:

They police now say there KEEPING THE GUNS FOR 120 days "safe keeping" and can get them after that if everything checks out okay, I was not charged with anything at all and broke no law, ive talked to the officer and his 1st sergeant and they both gimme the same 120 day safe keeping crap!

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You may well need a lawyer to get the guns back, but based on your posts, I'd say you've got other problems. I'm wondering if they saw something in your behavior that may have given them the impression that they needed to seize those guns. If your mother is as controling as you make her out to be, then it's a good chance that you've been affected by it in such a manner as to your own behavior. IOW, you may have similar issues, or at least ones that are related. The fact that you admittedly got the 1911 after she told you not to is indicative of that.

My advice to you is to move out, and work on getting help in dealing with relationships. I wouldn't get your hopes of getting the guns back, but you could still try after the 120. Colt .45's aren't cheap guns. If you can affort one of them, then chances are you should be able to afford your own place. I understand the need for protection, but it should also be ballanced with life's other necessities.

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AbNo wrote:

nitrovic wrote:

The warrant issue is not correct. If there was threats of suicide the police have a right to take the guns for 120 days.

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Cite, please?

The first paragraph, it's not the same. TV's and guns are obviously different.

Click to expand...

Is one of these not property? Would it be different if a dog that was taken instead?

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Doug Huffman wrote:

nitrovic wrote:

Of topic, would people who do not know the laws and no nothing about LEO rights and the law in general PLEASE STOP POSTING IGNORANT THOUGHTS!! This includes you Doug Hoffman. You people give bad advice and are going to end up getting somebody arrested or owing large amounts of money on a bad lawsuit. Please stop.

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We're waiting...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

It is one method of obtaining propositional knowledge, but a fallacy in regard to logic, because the validity of a claim does not follow from the credibility of the source. The corresponding reverse case would be an ad hominem attack: to imply that the claim is false because the asserter lacks authority or is otherwise objectionable in some way.

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Either we are equal or we are not.  Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth.  NRA KMA$$

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Ahhh yes!!!! The cut and paster is back!!!! :lol:

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johnfenter wrote:

"If there was threats of suicide the police have a right to take the guns for 120 days."
Cite the applicable section of VA Code, please.  (And the police do not have "rights", they have "powers".) 

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Ok, then they have the power to take the guns. Feel better?