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Voting Armed in Ca...

cato

cato

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Oct 29, 2006
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California, USA
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mjones wrote:

Its illegal in CA (corrections welcome)

http://leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=82341710038+15+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

CALIFORNIA CODES
ELECTIONS CODE

18544. (a) Any person in possession of a firearm or any uniformed
peace officer, private guard, or security personnel or any person who
is wearing a uniform of a peace officer, guard, or security
personnel, who is stationed in the immediate vicinity of, or posted
at, a polling place without written authorization of the appropriate
city or county elections official is punishable by a fine not
exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000), by imprisonment in the
state prison for 16 months or two or three years or in a county jail
not exceeding one year, or by both the fine and imprisonment.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(1) An unarmed uniformed guard or security personnel who is at the
polling place to cast his or her vote.
(2) A peace officer who is conducting official business in the
course of his or her public employment or who is at the polling place
to cast his or her vote.
(3) A private guard or security personnel hired or arranged for by
a city or county elections official.
(4) A private guard or security personnel hired or arranged for by
the owner or manager of the facility or property in which the
polling place is located if the guard or security personnel is not
hired or arranged solely for the day on which an election is held.
Click to expand...


Based on a reading of this statute only, you as a votermay carry a firearm at a polling place generally.



Lets break this down into it's elements that we care about:


18544. (a) Any person in possession of a firearm...

who is stationed in the immediate vicinity of, or posted
at, a polling place without written authorization of the appropriate
city or county elections official is punishable by...(a felony)
Click to expand...



so if you are not stationed or posted...voting armed is NO CRIME in Ca (provided possession is otherwise lawful - ie: not in a government building or school zone etc...).

Hmmm...is 171b in effect at all polling places?





note: I am not an attorney and this is not legal advice ;)
 
cato

cato

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find one that is not and vote provisionally...

don't forget video doc. crew, friendly witnesses, etc...:)

um...on second thought wait for incorporation and some favorable carry case law as you'd be toying with a felony on this one.
 
T

Theseus

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Lamma Island, HK
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At first look it appears that it is including any person...but it does seem that it is only talking about people that are there for any reason OTHER than to cast a vote. . .

So there is no PC that makes the polling place a government building?
 
cato

cato

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171(b)(7)(c)As used in this section, "state or local public building"
means a building that meets all of the following criteria:
(1) It is a building or part of a building owned or leased by the
state or local government, if state or local public employees are
regularly present for the purposes of performing their official
duties. A state or local public building includes, but is not
limited to, a building that contains a courtroom.
(2) It is not a building or facility, or a part thereof, that is
referred to in Section 171c, 171d, 626.9, 626.95, or 626.10 of this
code, or in Section 18544 of the Elections Code.
Click to expand...
171 (b) (7) (c) (2) says specifically above that a polling place ( as in section 18544) is not a publicbuilding as defined in 171b.
 
cato

cato

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CA_Libertarian wrote:
Great info Cato, thanks for researching that.

I usually vote absentee, but I think I might just find a polling place where I can open carry this year...
Click to expand...

Um...I thought you might :lol:

So plan ahead this time. And have some unarmed back-up OK? Do a youtube video.

I wonder if the Sac Ter. Center can get out a memo before 11/04 on this? Maybe you should give them a call?;)
 
T

TheCiscoKid

Regular Member
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Jun 20, 2008
Messages
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Location
Los Angeles, California, USA
imported post

guys, i may be reading it totally wrong, but i'm not interpreting it the same way you guys are. it seems to me that it's broken up into TWO categories, both of which are illegal.

1) Any person in possession of a firearm

2) or any uniformed peace officer, private guard, or security personnel or any person who is wearing a uniform of a peace officer, guard, or security personnel, who is stationed in the immediate vicinity of, or posted at, a polling place without written authorization of the appropriate city or county elections official...


the uniformed peace officer, private guard, etc. part makes no mention of they being armed. it just mentions being "posted" at the polling place.

so it seems to me that they're saying "any person" is an average citizen in plain clothes.

i'm reading as this: "no average citizen in plain clothes can carry a gun, and no uniformed people can be posted at, a polling place"

am i totally misreading it?
 
cato

cato

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TheCiscoKid wrote:
guys, i may be reading it totally wrong, but i'm not interpreting it the same way you guys are. it seems to me that it's broken up into TWO categories, both of which are illegal.


am i totally misreading it?
Click to expand...


You are correct there are twogroups subject to the lawand the uniformedgroup does not have to be armed to be in violation. But botharerequired to be stationed or posted to complete the elements of the crime.

Read it like this and notice the comma before "who":

CALIFORNIA CODES
ELECTIONS CODE

18544. (a) Any person in possession of a firearm

or any uniformed
peace officer, private guard, or security personnel or any person who
is wearing a uniform of a peace officer, guard, or security
personnel,

who is stationed in the immediate vicinity of, or posted
at, a polling place without written authorization of the appropriate
city or county elections official is punishable by a...
Click to expand...


If you are registered to vote at that polling place and you are there only for as much time as it takes to vote I don't see how this applies to that voter.


This is not legal advise.
 
C

CA_Libertarian

State Researcher
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
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Location
Stanislaus County, California, USA
imported post

My interpretation actually lists 3 categories of persons - it's all about placement of the words "or":

18544. (a) Any person in possession of a firearm

or

any uniformed peace officer, private guard, or security personnel [this is a series within the series]

or

any person who is wearing a uniform of a peace officer, guard, or security personnel,

who is stationed in the immediate vicinity of, or posted at, a polling place without written authorization of the appropriate city or county elections official is punishable by...

This last part applies to all 3 categories. The legislature is obviously trying to cover all persons who might be posted at a polling place with this statute. The legislature wants to make sure such stationed/posted persons are not (1) armed, (2) uniformed LE or guards, or (3) impersonating LE or guards.

Of course, this sort of sentence structure would earn a solid "F" in any English class, even in CA public schools. Sadly, this is one of the better articulated statutes I've seen.
 
demnogis

demnogis

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Messages
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Location
Orange County, California, USA
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Be cautious as there are many polling places "just close enough" to a school, or even on school grounds. My old polling place had two options for my county:
1) In the gymnasium of my old highschool.
2) The church auditorium which was right across the street from #1.

Both instances would be illegal.
 
L

LE guy

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Hey guys. The way I'm reading it, it seems that this whole section is intended to protect voters from intimidation (since this section does fall under the"Intimidation of Voters" section). So unless you go there armed and stand around; in or out of uniform; without consent, it should not be an issue for you to go and vote while OC'ing. But as mentioned earlier, keep in mind where the polling place is.

Not legal advice.

:celebratePeanut butter jelly time!
 
T

Theseus

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LE guy wrote:
Hey guys. The way I'm reading it, it seems that this whole section is intended to protect voters from intimidation (since this section does fall under the"Intimidation of Voters" section). So unless you go there armed and stand around; in or out of uniform; without consent, it should not be an issue for you to go and vote while OC'ing. But as mentioned earlier, keep in mind where the polling place is.

Not legal advice.

:celebratePeanut butter jelly time!
Click to expand...

I do have to agree with this. I belive the statute was more trying to prevent the illusion that the current power was trying to exert or influence peoples' vote or even prevent people from voting through means of intimidation. .

I.e. the local sheriff is up for re-election and he has sheriffs standing at each polling place looking for a reason to prevent someone from voting for the opponent.
 
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